Some advice: Just don't give a s**t

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Seriously, I think some of you are really caught up in the fantasy the government actually cares about what you think. The entire nation could've protested against the Iraq war and we'd have still gone to war.

Here's advice. You want to live happy, fulfilling, lives? Drop your politics and let the government do whatever it wants. You can't do anything about it, so why bother? In the long run, you will accomplish more by not being involved. Don't protest (they'll just send you to jail to be profiled), don't vote (they'll just throw it away). Just help society. That's all you need to do, help other people.

Look at it this way: if the U.S. screws up, it's not your fault. You did everything right.

this country is the way it is. Many sit on their ass and have others make the decisions for them. Then complain when something is not right.

Your tenet is the reason why we are in the mess we are.

That's fine if you want to be the long arm of US policy overseas, but me I wouldn't serve right now.

I'll bet your additude changes after OCS if not, then surely after TBS.

Have fun.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
That's fine if you want to be the long arm of US policy overseas, but me I wouldn't serve right now.

I'll bet your additude changes after OCS if not, then surely after TBS.

Have fun.

Elaborate on why you wouldn't serve right now.

You'd bet? How much? I mean, I think you're expecting too much there. This isn't some ideological phase. This was part of my "awakening." It really caught fire after finishing a book called Tomorrow Now. At the end, it says exactly what I warned against, not going head to head with a giant.

I plan to have fun. Thanks.

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
this country is the way it is. Many sit on their ass and have others make the decisions for them. Then complain when something is not right.

Your tenet is the reason why we are in the mess we are.

But the difference is, and you should've gotten this if you read, I won't be complaining even when something goes wrong. Read the quote by me that you used again. Nowhere did I say I would complain if something went wrong. In fact, I said the complete opposite.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Elaborate on why you wouldn't serve right now.

Sure. I love this country very much. But I do not think that our leadership pool is very good right now and I can not trust that I will be serving the United States. I would not serve in the military of the United States only to be used for non-defense purposes.

You'd bet? How much? I mean, I think you're expecting too much there. This isn't some ideological phase. This was part of my "awakening." It really caught fire after finishing a book called Tomorrow Now. At the end, it says exactly what I warned against, not going head to head with a giant.

I would bet a lot. I've been there an know exactly the environment of the Marine Corps. You are limited in your working knowledge of the world and haven't yet worked to support a family only to have your money taken to support things you hate. You have not had to consider the future for your kids and what ramifications inaction could bring. It's not a put down, but life experience tends to change people greatly.

I plan to have fun. Thanks.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
I would bet a lot. I've been there an know exactly the environment of the Marine Corps. You are limited in your working knowledge of the world and haven't yet worked to support a family only to have your money taken to support things you hate. You have not had to consider the future for your kids and what ramifications inaction could bring. It's not a put down, but life experience tends to change people greatly.

Limited knowledge? Well, the fact that you were in the Marines shows you know how the Marines work, but now that you're a civilian supporting a family, that is your central point. So, what else do you know besides the Marines and the traditional, mainstream America suburban family life?

You imply that having responsibility brings knowledge, but in your case, that's not accurate. If you're saturated with responsibilities and work, then that's your world. Ever wonder why there are so many workaholics?

I have few responsibilities besides studying hard in college and ROTC, but I never attempted to hole myself up in a shell. I always tried to find out what was going on outside of Potomac, Maryland, where I lived in my teens. So it's not age or responsibility necessarily that brings knowledge, it's learning in general that brings knowledge. Just because you're old doesn't mean you learned a thing, and neither does responsibility.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo

Limited knowledge? Well, the fact that you were in the Marines shows you know how the Marines work, but now that you're a civilian supporting a family, that is your central point. So, what else do you know besides the Marines and the traditional, mainstream America suburban family life?

I mean limited by age. I know you college kids think you have seen the real world, but things are much different that you know. Ask Amuk, he's much older than me and a Nam vet.

You imply that having responsibility brings knowledge, but in your case, that's not accurate. If you're saturated with responsibilities and work, then that's your world. Ever wonder why there are so many workaholics?

Knowledge is a fleeting thing. It's experience that makes people change their minds. The world is a vast place, and seeing many lands will change your perspective along with the knowledge you will accumulate along the way.

I have few responsibilities besides studying hard in college and ROTC, but I never attempted to hole myself up in a shell. I always tried to find out what was going on outside of Potomac, Maryland, where I lived in my teens. So it's not age or responsibility necessarily that brings knowledge, it's learning in general that brings knowledge. Just because you're old doesn't mean you learned a thing, and neither does responsibility.

