Muslim extremists conspiring to overthrow Great Britain

You have stated to “Deny Ignorance.”

That is exactly what I am doing. You are the one, along with the apologists, that is trying to deny the written words of the Quran. This is the very definition of ignorance.

I am not taking any words out of context, I am only taking them from the source itself, the written words of the Quran.

What have I said that was hate speech against Muslims? Is it not the highest and most noble goal to use the truth of the words of the Quran to show the tenants of Islam? I am not attacking Muslims by doing so, I am simply helping Muslims and fellow Christians to understand their own faith and the words of the Quran.

The true evils in this thread are those of your words, not mine.

The ignorance on this thread is sickening.

What ignorance? The only ignorance displayed here is yours in trying to deny the truth of the written words of the Quran. Everyone on here, except you, has only quoted listed and verifiable sources. What ignorance is this?

Their religion is peaceful..

Where is the proof of your ignorant claim? Show me your sources to back up your statment since you falsly claim that you deny ignorance. Islam is proudly not a peaceful religion. International Islamic Law states that all Muslims “must” commit an act of Jihad sometime in their lifetime. And act of Jihad is an act of religious war against infidels. You are the one who is promoting ignorance by not backing up your lies that Islam is a peaceful religion.

Reading the responses in this thread conjures up the mental image of Islamophobes hiding in their basement because they are scared to death of a "Big scary Muslim" jumping out from behind a tree and "getting" them.

You are the one who is afraid. You are the one who is refusing to see the truths of the words of thier holy book. You are the one who is denying the words of the Quran. You are the one who is choosing to believe ignorance in spite of the truth.

And yes, quoting a passage from the Qur’an out of context to prove a point (Ohhhhh they're coming to get us! See it says so right here!) IS ignorance.

Stop quoting the Quran? Do you want to remain ignorant of the words of their so-called holy book? I will say it again for those who chose to remain ignorant of the truth like you do. These words are written for “all” of Islam to follow for “All” time. There is no context to take them out of. It is a simple command for all of Islam to follow. You just choose to ignore the truth so that your happy little world is not shattered by it. Here are the words again since you choose to deny them once again.

Qur'an 2:191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

[edit on 13-9-2008 by Hot_Wings]

Yes, i deny ignorance. And am doing so in this thread. You are trying to paint every Muslim with the same brush saying they are all violent because of a passage in their holy book. Yet, when I quote a similar violent quote from the bible.. You don't even respond to that point. Just because it's in the bible does it make all Christians evil? By your thinking yes, and that is ignorant. Just like quoting one passage in the Qur’an and making it look like "Oh, there's a violent quote in here, so it must make all Muslims violent".

I'm not an "Apologist" either. Which is something else I find ignorant. It's that whole "You're either with us, or against us" "We're always right, you're wrong" attitude. And misquoting me is definitely NOT denying ignorance.

Everyone has the right to believe in whatever religion they want to, even if their god is a flying spaghetti monster that will reign terror on the world with meatballs falling from the sky.

Just because you do not agree with them, don't paint them all as evil... And yes, history shows us that the Muslim religion is relatively peaceful. Have some Muslims done some REALLY horrible things, yes. But so have Christians and those belonging to every other religion known to man.



[edit on 9/13/2008 by justme2]

Originally posted by Hot_Wings
International Islamic Law states that all Muslims “must” commit an act of Jihad sometime in their lifetime. And act of Jihad is an act of religious war against infidels.

Source?
Edit.. That is actually patently untrue (your definition of jihad).

According to scholar John Esposito, Jihad requires Muslims to "struggle in the way of God" or "to struggle to improve one's self and/or society."[3][4] Jihad is directed against Satan's inducements, aspects of one's own self, or against a visible enemy.[1][5] The four major categories of jihad that are recognized are Jihad against one's own self (Jihad al-Nafs), Jihad of the tongue (Jihad al-lisan), Jihad of the hand (Jihad al-yad), and Jihad of the sword (Jihad as-sayf).[5] Islamic jurisprudence focuses on regulating the conditions and practice of Jihad as-sayf, the only form of warfare permissible under Islamic law.

Definition of Jihad
--------------------
Was going to respond to the rest of your post, but it's not worth it. I can see where this is heading..

We can agree to disagree.

