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Jessie Ventura attempts to debate a Firefighter at a Memorial on 911

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posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia
How can anyone take you serious? The guy wanted to talk about it, and then once he was backed into a hole he pulls the "I don't want to talk about it, I'm here to remember people" line.

I see you post day after day, and it's always the same things. You do nothing but attempt to debunk 9/11 and commit character assassination on anyone who questions things. And in this case, on something totally uneventful. I'm not supposed to take him serious because he debated a firefighter at a memorial? Please.

I do not see any objectivity in your posts. All I see from you is any excuse that is possible to believe. If I wanted to see swamp gas explanations I would turn on the TV. If you can't even recognize faults and debate the topic without attacking someone's character, then you are the one who shouldn't be taken seriously.

Where is your outrage when people use 9/11 as a tool for rallying up the masses?

How can I take him serious? Because he is actually standing up and asking questions that need to be asked. All you've posted is someone is asking questions and when pressed for an answer they couldn't give wanted to drop it.


If Jesse wanted to be in a serious conversation why didn't he ask to speak with the firefighter after the memorial, or the day of remembrance instead of firing off his mouth...I do believe that's why no one takes him seriously, and the fact that you couldn't see that makes me unable to take you seriously. How would you like to be at your mothers grave on her birthday only to have someone who thinks they are a hot shot come up to you and ask you about the autopsy results being false.
Part of being humane is having some humility and Jesse showed NONE here.




posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 06:34 PM
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I listened to this video and I saw nothing wrong with what Jesse did. First off, we don't know the circumstances of how these men began to start their conversation. What we do know is that Jesse was asked to attend the memorial by and Arizona Senator, and was there to discuss his beliefs on what happened on 9-11.

Now does that give him an excuse to harass people just trying to remember their fallen comrades? Absolutely not. But again, their is no audio of what started the conversation. The audio merely starts out with the firefighter explaining what he believed the smoked showed, and Jesse retorting, politely might i add. Then the firefighters says he doesn't want to talk about it, and Ventura says he understands and thanks him for the job he is doing.

I didn't hear disrespect at all. Even if I do give you the benefit of the doubt that Ventura approached this man with a question first (which we have no way of knowing), its obvious they were having a civil conversation, and when the gentlemen asked for it to end, Ventura politely did so.

What I get from this thread is exactly what Ventura critiques about 9-11. We are to a point that if you ask a question about 9-11, then somehow you are being disrespectful to the victims. This thread proves it. I encourage everyone to listen to this audio, so that they can see how absurd some of your reactions are to it.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
There are numerous threads about that here at ATS. There were also a few peer reviewed papers on the same subject. I will be more than happy to provide the information. If you are indeed looking for the truth.


I've seen the type of information you put out/support, stuff like the NIST report. I've already had a discussion with you before about the cuts on the beams. Where you took that people were cutting some of them off, and tried to claim that meant all must have been cut like that.

It's pretty much the law of whats in motion will stay in motion unless another force stops it. I know what I saw. There was obviously another force that stopped it.


Excuses? Interesting. I was a truther when I first arrived here at ATS. 99% of the questions I had, have been answered. I back up my statements with reliable sources and facts. I don't listen to the opinionated dolts like Alex Jones, Rosie O'Donnell, Jessie Ventura. Now, if they presented facts, I would lend my ear to what they have to say.


You expect me or anyone to believe you went from being a truther to backing up obviously false NIST reports that had new phenomenon? And I didn't listen to them either. I knew on the day it happened explosives were used. I was honestly shocked when that part was excluded in the official story, and when the Iraq stuff started combined with the constant loss of rights I knew something was up.


It was a memorial for DEAD PEOPLE. What don't you get? The man was out of line. I don't have a problem with him stating his opinions on what he thinks happened on 911 (as wrong as he is) That was NOT the TIME or the PLACE for him to grandstand.


And as long as he had been supporting the official story, you wouldn't have had a problem with it. As I pointed out before, you keep pretending it's that he did it at a memorial, but the truth is his manners aren't even close to being the reason you attack him. I seen another thread where you attacked people for their opinion. Seems to be the norm for you.


If he was there to show his support to the firefighters at the memorial, that shows character. This, however was not his intent. The subject matter and his manners were BOTH inappropriate and I do object to them BOTH.