First off, I'm not old. I am only 26 but it's the position I am talking about. You'll change your tune once you go out and actually do something in life, then be told by someone who hasn't that you don't know #.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
I mean limited by age. I know you college kids think you have seen the real world, but things are much different that you know. Ask Amuk, he's much older than me and a Nam vet.

I know how different things are outside our enclaves, so that's a moot point. That's why I learn to listen and learn about what happens, not wait for reality to smack me in the face. That's what being a realist is all about, knowing what's going on and making your decisions off of that. Most people wait (albeit not intentionally) for their hearts to be broken instead of accepting what is what and preparing for the worst.

Knowledge is a fleeting thing. It's experience that makes people change their minds. The world is a vast place, and seeing many lands will change your perspective along with the knowledge you will accumulate along the way.

My perspective did change. It will change. But that doesn't mean it'll change to YOUR liking. And that doesn't mean my position is wrong. In fact, I believe my position is right because it complies with the laws of physics and human nature.

First off, I'm not old. I am only 26 but it's the position I am talking about. You'll change your tune once you go out and actually do something in life, then be told by someone who hasn't that you don't know #.

First off, I have strong, warranted beliefs. Second, if I do do "something" in life, I'll make sure it was worth my time. Third, if someone tells me I don't know #, then whose problem is that? Definitely not mine. If they think I don't know #, that's their prerogative. I can't change my ways just so somebody else is satisfied by it. In other words, if you think you know more than me, then great, I'm happy for you. My objective is not to prove anyone wrong or change people, for that is not any person's responsibility. We all have our own beliefs and I have no right to say everyone else's beliefs are 100% wrong. Maybe you are right. Who knows.

In fact, you'd be surprised at how much I've changed over the past few years. I am not the same person I was in 1999. Obviously, I was an ignorant loser back then, but still, I've changed in ways I never even guessed I would've. I went from U.S. government-gladiator to U.S. government-despiser to U.S. government-can-go-screw-itself. Having grown-up in a semi-abusive household and having more than my fair share of problems in life, I've had more life experience than most my age. It's not something you can get from living in a protective shell. And I'm not boasting, it's just the way it is, and that's that.

[Edited on 24-3-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]

Here's the whole point.

You can run around and have your opinion all day, and you can even try to propogate you ideas to some little play-do brained college kids if you want to.

But truth be told, we don't need you to push your little "Don't do #" agenda because the way things are going, you don't even have to do that.

But for those of us who think it warrents a fight, we are the ones who need to get the word out because we are on the loosing side.

With all the Reality TV keeping people from reality, media bull#, and the like our side is slowly loosing ground (albeit the recent anger over Bush has won a few battles).

But we are TRYING to get people involved, so peddle your wares elsewhere.

SWEAT, ahh i remeber when i was 21...

I never had the courage to join the millitary, (when i was younger i thought i was too smart for that) but give them my respect and support at all times. (somedays i wish i had joined, but back then i was too arrogant)

however, as someone that has studied both social and millitary science, I'm gonna give you this advice

DO NOT JOIN THE MARINES!!! (or any millitary)

With your attitude of, "dont fight the giant" you will make a piss poor marine. WHY? because when your orders are to lead your platoon into a likley fatal assault against the enemy, will you think then "We cant win?"
I want and expect that our fighting, professionally trained soldiers will have a winning attitude, even when faced with seemingly insurmountable odds of success.
otherwise, your not going to instill a lot of faith in your abillities.

The world is flat, man will never fly, the giant is too big to kill david....im glad that people will take on seemingly impossible things...its part of humanities gifts...sometimes we even do the impossible.

P.S.
I love most of the lazy, do nothing, dont take a stand fellow citizens....it makes it so much easier for me in life to get ahead of those that give up and do little/nothing.
IN FACT, i count on the do nothings for my success and so does EVERY POLITICIAN IN GOVERNMENT.

As a people, our lack of serious, regular voting in mass...and lack of control and direction of our elected officials has given them reason to think they can do whatever....politicians need voter apathy in order to get away with some of the crap they do.

Its ok, stick your head back into the sand, we'll take care of things for you, of course "with your best interests" in mind....i also have a bridge for sale....