[edit on 9/13/2008 by justme2]

Originally posted by Elemensa


Well this is just awful. I tell you i used to love England my home but after the last couple of years it seems we are becoming second class citizens in our own homeland.
I am seriously considering moving to the U.S.A because i can really tell that England is going down the sink hole due to the fact that our goverment just does not care and are too afraid of offending the muslim's.
It's like they want Sharia law so so much but is that not the main reason they had to flee there own country's. Sharia law is what is destroying there nations so why do they have to damage us. I'd like to stress i am not racist it just this issue annoys me so much mainly because a lot of people are too afraid to speak up about it.

www.thesun.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

This sounds fishy, from what I read it seems they are twisting the poor man's words, just like they twisted Ahmadinajad's words about exterminating Jews or something similar. Unless you post the whole audiotape or a full transcript it won't be believeable.

Sharia Law is not destroying their nations lol it's your foreign policy, I thought that was old news? Than again we don't know what time line each of us are living in (stupid philosophy).

By the way, the Nazis thought Jews were anoying too I'm not implying anything here, I'm just saying See how confusing everything is.

[edit on 113030p://30b9 by Ownification]

Well, if you are a moderate Muslim, you need to start realizing that your enemies are not the people who are not Muslims, who are alarmed by the actions and words of radical/fundamentalist Muslim, who are only acting in their own self defense. If you are a moderate Muslim, then your true enemies are the radical Muslims whose actions and words make it seem that all Muslims are a threat to the non-Muslim world.

If you are truly a moderate Muslim, then you should take every opportunity to denounce radical Muslims, and to speak out against them. When you hear these militant words spoken by radical Muslims, you should be quick to point out how wrong their positions are. When you hear these aggressive calls for action against Non-Muslims, you must speak out about how wrong they are. You must be willing to turn in these radicals to the authorities, and do the most to prevent the radicals from taking over your communities.

Moderate Muslims need to start demanding attention from the media, start organizing protests against radical extremist Muslims. Only moderate Muslims can start speaking out in their own self defense, and start defending themselves against radical Muslims.

I often wonder if Enoch powell was on to something.

en.wikipedia.org...

Below is a extract of a speech by Winston Churchill

WINSTON CHURCHILL ON ISLAM - SPEECH IN 1899!

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as
hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The
effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly
systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity
of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement;
the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law
every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property either
as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of
slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among
men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of
the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.
No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being
moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has
already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at
every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the
strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly
struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the
civilization of ancient Rome."

Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition,
Vol. II, pages 248-50

I live in the UK and what is more dangerous is political correctness gone mad. I was appalled to see in the news a few months ago that a police sniffer dog was made to wear socks in a mosque because Muslims found dogs offensive. That is going over a red line in my book. yes we should respect relgions and tolerate one another but to bed over backwards too far for any one set of relgious beleifs is goign down a dangerous road. Islam should be respected certaitnly but should not seek favourtism over any other reglious group ie Buddism, Shiek, Jewdiasm etc. UK is a prodaminatly Christian country. Anyone wanting to settle here, fine, got no problem with that but they should respect the culture and laws of the country they are visitng/staying in. It's the same if i visit say Saudi Arabia for example i would respect their laws, i certaintly would not break open a can of beer or go into a mosque with my shoes on. You simply just dont go doing that. It's offensive to their culture and beleifs. Besides i dont fancy a date with the cat o nine tails !!!! But seriously we should respect our differences. Nuff said really.

I just cannot believe some of these posts, have you actually understood what you are saying, it's bordering on being Nazi.

Am I Muslim...NO!!

I do have Muslim in laws tho and my mother in law has worked her backside off since she came here in the 50's, she's never claimed a penny of benefit and made everything happen by good honest work. Her big happiness is her religion, it gives her something to follow and she loves it.

Is she a militant...er no, she's a proud British person who hates all this extremist nonsense but like a lot of Muslims she's bound by her religion to not condemn others, not because she likes these morons but because she's not allowed to judge as that is only allowed by her god.

Personally I think it's a terrible rule as a lot of people would be more relieved if they heard proper Muslims disowning these morons.

As for using passages of the Quran to prove hatred, bloody hell, you could take passages from every religions Holy books to prove hatred, that's what religion is for in my opinion, to divide and rule..

As for Sharia law, it's an ancient mess based upon keeping the man in the front. I'd bet most Muslims especially women would NOT like to see it introduced into the mainstream but like other things ie the dogs with shoes on are allowed because our PC government likes to please just about every minority and introduces some of the most stupid rules to please anyone.

