Has the Patriot Act affected you?

Someone asked me that on another forum, those kinds of questions have been circulating on forums a lot lately. Mostly by conservatives who support the USA PATRIOT Act. It seems people may not be aware of what the act entails, or why else would they ask that question? The Patriot Act could plausibly be affecting any of us, at any given time, and we may not know it.

While saying all civil liberties should be upheld the Patriot Act enforced efforts to take those rights away to supposedly protect your safety.

The act is stated to give the US government more power in relation to protecting the US from terrorism; terrorism, an “act” that has an ambiguous, multi-interpretational definition. So the US government can protect the country from this act that fits several different actions and meanings many US laws have been changed.

Thanks to the act government officials can go into your home, search it, and don’t even have to tell you they were there. (For those who don’t know what a gross infringement of human rights this is I beg that you read the Fourth Amendment. I think you’d be a lot happier with the rights it gave us versus the ones the Patriot Act took away)

Thanks to the act government officials can take non-citizens into custody and hold them indefinitely if they are charged. This might not seem like a big deal if you are a citizen, unless you have a romantic partner, friend, or family member living in the US who is not a citizen, this person can be charged with minor evidence, pertaining to which ever broad definition of domestic terrorism the government seems fit and held indefinitely. Even more disturbingly another Patriotic Act is being pondered as we speak that would give US officials the right to take away an American’s citizenship even if you were born in the US and have never left the country, or have no citizenship somewhere else. Whatever they deem you did to aid terrorist (which could include something trivial like letting someone you didn’t know was a terrorist use your phone to make a call) can lead to them stripping your citizenship, presumably so they can hold a once citizen indefinitely as well.

Thanks to the act making “domestic terrorism” a crime, with a vague definition, activist exercising their right to protest can be infringed upon if their efforts are deemed “intimidating”, especially if they are protesting against government policy. Let’s hope none of us disagree with the government on anything, including a second Patriotic Act that would allow government officials to wire-tap us for seven days with out a warrant, and let us hope if we do disagree we do not shout or march our protest in a way they interpret as “intimidating”. (Infringing on 1st Amendment rights)

Thanks to the act the FBI can put surveillance on and target religious and political groups with out evidence of wrong doing; which could lead to the FBI harassing activists who take issue with government policy (Abolishing COINTELPO regulations). (Infringing on 1st Amendment rights)

Thanks to the act someone may be made a witness against themselves, infringing on 5th Amendment rights.

Thanks to the act you can be denied due process of law if the CIA (combined with the attorney general and defense secretary) chooses to label you, if you are a citizen or non-citizen, as an “enemy combatant”. If you are given this label it could infringe upon your right to have a speedy, public trial with an impartial jury.

The list goes on, read the act (with assistance if necessary) to help you fully comprehend its affect on your rights. (The Patriot Act infringes on the rights given to you by the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 8th amendments of the Bill of Rights.)

The US government used 9/11 as an excuse to infringe on several of our rights. Can America truly be called a free country when something like the Patriotic Act was passed here, put into practice, and has since refused being amended despite several bills that if passed would better protect individual rights while giving leeway to the federal government to go after those who plan to commit terrorist crimes? If you don’t think the Patriot Act affects you, it could be doing so right now or in the future, and now or then you may not even know it.



en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.amnestyusa.org...
www.aclu.org...
www.bordc.org...



[edit on 14-9-2008 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

Well, like most Americans, I have not blown anything up, except a trip to the reservation to light off some Indian fireworks.

I think if you don't blow sh** up, the patriot act doesn't really matter.

If a bunch of pre pubescent retards are going to label me for Indian fireworks, there is a very serious problem with those in charge and we need to look a Freud's direct quotes to determine what is wrong with them.

Its a check with no balance and needs to go to SCOTUS before those tards ruin lives over nothing.

Go after the Muslim extremists, and leave us US citizens alone.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by Illahee]

While working at my nephew's tax service, we were doing taxes for military personel overseas. Our overseas location was in Dublin. The taxes would be prepared there, and then email to us in the US, and we processed the checks to the personel. We also did money tranfers for Western Union, and took in bill payments.

