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Evidence that supports past life on mars

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posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by Phage

No, they use that bad old thing called science. That thing that takes time and effort. That thing that takes training. That thing that requires evidence.


You are absolutely right, scientists use that bad old thing called evidence. So perhaps you should read the post I made just a little above yours in this thread?
That post was about scientific finds and evidence. Based on those bad old things, some scientists think there is life on Mars.




posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by ziggystar60
 


Haha well said brother. Btw great thread.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by ziggystar60

That post was about scientific finds and evidence. Based on those bad old things, some scientists think there is life on Mars.



Exactly. That's is one reason so much money is being spent. To find evidence of the life that some (more probably, many) scientists think may be (or has been) there. They (we) are looking for that evidence. With all the training, and equipment, and really, really smart people looking, no evidence has yet been found on Mars. I'm not saying it won't be found, many scientists aren't saying it won't be found. But it hasn't been found, yet.

Do you really believe that all these "evidences" of civilization would (or could) be covered up, hidden, if that's what they were? Why would they do that? It's one of the primary purposes for having a presence there. Or do you think the scientists are too stupid to recognize it, if that's what these "things" really are? Do you really think the highly trained people studying the raw data aren't capable of finding what it is they are looking for? That these self-styled "investigators" can do a better job?

It's OK. Keep patting each other on the back. High Fives!

[edit on 14-9-2008 by Phage]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 


Hi, Phage, perhaps we are not talking about the same thing?

The post I made was not about earlier or present intelligent life on Mars, it was about life in the form of microbes and bacteria. And since you claim that scientists haven't found any proof of life on Mars yet, I wanted to show you that your claim is not entirely correct. There ARE some scientists who believe there is life on the planet, based on scientific finds and evidence. That is a fact, and has to be taken into consiceration when we discuss these things.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by ziggystar60
 



So far the only thing that gets close to evidence is that which was found on Meteorite ALH84001. The three things that some consider indications of life (polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, carbonate globules, and tiny thingies) are far from being generally accepted as definitive evidence of past life on Mars. It was however, this very intriguing find that gave the exploration of Mars a boost (hurray!).

To go from the possible existence of life on Mars 16 million years ago to current or even past intelligent life, is a very great leap. Possible? I suppose so. But to think that gross evidence of current or past civilization on Mars is being missed or hidden is absurd. To disallow alternate, dissenting viewpoints to this "evidence of past life", which is actually an attempt to claim evidence of civilization, is pathetic. It is that attitude that turns me off completely. That attitude is the antithesis of the spirit of scientific investigation and research. Go ahead, play your games. But don't tell me that I shouldn't tell you there are other, natural explanations for what you think you see.

Edit: Ziggy, I'm not putting you in with that bunch (unless you think I should).


[edit on 14-9-2008 by Phage]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 


Since you wrote your post as a direct reply to me, I want to clear up a misunderstanding on your part:

I do not play games here at ATS. I have no time for games. I am only interested in finding the truth. That was why I posted some info and links that I think is relevant to this discussion.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by ziggystar60
 


Actually, my original post was not a reply to you. You took exception to that post, then I replied to you.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 





No, they use that bad old thing called science. That thing that takes time and effort. That thing that takes training. That thing that requires evidence


And since the members of this forum are not able to go visit Mars to see for themselves, or get the pictures (and not the hi res ones) before MSSS gets their dirty little paws on them, nor access to any instruments that would allow us to determine what is actually on the planet....your comment makes little sense, except in your argument with marsfanmag.

All any of us have are tampered, low res, insanely grainy, bad lighting, crappy angle, sanitized motherf'n pix.

So tell me man, should we let that discourage us from searching for the truth? Do we throw our hands in the air (and wave 'em like you just don't care!...oops, sorry, just had to..) and give up? Or maybe we should keep our mouths shut until we earn our PhD and know what we are really talking about?

If you say yes to any of those, weak sauce man...all we can do, both skeptics and believers, is try to look at these pictures rationally and have discussions in an attempt to 'determine' what it is - rock or tooled structure.




"Wow, I've never seen anything like that before. I don't know what that is but it must be artificial! Those scientists know it. They're just hiding it!"


Your generalization in regards to those that believe and their reactions is a crappy one at best...do I need to continue telling you why...? U2U me if you have problems with this one man.





I have a great deal on some land in Florida. Want to hear more?


Not original and lacks wit...



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by chapter29
reply to post by Phage
All any of us have are tampered, low res, insanely grainy, bad lighting, crappy angle, sanitized motherf'n pix.
Not exactly, there are some very good photos.

Some of the photos some people say show fossils are very good, but as the objects are small people usually resize them to exaggerated sizes and use JPEG files instead of the (much) better quality, IMG files.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 



I would agree, but that is not what I was trying to convey; and it is the photos that may show structures I was alluding to, not fossils. And there are some good ones of those as well, but the reply was a generalization (and an accurate one IMO) in order to point out that what we have to work with is 2nd hand...

