LHC Worriers – what do you think will actually happen?

I have not read a lot about the LHC project, but it is apparent that quite a few think it may destroy our world, or possibly the known universe. I don’t know if this question has been asked before, but I have noticed that people don’t seem to discuss what they actually expect when they say they believe it could end our world.

The question is NOT whether you think it will, or it won’t. The question is if it DID happen what do you think it would be like? How do you imagine it going down? Does everything just cease in an instant? Do you spend the day worrying about a “tingly” sensation that signals a billion tiny black holes are eating away at the fabric of your being? What are you anticipating?



[edit on 13-9-2008 by Sonya610]

Even if something wrong happpens that consumes the entire world, we wont be able to realise that all will happen in the blink of the eye, I meant the so called black hole formation.

Anyway I dont think anything wrong will happen, it has been in the design from 1984 and there has been no conspiracys till now when the beam is started and wont the scientists who are working on this take care that they are alive to see the fruits of their results.

I did some research into the process. They will smash hydrogen protons in train wreck fashion at the near speed of light. 600 trillion protons to 600 trillion anti-protons. This will be done at 7 TeV or 7 TeraVolts which is 7000 GigVolts for a total train wreck of 14 TeV (TaraVolts)

In nature, cosmic rays hit our atmosphere at 20 to 100 TeV. That is much higher than the CERN Collider can do. No black hole have formed from this and it's been happening for billions of years.

The difference between nature and the CERN Collider is that Nature is doing it in a weightless vacume, and CERN is doing it trapped inside a super super magnetic tunnel.

So while the possibility of strange matter or a blck hole is small it's not completely impossible. However, Fermilab has been doing it this way for years at 1 TeV (TeraVolt).


If a black hole formed it would be slow not quick. As you get closer to the event horizon time slows. so you could watch it for a while eat the planet like a sink hole until you could not move. An enormous amount of time would seem to pass and it wold be like slow running in a dream. Finally you would cross the event horizon and be slowly shredded. You would feel everything super slow. Not a good way to go.

So, in the end I'm thankful for cosmic rays or I might have freaked out of this. But, I'll be calm. I think it's man's stupidity that scares me more.

I'm worried because they are basing the safety reports on Hawking radiation which is not proven by any means so basicly no matter what they claim I see it as a 50/50 chance at best. There has quite a lot of debate if Hawking Radiation is actually needed in the Universe or not some models work perfectly fine without it.

That is it in a nutshell really

As for what could Happen I imagine the worse scenario as time slows down as you approach the black hole and you suffer Spaghettification. for what seems to be a an incredibly long time but to everyone else instant.



[edit on 13-9-2008 by Teknikal]

reply to post by Sonya610


I think many will be very scared, I envision many people will not be able to cope with the realities the LHC might offer them. I don't envision black holes engulfing the earth, but I do envision a new beautiful era for humanity. I don't envision death and destruction because I believe that the people who believe the world will end are really speaking metaphorically about their world.

Most of the worries around the LHC is that the scientists were talking about black holes earlier on. The common understanding of the black hole is that it is a giant vacuum cleaner in space.

The thing that people don't realise is that a black hole is fairly simple in its mechanics. The core of the thing is matter, the star from which the BH is born + any matter which has been consumed. The matter core is the fuel for the gravity and radiation that floods out of a black hole but if it isn't feed constantly, then the core gets used up and the black hole dies.

Any black hole that the LHC will create is on a scale that will be past the threshold which the rate of matter going in will equal of be greater than the rate the matter is being used up.


Any black hole will be a blip of radiation of a monitor somewhere, so calm down.

Originally posted by Good Wolf

Any black hole that the LHC will create is on a scale that will be past the threshold which the rate of matter going in will equal of be greater than the rate the matter is being used up.

The Hawkings Radiation makes it safe excuse again that may reassure you but I have my doubts about anything unproven.

What if Hawking Radiation doesn't actually exist and the thing starts gaining mass or what if two micro black holes actually collide and become one or any other particle we don't understand could merge with one and kick it off.

There are definitely risks involved here to pretend it's completely safe is a nonsense.

I hope you are right though because it's to late to do much about it.


[edit on 13-9-2008 by Teknikal]

Well, I'm not worried. As peacejet pointed out, if something does go wrong, we'll never know.


Bliss ignorance as pure as it gets.

Originally posted by Fromabove
If a black hole formed it would be slow not quick. As you get closer to the event horizon time slows. so you could watch it for a while eat the planet like a sink hole until you could not move. An enormous amount of time would seem to pass and it wold be like slow running in a dream. Finally you would cross the event horizon and be slowly shredded. You would feel everything super slow. Not a good way to go.

Really? It would be slow? I thought it would be very fast. What is that theory based on? And if time slowed down, would we notice? Regarding it being a "bad way to go" I doubt that, I wouldn't expect any pain to be involved at all. It might be pretty cool actually.

And no I am not worried about it at all. I suppose anything is possible, I just wanted to hear the thoughts of others because so many seem to say “this awful thing could happen” but no one talks about what the “awful thing” would actually consist of.