SWEAT, you said

"First off, I have strong, warranted beliefs. Second, if I do do "something" in life, I'll make sure it was worth my time. Third, if someone tells me I don't know (c), then whose problem is that? Definitely not mine. If they think I don't know (c), that's their prerogative. I can't change my ways just so somebody else is satisfied by it."

Some brain food for you

Are your beliefs open to change or ridgid and in flexible.
Beliefs will change, i didnt think mine would, but they do.

"do something worth the time" How do you know at the start that you will get the satisfactory outlook your going for? what if the action fails? will you be able to learn from it or will it just have been a waste of time?
If the outcome wasnt what you expected, but wasnt a failure either, was it worth the time?

"someone tells you you dont know s--t"
How can you be sure that their wrong? what if you really dont know? will you consider that you could be wrong or just chalk it up to "its your opinion".
I LIVE for the moments when i can say "i told you so" to idiiots (not that you are one) that think they know it all, when in reality, im sitting there watching them get ready to hit a wall....(usually blindsided in their arrogance too)...

What will you do when your drill sgt is cussing you up/down telling you dont know #? just say "SIR YES SIR" or you'll never get off KP duty....LOL

Here's the point:

Be smart. Don't fight if you can't win. Heard of live to fight another day? At the way you're going, you'd be squashed before you even say "Power to the people!"

If you have a chance to change things, then do it. But at a time like this, forget it. Right now the Bush regime is covering all corners so obviously it won't get you too far.

That's why I say "don't give a s**t."

CazMedia,

First off, you seem to imply that I was applying this theory to everything. Wrong. If you read carefully, then you'd see that I was referring to the American people's wars against the U.S. government.

Nice try, but you're sadly mistaken. My "don't give a s**t" attitude is not a "I can't win attitude," but rather an acceptance of what's what. Sometimes, you just cannot win. You have to accept that. But that does not mean sit there and do nothing. Do something! For yourself. It can be anything. If you can't win, make it worth the time. If you can't get that new car, accept it, move on, and make the best of the car you have. Here's a "Marine thing." If you can't survive a particular situation, at least make it worth something by killing some of the enemy. You won't win, but why give a damn whether you win or not? Take them with you.

As for burying my head in the sand, I don't do that. Good try again.

One limitation of the message board is that either I can't get my thoughts written to the fullest of clarity and prevent misunderstanding or the other person doesn't read. It's been a case of both.

But here's the thing. Whether you like it or not, I WILL be a Marine. I love the USA (if not the government). The USA gave us the cities of Los Angeles and Atlanta, they gave us PC games, a republic way of doing things, and one cannot forget they gave us baseball. Call me dilussional, but I could never live without these things. I would do just about anything to protect and preserve it all.

Are your beliefs open to change or ridgid and in flexible.
Beliefs will change, i didnt think mine would, but they do.

If you read, I implied I realize beliefs do change. My beliefs have turned almost 180 in only a period of a few years, recently. But it's totally different someone say I WILL think a certain way. So now YOU determine what I believe?

"do something worth the time" How do you know at the start that you will get the satisfactory outlook your going for? what if the action fails? will you be able to learn from it or will it just have been a waste of time?
If the outcome wasnt what you expected, but wasnt a failure either, was it worth the time?

You tell me. All I'll say is that you have to know what you want and you have to work for it. Sometimes, you will fail, but failure does not mean it was a waste. It's only a waste if you never wanted it. Two years ago, I had the worst track season ever. It was plagued by injury, and I wasn't in bad shape. But it was worth the time. I found a way to better myself. The person who doesn't accept the fact mistakes were made and things were bad and learns from them will never be satisfied with anything.

"someone tells you you dont know s--t"
How can you be sure that their wrong? what if you really dont know? will you consider that you could be wrong or just chalk it up to "its your opinion".
I LIVE for the moments when i can say "i told you so" to idiiots (not that you are one) that think they know it all, when in reality, im sitting there watching them get ready to hit a wall....(usually blindsided in their arrogance too)...

Reading, reading, reading! I don't even need to prove I never said they were wrong. That is exactly the reason why I emphasized that you can believe whatever you want. Since you might be right or wrong, that's why it's up to you to decide.

Personally, i don't have the arrogance or the time to look down upon and say "I told you so" to these idiots. Correct or incorrect, it's not our right to change anyone nor look down upon anyone. They may be ignorant idiots, but so are you. So am I. As Jackie Chan said, "We both full of s**t." Satan maybe evil, but the worship Him is a person's choice, not someone elses. You can kill that person if they become a threat, but you never changed what they believed in. To look down upon people for being incorrect or whatever is a pathetic waste of time. We have better things to do than entertain ourselves with others' failures. It's their life, not yours or mine.