Yes, starting this thread did discredit him. Don't shoot the messenger sir. He discredited himself.


He discredited himself because his opinion is not the same as yours? If you believed the official story was false, what better way of honoring the people who died on that day than to be the one who brings up the issue among those who care?

Oh but thats right, because you don't share his opinion it's ok to make personal attacks on him.




You're entitled to your opinion. I encourage people to post. I am here to learn as well. I have learned a great deal and hope to continue to do so. You obviously do not pay attention to my posts sir. I do tend to get a bit abrasive at times, but typically it's when I am instigated.


You are here to pass along disinformation. That much is clear.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by yellowcard
If Jesse wanted to be in a serious conversation why didn't he ask to speak with the firefighter after the memorial, or the day of remembrance instead of firing off his mouth...I do believe that's why no one takes him seriously, and the fact that you couldn't see that makes me unable to take you seriously. How would you like to be at your mothers grave on her birthday only to have someone who thinks they are a hot shot come up to you and ask you about the autopsy results being false.
Part of being humane is having some humility and Jesse showed NONE here.


How do you know what he did after? It's just another post where someone is upset that someone mentioned the official story being false at a memorial. When in all honesty there is not a more appropriate time to do so.

As for my mother part. That wouldn't bother me at all. And why should it? If they had information to share, I'd welcome it.

If I had been killed in 9/11, I would be thankful for the people who are brave enough to stand up and ask real questions and bring up real issues. I'd consider those who thought waving flags and attacking people for what happened to me as being wrong.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 07:31 PM
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I just see the names Throat Yoghurt and Swampfox over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and oveover and over and over and over saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over never listening to anyone or any proof or evidence or witness testimony, then over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over again simply dismissing it. These two "characters" seem to have an awful lot of time to be doing this, more like a 40 Hour a week job. I wonder what the pay is like?

Meanwhile back on topic... Jesse is a bloody legend, and he is one of the few growing in numbers vocal inspirations to others out there. I always thought the US of A was ALL about FREE SPEECH, seems to me lately I see a type of "you can't say that" or "that might offend you saying that" kind of speil from, well damn, the PRESS! Amazing huh? I wonder what Clark Kent would think about this type of "reporting" from todays obviously sold out "news hounds". This resonates worldwide too.

Love to the rest of the truthers out there. And for the 1st time ever I was inspired to hand out 150 dvd's down my small town street, and interestingly enough, 80% were of approval, and 20% not so much (lol). Oh the tide has turned, and when you can get someone like me off their butt to do this, miracles indeed do happen.


Z



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted badmedia
And as long as he had been supporting the official story, you wouldn't have had a problem with it. As I pointed out before, you keep pretending it's that he did it at a memorial, but the truth is his manners aren't even close to being the reason you attack him.



Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
If he was there to show his support to the firefighters at the memorial, that shows character. This, however was not his intent. The subject matter and his manners were BOTH inappropriate and I do object to them BOTH.


How would you "know" his intent? Because you "know" how other "truthers" feel by being a former "truther" yourself? I like your line of questioning here badmedia, why is this little exchange so important that it needs to be used in this manner to belittle and humiliate those who want answers?

Guy says I don't want to talk about it, Jessie says OK.

Where's the problem? If it was the time and place, then why say "subject matter and manners" are objectionable to you?



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by infinityoreilly


How would you "know" his intent?
Guy says I don't want to talk about it, Jessie says OK.

Where's the problem? If it was the time and place, then why say "subject matter and manners" are objectionable to you?



How would I know his intent? This is Jessie Ventura. That's what he is about. He is a speaker for 911 truth now. Like I said over and over. His questioning isn't the problem I have. It was the timing.

Subject Matter: Conspiracy Theories are not a subject that should have been brought up during a memorial service.

Manners: By trying to bait someone into a debate during a memorial service is bad manners.

I don't have to belittle or humiliate Jessie Ventura. He does a great job of it on his own.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow

Meanwhile back on topic... Jesse is a bloody legend


The WWF encouraged most wrestlers to cut their foreheads during matches. It added to the show. So, yes he was bloody. A legend? I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there.



and he is one of the few growing in numbers vocal inspirations to others out there.


to other what?


