Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Look at the Mujahadeen. They never went head-to-head with the Soviet forces and won. If they had gone head-to-head, they would've been slaughtered.

This is what's called a "specific example" which even if speaking generally does not relate in the slightest to what we have going on in America. They are "generally" different things. NOW, that being said, if you are trying to point out that you can't always take a bull by the horns then fine (although fairly obvious). Although they didn't do it civil war style, they still fought in their own ways. They did not prescribe not "giving a #", otherwise they would have gotten nowhere.

Seems that there's more people who don't give a crap than people who really care or we wouldn't be in the situation that we are in. Our political system sucks because of us. Why? Because we didn't do anything to change things and it just gets worse for us. We are all guilty of sitting around doing nothing and not caring...go about our everyday lives(go to work ,come home, make dinner,watch tv and go to bed and do it all over again). We have a choice but we are complacent with what we have. Don't get me wrong....I would live no other place than the good old USA. Support our troops....I do.

Originally posted by Amuk
I agree 100% if you are to scared or lazy or stupid to fight for your freedom than be a slave and quit whining about it.

And if you are stupid enough to try to knock down a car by running into it, then you won't even have to whine because you're dead.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo

Originally posted by Amuk
I agree 100% if you are to scared or lazy or stupid to fight for your freedom than be a slave and quit whining about it.

And if you are stupid enough to try to knock down a car by running into it, then you won't even have to whine because you're dead.

Then be a slave and quit whining about it

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Oh, let me count the ways.

- I vote in all elections (yes even the small local ones)
- I speakout when and where I can if things are not right
- I get involved in my community
- I read, learn, and research
- I write my elected officials if I have concerns or to let them know what my position is
- I support the NRA and the Second Amendment as often as possible.
- I support Pro-Life orginazations
- I served my country

- And most importantly, I debate to 1) get my voice out there, and 2) to engage in the free exchange of ideas
[Edited on 28-3-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]

Great job. It's nice to see you're willing to work for what you believe in. Fortunately, you aren't as unwise as I imagined, since you don't seem to want to go toe-to-toe with a giant.

However, I don't see how it's "bad" to not utilize the freedoms we have. For one thing, this is a by-and-large free nation. That means we are free to use our rights however we'd like. If we want to debate, fine. If we don't want to, that's fine also. You've implied that not using our rights is a "bad" thing.

It's our own lives, and as disappointed as you may be, you cannot tell people it's bad of them not to use their rights. Some people realize that debating can sometimes lead in circles. Sure, you can use your "at least we'll get somewhere" arguement, but why settle for anything less than what you aimed for?

Originally posted by I See You
Seems that there's more people who don't give a crap than people who really care or we wouldn't be in the situation that we are in. Our political system sucks because of us. Why? Because we didn't do anything to change things and it just gets worse for us. We are all guilty of sitting around doing nothing and not caring...go about our everyday lives(go to work ,come home, make dinner,watch tv and go to bed and do it all over again). We have a choice but we are complacent with what we have. Don't get me wrong....I would live no other place than the good old USA. Support our troops....I do.

The thing is, we have to be smart about the situation. Right now is not a time to give a crap about the government and what it does. It holds too much power and influence that it really doesn't matter how much you try to change it. It won't.

Just wait until this Richard Clarke deal is blown wide open (if it ever does). Then it's time to give a #.

Originally posted by Amuk
Then be a slave and quit whining about it

Hey, you can be the slave, not me, thank you. Since you like the concept, you'd be a really good slave too!

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
This is what's called a "specific example" which even if speaking generally does not relate in the slightest to what we have going on in America. They are "generally" different things. NOW, that being said, if you are trying to point out that you can't always take a bull by the horns then fine (although fairly obvious). Although they didn't do it civil war style, they still fought in their own ways. They did not prescribe not "giving a #", otherwise they would have gotten nowhere.

Nice try once more. I was referring to how you made it out to be that I was using two specifically different things, which I wasn't. I was talking about the concept, not the events themselves.

So forget details about the Soviet-Afghan War, by reading my post you'll see I was talking about the CONCEPT, not the inner-workings of the situation.

In reference to your final paragraph, I'm confused. You first say that the Soviet-Afghan War has nothing to do with what's going on in America (irrelevant, but I'm trying to understand where you're coming from). Yet in that final paragraph, you say that they "did give a s**t." So in affect, you are agreeing with me. The situations were specifically different, but the concept was the same. Fight a giant by being a prick.

[Edited on 28-3-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]

[Edited on 28-3-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo

Originally posted by Amuk
Then be a slave and quit whining about it

Hey, you can be the slave, not me, thank you. Since you like the concept, you'd be a really good slave too!

No thanks I am all ready married

SWEAT,
You are correct in that you can choose inaction if you wish.
However, by doing nothing, you more empower those that have the power you would oppose, as you dont resist....
and well, i love it when others abdicate their choice to me and others....