I'm sure you may see it differently, but your opinion wasn't a factor until now...

Either way, thanks for the input.



Edit to point out that this is the 29th post!




[edit on 9/15/2008 by chapter29]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by chapter29
So tell me man, should we let that discourage us from searching for the truth? Do we throw our hands in the air (and wave 'em like you just don't care!...oops, sorry, just had to..) and give up? Or maybe we should keep our mouths shut until we earn our PhD and know what we are really talking about?

If you say yes to any of those, weak sauce man...all we can do, both skeptics and believers, is try to look at these pictures rationally and have discussions in an attempt to 'determine' what it is - rock or tooled structure.



  1. No, I'm not trying to discourage anything. My post was in response to complaints about skeptics raining on the parade of those claiming to have found "proof". My post was in favor of searching for the truth by allowing criticism of the evidence presented as proof of "life on Mars".
  2. Hell no, don't give up. I never even hinted that. But don't tell me (as the post I was responding to did) that I shouldn't throw in my two cents. Don't tell me I don't have just as much reason to say; "it's a rock" as you have to say, "it's a machined artifact".
  3. Again, talking about it is fine. It's fun. But don't disregard what those with PhD's tell us about what we're seeing just because you think they're lying to us (still haven't heard a reasonable explanation of why they would), or because you think they're too stupid to see what's so obvious to you.



SuperSlovak:
Mysterious boulders, strange pyramids, amazing city-like structures and startling, unexplained "glass worms" are all a part of the enigmatic landscape of the Red Planet. But was there life on mars before? Is there life there now? You can bet your life there is.



SuperSlovak:
There already is microbial life on mars,



HanyouSpirit:
there is alot of evidence that mars was and may still be a populated planet.



SuperSlovak:
thanks guys, and your right I forgot to mention the lakes and forests and buildings on mars


You said it yourself, there is no physical proof. But you want me to just roll over and let the backslappers go on about their great "finds"? The proclamations that these things absolutely, positively have to be artificial?


SuperSlovak:
when you see a rock with a RECTAGULAR DOORWAY carved into it then that just cant be natural especially if its on another planet.

Especially if it's on another planet??? What???

And then there's this gem, the one that set me off.


MarsFanMag:
As long as you lot will run to every single one of our discovery threads or attempts of, all you'll do is discourage the rest of the readers who must be so hesitant in registering, I think it's a purpose, just like we saw paid-posters for a recent case in Portugal and GB. We all knew in the end that they were paid, although these deny, of course, but it was so obvious.

Yes! Absolutely! I'm getting paid to offer alternative explanations! I'm fabulously wealthy! Us skeptics want to limit the membership of ATS to...skeptics. What fun would that be?

Edit: to add "credits"

[edit on 15-9-2008 by Phage]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by chapter29
reply to post by Phage
 


All any of us have are tampered, low res, insanely grainy, bad lighting, crappy angle, sanitized motherf'n pix.


LMAO! Tell it how it is my friend! I couldnt describe it better if I tried! So we make do with what we've got...

Shame your an Arsenal fan though!



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 


I feel so dirty having my comments mingled with the others in your reply...


Skeptics are needed, and I have commented on that quite a few times...check my pro out if you think I'm changing tunes.




Again, talking about it is fine. It's fun. But don't disregard what those with PhD's tell us about what we're seeing just because you think they're lying to us (still haven't heard a reasonable explanation of why they would), or because you think they're too stupid to see what's so obvious to you.


Where did this come from? Anyways, a REASONABLE explanation as to why they would lie to us? Look man, do you lead the sheeple by example or just do what is necessary for your agenda? Just about every country has $hit on their own people in the name of nationalism at one time or another...what makes the space program more righteous?



or because you think they're too stupid to see what's obvious to you


Your assumptions are crap, unless this came from someone else and you forgot to mention that...

Either way, you, myself and the rest of the gang don't know; but each of us is allowed their opinion, as asinine as it may be...
See 2 posts above.


[edit on 9/15/2008 by chapter29]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 06:47 PM
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WATER is the basic building block for life, correct? okay,
here I present to you ice and water on mars.

mars ice cap

mars ice

mars lake

mars lake

mars forest

mars forest

comon now phage doesnt that give you a slight suggestion there can be life there?



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 07:09 PM
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HI Lee_K! ;-]


///


PHAGE, i hope you asked BOB GELDORF if it's OK TO USE HIS PHOTOGRAPH FOR your own benefit?
wow I was coming to discuss these photos, so I won't waste my time replying to your long protest post. Think what you want, that's what discussion-boards are for, the funny thing being, that if you hate discussing "rocks" so much why do you try so hard though? Surely there would be some other threads more of your interest.

///
These samples are very puzzling, especially the one that looks like a manufactured part with 3 identical "tubes" and holes, the whole shape is very curious.