We followed every rule of the Patriot Act regarding money transfers and doing taxes for military, yet Homeland Security felt it was neccessary to freeze all the business accounts while they performed a 2 year long investigation into our business. We went out of business. My nephew lost everything, his home, car, credit cards, ect. They threatned him with federal time, he was terrified even though he knew he had not done anything wrong.

2 years later, he got a letter in the mail, certified of course, letting him know the investigation had cleared him of any wrongdoing.

It was the Patriot Act that started this investigation, because of money transfer.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by space cadet]

reply to post by Illahee

I think if you don't blow sh** up, the patriot act doesn't really matter.

The OP made an intelligent argument on why it does affect us all. As far as I am aware there is no wording in the Patriot Act that specifies it is only going to be used against people who blow stuff up.

Let's get one thing clear a stated intention on a piece of legislation offers no legal protection if and/ or when that act is used contrary to its stated intention.

Has the patriot act affected me? yes it has.

Who exactly are these patriot act idiots? Lets put a F****NG name and face on these retards and publicize what they are doing to people!

Losing your business over patriot act panty queens is a disgrace to the flag and the constitution, and bill of rights.


[edit on 14-9-2008 by Illahee]

Originally posted by harvib
reply to post by Illahee

 

I think if you don't blow sh** up, the patriot act doesn't really matter.

The OP made an intelligent argument on why it does affect us all. As far as I am aware there is no wording in the Patriot Act that specifies it is only going to be used against people who blow stuff up.

Let's get one thing clear a stated intention on a piece of legislation offers no legal protection if and/ or when that act is used contrary to its stated intention.

So your saying that any high school drop out they hire to help enforce the act, may decide how invasive its going to be?

Its time to kick in their doors and bring all of their papers into the streets for the common citizen to read and look over. SCOTUS needs to do their fn jobs and defend the bill of rights or get cleaned out and a fresh start. With a 22% approval rating they better watch where they p*** or they may get the 78% that don't approve shoved down their throats.

Yes, shrub and weenie are toast. We can say what we want now.

So your saying that any high school drop out they hire to help enforce the act, may decide how invasive its going to be?

Within the parameters of the act, yes.

Its time to kick in their doors and bring all of their papers into the streets for the common citizen to read and look over.

No need to kick in doors you can read the Patriot Act for your self online.

SCOTUS needs to do their fn jobs and defend the bill of rights or get cleaned out and a fresh start.

Agreed. However indivduals need to do thier part by reading legislation and understanding how it may affect them.

Its kept anymore of my fellow Americans from being slaughtered, so yes its affected me. If you're asking if I ever known anyone or had to deal with the act personally, the answer is no.

Its kept anymore of my fellow Americans from being slaughtered

The act may have protected Americans, but it has also horrifyingly impacted the lives of Americans and non-citizens with out just cause. The act needs to be held accountable for this, as does its creators, and it needs to be amended to protect our rights as has been directly proposed by many politicians, they have even presented the out lines for the amendments. This would be far better than creating a second Patriot Act that gives the government some of the rights I mentioned in my first post, like wire taping you for a week with out a warrant or stripping you of your US citizenship. And the scariest thing is they can do either with very little evidence, either will be acceptable if they deem you suspicious or deem you compliant with domestic terrorism.

Its time to kick in their doors and bring all of their papers into the streets for the common citizen to read and look over.

I agree a transparent government is important in a free society, if you don't really know what your government is doing behind closed doors how do you truly know you're free? We’ve been controlled for years in subtle ways we do not notice. Unfortunately there is little that indicates people will fight back any time soon.

Anyway your post reminded me of this video:

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage
The Patriot Act effects us all and what a great post.

Yes I was aware of this because Naomi Wolf talks about this at great length in both her books, "The End of America" and "Give Me Liberty".

Again, Great post, starred and flagged.

Another example of The Bush Administration taking more liberties with our Constitution.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by ofhumandescent]

Due to National Security reasons, I will probably never know as to what extent the Patriot Act has affected me.