I always thought the US of A was ALL about FREE SPEECH, seems to me lately I see a type of "you can't say that" or "that might offend you saying that"


Free Speech does not mean what you say has to be heard. Nor does it mean we have to listen.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia
It's just another post where someone is upset that someone mentioned the official story being false at a memorial. When in all honesty there is not a more appropriate time to do so.


After a statement like this you wonder why truthers have such a bad name.



As for my mother part. That wouldn't bother me at all. And why should it? If they had information to share, I'd welcome it.


The thing is sir, Jessie bring NOTHING to his rants. NOTHING. Please, if you can post what Jessie has presented let me know.


If I had been killed in 9/11, I would be thankful for the people who are brave enough to stand up and ask real questions and bring up real issues. I'd consider those who thought waving flags and attacking people for what happened to me as being wrong.


There you go using the "attacked" word. The attacking is from the few goons at ground zero spewing lies. Truthers no longer ask questions...and if they do, they ignore the answers.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia


I've seen the type of information you put out/support, stuff like the NIST report. ..........


You probably haven't read any of it.




You expect me or anyone to believe you went from being a truther to backing up obviously false NIST reports that had new phenomenon? And I didn't listen to them either. I knew on the day it happened explosives were used. ..........


You need to read a little more sir. As expected you are here with a preconceived notion that the government did this. You will ignore facts that are presented to you. Your hand waving of evidence is typical. You will believe any truther rhetoric because this fits your thoughts.





And as long as he had been supporting the official story, you wouldn't have had a problem with it.


The memorial has NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY "STORY". It was a DAY OF REMEMBRANCE. If he were there to pay his respects for those that had fallen, I would not have a problem with it.



As I pointed out before, you keep pretending it's that he did it at a memorial, but the truth is his manners aren't even close to being the reason you attack him. I seen another thread where you attacked people for their opinion. Seems to be the norm for you.


Let me try to explain this to you. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But if you are going to accuse someone of killing thousands of people, you better have some facts to back it up. Mr. Ventura has none. The norm for me is to post facts.

Mr. Ventura doing this at a memorial service solidifies my opinion of his as a human being. (or lack there of)




He discredited himself because his opinion is not the same as yours? If you believed the official story was false, what better way of honoring the people who died on that day than to be the one who brings up the issue among those who care?


For you to NOT see this was inappropriate shows you know nothing about honor. I suggest you talk to some firefighters that were at GZ on 911... but you wont. You and others like you are not interested in the truth.


Oh but thats right, because you don't share his opinion it's ok to make personal attacks on him.


Again...his opinions are unfounded. He is accusing people of mass murder. It is up to him to state some facts. I have yet to see any.



You are here to pass along disinformation. That much is clear.


Nice dodge.... well not really. You will have to show me where I posted disinformation. ( hint: you wont be able to)

I make mistakes here..and sometimes jump to conclusions. I will however fix those mistakes.

[edit on 13-9-2008 by ThroatYogurt]



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
How would I know his intent? This is Jessie Ventura. That's what he is about.


Your losing my respect here. badmedia has called your bias out here.

I don't believe you "know" what Jessies intent was by using this video clip. Am I wrong? Do you "know" Jessie personally?

Spelling. PS your avatar, did the mods say anything to you about it?

[edit on 9/13/2008 by infinityoreilly]



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by ThroatYogurt
 





-Please list the rights you have lost since 911.


Are people still trying to debate this? I thought the debate had evolved into the realization that rights have been taken away necessarily vs. unnecessarily.

If you still question whether or not rights have been taken away or modified since 9/11 a simple Google search should answer your questions.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by harvib
 


The ACLU offered this presentation to the Senate Judiciary Committee in 2003..

www.globalsecurity.org...

I believe that the implication is that WE HAVE lost a substantial number of "rights" since 9/11, sorry TY there is no doubt..



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by ThroatYogurt
 


I exposed you for what you are. I have no reason to continue debating it with you. People like you are the reason I generally avoid the 9/11 forums.

One thing is for certain. ATS certainly doesn't enforce it's own rules. This isn't even your only thread like this.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 09:29 PM
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Jesse isn't perfect, neither is any one of us. As far as I heard, he blessed the guy at the end, and was respectful. I don't know the full circumstances, but Jesse was probably having these conversations all through the day with different people, so perhaps he just went with the 'flow'.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 09:40 PM
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I think that Jesse Ventura probably made a bad choice when he chose to attempt *debate* with the firefighter.