Originally posted by Amuk
No thanks I am all ready married

Then I guess that's settled then! You've decided to decline your own offer. It's all good!

Originally posted by CazMedia
SWEAT,
You are correct in that you can choose inaction if you wish.
However, by doing nothing, you more empower those that have the power you would oppose, as you dont resist....
and well, i love it when others abdicate their choice to me and others....

Be smart about it. Don't do something just because you believe in "fighting for it." If you aren't wise about it, you'll get burned.

I resist when the time is right. That's all I'll say.

I wish you the best of everything in your "resistance."

give me liberty, or give me death....(smart choice?? worth it?)

No risk, no gain.....

you cant win if you dont enter...

the greater the danger, the bigger the rewards....

the best things in life arent free......

you cant trust freedom when its not in your hands, when everybody's fighting for the promised land. (G+R)

You seem to be saying, only resist if you can...resistance in the face of danger is noble, it is what distinguishes a hero from a soldier.

If the cause is worth fighting for in the first place, then weather or not your approach to it is a smart tactic or not, the resistance is worth fighting for....only the tactics are in question, not the need for resistance.

will you as a marine, refuse to obey a direct order to "take that hill" when you feel that the odds say your gonna die? Thats what it sounds like your saying would be acceptable. It doesnt matter if you think a frontal assault is wise/logical/workable...indeed it may not be, but thats not for you to decide as a front line soldier is it? Mabey you dont have the big picture fronm the front lines...your cmdr is relying on your sworn duty to carry out the order, not debate it/disobey. So when your officer tels you you dont know sh-t, and you dont even need to know sh-t just take the hill soldier...based on what youve said about when you feel its time to resist or not to, i picture you going awol or being shot for dissertion.

If your enemy is worth fighting, then even tho THIS battle might not be a success, the overall war might be won.

Originally posted by CazMedia
If the cause is worth fighting for in the first place, then weather or not your approach to it is a smart tactic or not, the resistance is worth fighting for....only the tactics are in question, not the need for resistance.

I think this is all you needed to say. The fight is what is noble. The tactics are negotiable and will differ between people, but the fight is what matters.

Doing nothing is not a tactic, it is exemption and is fairly selfish.

As for you enjoying the rights you have, good on ya. Have a blast, but I think it's rather shaming for you to trounce what people have worked hard to give you.

If you were black or a woman I'd be much harder on you though

CazMedia,

Your point is well taken.

Originally posted by CazMedia
i picture you going awol or being shot for dissertion.

For some reason, I kinda see this happening to you. Don't know, maybe that's a good reason you never joined the military?

That's all. Dismissed dude.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
If you were black or a woman I'd be much harder on you though

Explain the above quote please. But as a sidenote, you were never "hard" on me. I said many times, you can believe whatever you want, right or wrong. Since I realize that, there is no reason for me to feel pressured in any way by what you say. Of course I'll listen/discuss/think, but I don't need to feel any sort of commitment to think of it as a life-changing lesson, especially since it isn't. Just thought I'd clear that up.

Anyway, your points are well taken. I think this thread showed the limitations of discussion on a message board as opposed to face-to-face. It's so much harder to write things clearly than to say things clearly sometimes.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Explain the above quote please. But as a sidenote, you were never "hard" on me. I said many times, you can believe whatever you want, right or wrong. Since I realize that, there is no reason for me to feel pressured in any way by what you say. Of course I'll listen/discuss/think, but I don't need to feel any sort of commitment to think of it as a life-changing lesson, especially since it isn't. Just thought I'd clear that up.

Obviously.

Anyway, your points are well taken. I think this thread showed the limitations of discussion on a message board as opposed to face-to-face. It's so much harder to write things clearly than to say things clearly sometimes.

True enough. Anyway, to expound. If you were a woman or a black person, you would be the shame of those who fought (literally) to give you the right you squandered. And not 200 years ago, but fairly recently.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Here's advice. You want to live happy, fulfilling, lives? Drop your politics and let the government do whatever it wants. You can't do anything about it, so why bother? In the long run, you will accomplish more by not being involved. Don't protest (they'll just send you to jail to be profiled), don't vote (they'll just throw it away). Just help society. That's all you need to do, help other people.

Look at it this way: if the U.S. screws up, it's not your fault. You did everything right.

This is the wrong way to believe, and unfortunately it is the way many in the U.S. do. This is why our government gets away with a lot is because of lazy Americans just ignoring the problem. Your bit of advice is bad advice.

Originally posted by EliteXizer
This is the wrong way to believe, and unfortunately it is the way many in the U.S. do. This is why our government gets away with a lot is because of lazy Americans just ignoring the problem. Your bit of advice is bad advice.

Not ignore the problem. Acknowledge the problem and accept the fact things are screwed. Until you get an opportunity to bring them down, at least.