Instantly these photos reminded me of a video from Doowop(+a #), You Tube, who found crushed beings under the Rover's wheels , by studying the photos up-close, and even some trying to "disable the rover" as he says--and well seems to show OK!. at first I thought that these vids were a joke but it stuck in my mind. When we connect them with these photos a feeling of positive curiousity arouses.

Beside by reading other threads it would "slightly" appear that it's not the first time someone spotted curious things on Mars. I'm sorry but a cut in a wall that leads to a statue (or else) and something like a being or bones of one next to it isn't exactly what I call usual works of geology, at St.Vincent .
"EGYPTIAN STATUE ON MARS?" thread.

There are quite a few other threads etc that well shed light on possible evidence of structures and life on MARS.

Of course quarking ducks on a day out don't see much further than one inch ahead of them and make funny sounds like Rrocks!! Rrocks!!

If /WHEN the statues get proved as such and showed in the news channels of their TELEVISION-SETS the sound would expectedly change to a hysterical Statuuuu! squeak though, and I can't imagine a duck-sound at the surprise- evidence of pyramids...more like, a strangled choking Squaark this time, any ideas?




posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by chapter29
reply to post by Phage
 

I feel so dirty having my comments mingled with the others in your reply...


I don't think I included any of your comments in the "rogue's gallery". I've edited that post to provide proper credits.




Skeptics are needed, and I have commented on that quite a few times...check my pro out if you think I'm changing tunes.

The post of mine which you responded to was not aimed at those who realize this.




Where did this come from? Anyways, a REASONABLE explanation as to why they would lie to us? Look man, do you lead the sheeple by example or just do what is necessary for your agenda? Just about every country has $hit on their own people in the name of nationalism at one time or another...what makes the space program more righteous?

It comes from the ones to whom my post was directed. I have no doubt that our government and its agencies lie to us when there is something to be gained by it. Why would they hide evidence of life on Mars? There would be much prestige ($$) to be gained if and when evidence of life is found. Look what even the ambiguous evidence of the meteorite did for the Mars programs.




Your assumptions are crap, unless this came from someone else and you forgot to mention that...

Either way, you, myself and the rest of the gang don't know; but each of us is allowed their opinion, as asinine as it may be...

Since your your first response was to my post, I did assume (wrongly) that you are in the boat of "the others" who would have skepticism go away. Apologies.


[edit on 15-9-2008 by Phage]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by MarsFanMag

PHAGE, i hope you asked BOB GELDORF if it's OK TO USE HIS PHOTOGRAPH FOR your own benefit?


I love it! Here is a serious photographic "analyst" who authoritatively misidentifies a clear photo of a living human being.

Anyway, I thought you wanted discussion. Sometimes discussion involves more than one point of view. Sometimes discussion involves criticism. If all you do is agree, you don't get anywhere.



Originally posted by SarielDCLXVI reply to post by SuperSlovak

So do you really think that well after the surface of earth has been wiped clean of all evidence of real civilization, there might still be a car part or two laying around o the surface for some reason? I do not understand what all these threads showing lonely little objects that are very open to interpretation prove anything. I understand how they could lead to interesting speculation but seriosuly, proof? Bring a part back and maybe you have something but I find it hard to believe the fossilized bacteria are running around building lament cubes and radiators just to toss around randomly on the surface.


With this:



Originally posted by MarsFanMag

What sort of ignorance do you lot extra-sceptics aim to "deny"? Your own?! Do you actually try to study Mars? Do you search? You have to study these things in their globality, and do a bit of work before you rush to criticise DECENT work! Of course SuperSlovak doesn't stop at snippets or isolated objects, have you read his other threads or posts?

Doesn't sound like you appreciate discussion much.

[edit on 15-9-2008 by Phage]

[edit on 15-9-2008 by Phage]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 07:23 PM
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phage there is water on mars and living organisms need water so there is a possibility something is there.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by SuperSlovak
phage there is water on mars and living organisms need water so there is a possibility something is there.


I'm glad to see you've changed your tune from this:


But was there life on mars before? Is there life there now? You can bet your life there is.



Of course there is H20 on Mars. There is ice, there is water vapor. We've known about it for a long time. There is ice just about everywhere we look for it. It's on other planets and moons. There is water vapor in interstellar space. H20 is not rare!
There may even be liquid water on Mars. There is strong evidence that there once was but we haven't found any yet. Because of the current atmospheric conditions, if there ever is any water on the surface, it won't be there very long.

Yes! There is a possibility there once was and may even still be life on Mars. We have not found any evidence of current life. Yes water is a building block of life as we know it but it takes a lot more than one block to build a building.

[edit on 15-9-2008 by Phage]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by SuperSlovak
 


Although the first example has been identified as water ice on that crater, the "lakes" were not (as far as I know) identified, so they could be water or anything else, Mars also has CO2 ice deposits, for example.

The trees are not trees, they are ground features, spider-like cracks on the ground.

As they say on that site to which you posted a link, now (since the end of 2006) we have a high resolution camera taking photos of Mars, and it has showed that those are not trees. Unfortunately, that site has not been updated with that (and other) more recent data.



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