That being said, I have a hard time saying he is out of line. Everyone in this *entire* country has equal share to the knowledge of what happened that day. It makes no difference if he was talking to a firefighter, a police officer, a school teacher or myself. You see, if he had been talking to me, we probably would have gotten along quite well and had a good discussion. Why? Because I have a lot of the same questions he does. Not implicating anyone, just wanting another investigation.

Whether he was out of line or not doesn't really matter to me, nor should it to anyone else imo, unless it was actually you he was talking to. If the firefighter had wanted to talk about it, everything would have went just fine.

This is one of those things folks, you're either gonna believe what you've been told or you're not. It will remain that way until we get more answers. Both sides have evidenced hypotheses, we need to investigate more. And more. And more until we can hopefully get this thing out of the way.

And before someone tells me that it DOES matter who he was talking to I'll state that I was actually serving Active Duty the day of the attack, I remember that day and the subsequent days very well. I don't know anyone that died that day personally, but my questions are just as valid as anyone's, and anyone's as mine. The character assassination needs to halt.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
reply to post by badmedia
 


Was Jessie's behavior appropriate for a 911 Memorial?

Yes or no?


Yes, for christ's sake, because it was an inside job!


Edit to clarify: Nobody who thinks this was an inside job gives a DAMN about "remembrance" of a bunch of total BS. Do you understand that or does it go right over your head?



If you want a "Patriot Day" jerk fest I'm sure there are more appropriate places for that kind of jingoism (like a Nazi convention) than what equates to a public forum, where you come across things like free speech. Yes, you SHOULD find free speech disturbing, just as cancer should find its cure hostile.

And I agree with the 2nd poster -- the firefighter is the only one who looks like an "a**." The man may be a hero but that doesn't mean he's being victimized when he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about and gets called out on it.

[edit on 13-9-2008 by bsbray11]



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by ThroatYogurt

Originally posted by boaby_phet
its possibly a tad tasteless to some people, but jesse wants the truth and he has to be respected for that.


So, what you're saying is Jessie should be respected for disrespecting a firefighter at a memorial for fallen firefighters?

He has a right to question what ever he wants. But... there is a time and a place.



no. i quite clearly said he should be respected for standing up for what he believes in, you clearly think their is something wrong with your politicians actualy having a backbone..

please dont try and mis quote me it will not wort and at the end of the day, im not even american, just someone who likes to see people stand up for what they believe in. if you have a problem with that take a ticket and wait for someone who gives a fudge.

Just because he was a wrestler doesnt mean he is some sort of animal, he was an entertainer, now he is a politician, much like many other entertainers who have became sucessful politicans in america. You may not like his style, but least he has a backbone, something most politians in the world severly lack!



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread390936
Was Jessie's behavior appropriate for a 911 Memorial?


Yes or no?

IT was NOT.


Personally I believe something funny went on with the Government on 9/11. A handful of top people in different areas of Government and military helped it along for a new agenda. But...

Jessie had NO business bothering a FDNY remembering the fallen 343. Damn that is just wrong. If some people knew how the FD feels when just one goes down let alone 343 on the same scene they would not pull stupid stunts like that!


Edit to add: I wasn't going to post on ATS anymore but this one dragged me back in.

[edit on 13-9-2008 by LoneGunMan]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by badmediaYou expect me or anyone to believe you went from being a truther to backing up obviously false NIST reports that had new phenomenon?

You are here to pass along disinformation. That much is clear.


I believe him and the reason being is that I went from leaning toward "the inside job" as put out by the "truthers" to seeing reality; that being the NIST reports are MUCH more thorough in logic than the "inside job" stories.

There most definately are questions that have yet to be answered and they will remain unanswered bc ppl are still too obsessed in convincing others to believe unsupported theories... in other words, ppl are too distracted by the puppets to see the strings being pulled by the unseen puppeteers.

Disinformation is meant to confuse, distort, and distract. Are you positive you are pegging the right person as being the one to pass along disinformation?


[edit on 14-9-2008 by justamomma]






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