I doubt if they will tell me if they are monitoring my computer or phone or that they have somebody tagging me around.

But I have a feeling that just being a part of this site has increased my chances of being tagged. Only time will tell.

nationalistic patriot BS over the last 8years has effected me alright. It appears folks have mistaken patriotism for nationalism. The difference? One doesnt follow its government to a hole of lies regardless and for partisan reasons.

Originally posted by southern_Guardian
nationalistic patriot BS over the last 8years has effected me alright. It appears folks have mistaken patriotism for nationalism. The difference? One doesnt follow its government to a hole of lies regardless and for partisan reasons.

Exactly. The government has successfully confused millions. They no longer understand what terrorism, terrorist, patriot, patriotism means. The government is successfully fueling an us against them mentality, they count on our ignorance and our fear of what is foreign to us. As long as people feel safe and comfortable many will not question the Patriot Act, until they see that though they are safe and comfortable it could be affecting them they won’t give a crap.

I made another post about this mentality that I fear recently:

Once Voice, One Message (divided we fail, again)

www.abovetopsecret.com...

excellent thread OP!!

more people need to see this....

read this...

understand it fully...

and star.....

and flag....

Okay, I got sucked into this, clicked one too many links. But now that I'm here, I'll put my two cents in.


Freedom was never intended to be safe. Safety and Freedom seldom go hand in hand.

As an analogy,
"The cage is safe, the wolves are out, but you're locked in.
The field allows you to run, but so too can the wolves."
(Like it? Just made it up... bored I am.)


Many countries have attempted to increase their "safety"... their track records speak for themselves. Usually ending with a dictator treating his people like complete garbage.


The United States has two choices.

Freedom : Everyone gets to remain free, but at the cost of those who wish harm to slip through the cracks.

Safety : Chances are anyone who wants to do harm will be stopped... but you lose all control over the government, along with your rights. God help you if a future government gets greedy.


Every time your government talks about safety... just ask yourself one thing, "Who's safety? The peoples? Or the governments?"

Anyways, just go through the history of pretty much every dictatorship in history. Almost every dictatorship became that way because they wanted more safety... and were willing to get it by handing over their rights and freedoms.
Sometimes it's done with good intentions.
But it always ends badly.

Don't take my word for it though. If the Patriot Act isn't destroyed, someone is going to use it for selfish power, then you'll get to witness a dictatorship first hand.

History, it's always in the making.


(Aside : By the way rapinrabbits... your mode of speech, mannerisms, and ideals are disturbingly similar to mine. Sometimes it's as though I'm talking to myself. I'm often noticing myself on other threads thinking "She beat me to it again!".)

[edit on 7-1-2009 by johnsky]

reply to post by johnsky


I agree history shows us the dire mistakes we are making now, great post. But we humans tend to repeat ourselves; I think we’re inherently repetitive.

(Aside : By the way rapinrabbits... your mode of speech, mannerisms, and ideals are disturbingly similar to mine. Sometimes it's as though I'm talking to myself. I'm often noticing myself on other threads thinking "She beat me to it again!".)

I noticed as well, a bit eerie, but I never shy away from the uncanny so I’ll embrace the weirdness that is our parallels and hope it continues. Sometimes I feel like you steal the words from my lips, but you’re far more laid back and level headed than I am. You’re actually more like I wish I could be, sometimes.

Hell yes, the Patriot act is the beginning of the end of Freedom and liberty in America. More Americans have been terrorized by Homeland Security and the Border Patrol than any terrorist residing outside the U.S.

The only ones who support it are ignorant traitors, & those who financially benefit from it.

Anyone & everyone who supports the Patriot act is an enemy of the American people as far as I'm concerned.

I'm sure if suicide bombs had been going off at Churches, Temples and Starbucks for the past 8 years, people would be crying "Why haven't our leaders done anything to protect us?! The Bush administration is a failure!!!" Is it such a far stretch of the imagination to believe that most people in the Bush administration, FBI, CIA, NSA and black projects genuinely want to keep you safe?( I remind you that this post was in "Political Issues")