[edit on 14-9-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Teknikal
I'm worried because they are basing the safety reports on Hawking radiation which is not proven by any means so basicly no matter what they claim I see it as a 50/50 chance at best. There has quite a lot of debate if Hawking Radiation is actually needed in the Universe or not some models work perfectly fine without it.
[edit on 13-9-2008 by Teknikal]

I wouldnt be worried because blackholes are not proven either they are only theories just like hawkins radiation

What is taking place inside the LHC has been continuously happening in the solar system for hundreds of million years on much higher energy level, yet we are still here. Cosmic particles charged with higher kinetic energies have been colliding with subatomic particles that the solar system is made of with no black holes materializing. So what's the problem?

The problem is that the subject of particle physics can be quite demanding, and it is out of grasp for the majority of Homo sapiens. Remember that when you were born, your hardware inside your head is the same as it was for the folks who were born in biblical times, and who had a hard time to grasp the abstract concept of zero, for example. Things didn't improve thereafter and that's why the calendar time line doesn't include year 0: we go from 1 BC to 1 AD. The pronoun "we" excludes astronomers and other scientists who occasionally need to travel back to the BC period. They use their own calendar that includes year 0.

In order to come up with deviations that would create outstanding analytic minds, the nature must produce billions of Homo sapiens hoping that some of the species would be able to understand stuff.

The whole LHC apprehension is based on a projection of people whose inherited mental capacities do not permit their mind to follow in detail all the terms that lead to the building of LHC. The chances that Man will destroy its own planet the "smart way" are about the same as the chances that each and every person born between the year 2008 and 2009 will earn a degree from some scientific field.

There has been an argument referring to Stephen Hawking's theory of evaporating black holes as a safeguard for the LHC micro black holes not getting larger and coalesce into one big hungry black hole that would devour the earth. What if Stephen Hawking's theory is wrong? In that case a black hole will eat the last name, and the first name Stephen will tell you the rest:
www.firsttvdrama.com...
crunch...crunch...crunch...

What a cool question!
Ok, a particle approaches the speed of light, as it does so it gets heavier and heavier, and shorter in the direction it's travelling. Soon it gets so close to the speed of light that its weight reaches enough to pull back any light that it would otherwise emit or reflect. At this point it is a black hole and no longer susceptible to the guiding magnetic force of the LHC. The black hole would fly out through the sidewall of the LHC, through the ground and gain altitude due to the curvature of the Earth. It would reach space and then arc back down towards Earth, pulled by gravity despite its immense speed, due to it's immense weight (caused by travelling so close to the speed of light).
The black hole would re-enter the atmosphere and dive into the Earth in an elliptical orbit around the Earths core. It would exit the Earth's surface and then re-enter, exit and re-enter causing localised damage as it orbits. Over a period of a couple of years it would slowly grow larger than the ridiculously small particle size and when it had grown enough it would start to damage the structural integrity of the Earths tectonic plates. There would be earthquakes like mankind has never seen before. There would be Hollywood style tsunamis wreaking nightmare inspired havoc. Volcanos would erupt, weather would change. It would be like nature had turned against mankind in a last fit of revenge.
The surface conditions would finish us off long before the black hole would "eat" the entire Earth, which it eventually would.

reply to post by Recouper


Just to set the record straight: I really do not believe anything bad will happen.
This is just a what if scenario.

Originally posted by Recouper
reply to post by Recouper

 

Just to set the record straight: I really do not believe anything bad will happen.
This is just a what if scenario.

That's too late, Recouper. Your what-if scenario is exactly the one that Stephen Hawking & Peter Higgs overlooked. The presence of the all-devouring black hole will be noticed by the LHC operators on February 18, 2009 when the food from their lunch boxes starts disappearing en masse.

reply to post by stander


The scientist's lunches! Of course, how could I be so blind!

The lunches will provide the stabilizing factor to the problem.

Before the black holes evaporate, they will feed on the scientist's lunches. The ham and cheese sandwiches will join the singularity adding an enormous amount of mass (enormous compared to a single particle).

Who could have guessed that ham and cheese sandwiches would be responsible for the extinction of the human race...?

Originally posted by Recouper
reply to post by stander

 

Who could have guessed that ham and cheese sandwiches would be responsible for the extinction of the human race...?

Not so fast. Man ain't no stupid. Will fight back . . .

Stephen Hawking's emergency neutralization formula: NjAij + NiBij(pv) = www.trapman.co.uk...

Peter Higg's emergency neutralization backup formula: Emc^2 + pv = witchcraft-supplies.com...


[edit on 9/15/2008 by stander]

reply to post by peacejet


It will take about 2-3 moths for a black hole to consume the Earth...
At least thats what the scientists say..

Originally posted by skekke
It will take about 2-3 moths for a black hole to consume the Earth...
At least thats what the scientists say..

Oh. It was one thing if it happened so quick we didn't know it. But 2-3 months? Acks. Now that would be unpleasant, for many of us it means anarchy and probably dying of other causes.

I do not think anything will happen, just another experiment.

Originally posted by Hasjkarn
I do not think anything will happen, just another experiment.

No, not just another experiment. Once analysed, the results could be profound. Assuming we are told the truth regarding those results, it could be world changing. Possibly even a small step towards freedom...