What will you do when your drill sgt is cussing you up/down telling you dont know (c)? just say "SIR YES SIR" or you'll never get off KP duty....LOL

Well, I will say that in specific instance, I can be incorrect. So it's warranted. But in non-specific instances, you can't tell me I don't know anything, because neither do you or anyone else, in relative terms.

BTW, it's Drill Instructor in the Marines. Cussing also went out of style long ago.


[Edited on 26-3-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]

What you fail to understand is that additudes like yours are the cause of the unbeatable government.

I do not think they are unbeatable in that we can vote in who we like although the choices at the moment suck.

That can change and I have yet to be "squashed".

What you prescribe to is laziness and a childlike mentality.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
What you fail to understand is that additudes like yours are the cause of the unbeatable government.

I do not think they are unbeatable in that we can vote in who we like although the choices at the moment suck.

That can change and I have yet to be "squashed".

What you prescribe to is laziness and a childlike mentality.

What you don't understand is that attitudes like yours are the cause of an unbeatable government. If you can't take them on but go ahead anyway, you'll get squashed. So much for the revolution.

Look at the Mujahadeen. They never went head-to-head with the Soviet forces and won. If they had gone head-to-head, they would've been slaughtered.

Like I said, if you really think you can destroy a tank with a toothpick while standing in it's lane of fire, go right ahead. Nobody's stopping you. If you succeed, I'll be real happy.

It's not laziness. It's being smart about the situation.

I think your examples kind of suck, not to be nasty but it's true.

There is a big difference here as opposed to there.

1) We have a huge amount of people

2) None of us is talking about armed resistance

3) Simple things like being involved in the community, voting, and speaking out against injustice is "fighting"

4) No government is perfect and needs to be adjusted constantly to prevent major screwups, much like a car

5) You and your kind will be singing your happy tune until things get out of control, then you'll be too late (I don't think we've reached that point yet, but we are getting close).

6) Perhaps you might want to pop out some kids some day. I'm sure they don't want to live in the former America.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
I think your examples kind of suck, not to be nasty but it's true.

There is a big difference here as opposed to there.

1) We have a huge amount of people

2) None of us is talking about armed resistance

3) Simple things like being involved in the community, voting, and speaking out against injustice is "fighting"

4) No government is perfect and needs to be adjusted constantly to prevent major screwups, much like a car

5) You and your kind will be singing your happy tune until things get out of control, then you'll be too late (I don't think we've reached that point yet, but we are getting close).

6) Perhaps you might want to pop out some kids some day. I'm sure they don't want to live in the former America.

I'm glad you think my examples suck. Kinda solidifies what you were saying about yourself.

And I'm not trying to be nasty, but your last arguement was irrelevant, sucked, and it's so true. I was not talking specifically, I was talking very generally. I was talking about the concept, not the situation specifically. So no, my idea doesn't really suck. It's just that you tried to make it out to be a very specific example about a very specific situation when I was being general.

Tell me this: what are you doing? Are you just criticizing instead of going out and poking that tank with a toothpick? Let's hear it, I just want to make sure you're for real.

[Edited on 28-3-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]

Originally posted by Saphronia
Some people will never care what happens. Even though its unconstitutional to kick them out of the country...I'd advocate that. Why should we let them sleep under the same umbrella of freedom and sercurity that America provides while they refuse to participate. I say ship them to a country where there is no freedom and let them start for scatch fighting for freedom then maybe they'll start to appreciate what we have here instead of taking it for granted.

[Edited on 21-3-2004 by Saphronia]

I love this.


I agree 100% if you are to scared or lazy or stupid to fight for your freedom than be a slave and quit whining about it.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo

Tell me this: what are you doing? Are you just criticizing instead of going out and poking that tank with a toothpick? Let's hear it, I just want to make sure you're for real.

Oh, let me count the ways.

- I vote in all elections (yes even the small local ones)
- I speakout when and where I can if things are not right
- I get involved in my community
- I read, learn, and research
- I write my elected officials if I have concerns or to let them know what my position is
- I support the NRA and the Second Amendment as often as possible.
- I support Pro-Life orginazations
- I served my country

- And most importantly, I debate to 1) get my voice out there, and 2) to engage in the free exchange of ideas
[Edited on 28-3-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]