My problem with all this is that people get tarred with the same brush for no reason, it's like saying football fans are the same as football hooligans because they both follow the same sport.

My daughter is in a minority in her classed because she speaks English as her first language but do I blame the predominantly Eastern European parents for this, No I blame our incredibly lax Government for enormous gaffe's with immigration and useless border controls.

Are there extremist morons in this country, you better believe it, are they all Muslim, er no, are there people who target Britain because of it's lax laws and hand outs, er yes but are they purely Muslim..er no.

What we need to do is weed out the individuals who commit or plan to commit crime and return those who do not originate from here back to their own counties be it Iran, Iraq, Africa, Poland etc etc

We have enough idiots of our own that prey on those in this country no matter what the victims colour, creed or religious background is. We need to target people because of what they have DONE or are DOING and not because of what we 'THINK' they believe in.

Make Britain safer for the British, be they Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Non Religious, Black, white, yellow or brown. Everyone is allowed a culture, just don't shove it in another ones face and use it to abuse.

As for using passages of the Quran to prove hatred, bloody hell, you could take passages from every religions Holy books to prove hatred, that's what religion is for in my opinion, to divide and rule..

Show me one passage from the Bible that tells all followers to kill “All” non believers wherever they find them for the rest of time. Show me one quote from the Bible that tells Christians and Jews to attack and kill “All” nonbelievers.

You people want to make the false claim that all religions preach this kind of open unending murder against others, but guess what. It simply isn’t true. Only one of the three main religions preaches to kill “all” non-believers, and that religion is Islam.

My problem with all this is that people get tarred with the same brush for no reason; it's like saying football fans are the same as football hooligans because they both follow the same sport.

Once again, people are putting words in my mouth. What “group” of Muslims have I attacked? All I have done is quote the words of the Quran. The fact that all Muslims follow that book is something that I cannot help now can I? All Muslims believe to kill all non-believers because it is written in the Quran. I posted this so that you could read it for yourselves, but you don’t want to read it. You want to ignore what the Quran says.

Are there extremist morons in this country, you better believe it

I find it strange that the only ones here who have called Muslims any names at all are the ones who are supposedly trying to defend the religion. You are the ones who have called the fundamentalists morons, not I.

You are trying to paint every Muslim with the same brush saying they are all violent because of a passage in their holy book. Yet, when I quote a similar violent quote from the bible.. You don't even respond to that point.

I have not said that they are all violent. I have simply stated from their holy book itself, what every Muslim has professed to believe. All of Islam “Must” believe in the words of the Quran. I’ll repost it again since you apologist still want to deny the truth of the written words of the Quran. ANd when i have more time I will respond to your quotes from the Bible. I siply forgot to do so earlier.

Qur'an 2:191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

I have not painted anyone with tar. The only thing that I have done was quote the Quran itself. But look at all the people who have taken offense to that. Have I called anyone any names? No. But you want to attack me so that others will forget about the words of the Quran. You want to attack me because you want to deny the truths of what All Muslims must believe.

You should ask yourselves why you are doing this. Why are you attacking me and making all these false claims against what I have said? It is the words of the Quran that tell all Muslims to Kill Infidels, not my words. You just refuse to believe what anyone can read from Quran for themselves.

It's funny how muslims think they are so superior from white man. But the fact is that the white man has been kicking their asses for centuries now.

If the muslims want a baby producing contest, I am all for it. Europe is around 500 million people; it can easily become 1 billion if everyone has 3, 4 or more babies.

But that's just an insane "dick measuring" contest. The logical solution is to kick all muslims out of Britain. And out of Europe.

I do not understand why we have to put up with any strangers. In the name of what? multiculturalism? well, I accept multiculturalism as long as the others respect my culture. If the others want to take me over, then I will kick their butts and throw them to the sea.

Instead of being grateful that they are allowed to live in a 1st world country like GB, they want to destroy it. Gee, isn't that arrogant? I say let's kick them out and be done with it.

reply to post by masterp


I would prefer to kick hate-filled neo-nazi scum like you "into the sea" first.

Originally posted by masterp
It's funny how muslims think they are so superior from white man. But the fact is that the white man has been kicking their asses for centuries now.

1. You don't have to be Brown to be a Muslim, think Eastern Europe...

2. You seem to be the sort of person who hates anyone non white..

[Hot_Wings

Once again, people are putting words in my mouth. What “group” of Muslims have I attacked? All I have done is quote the words of the Quran. The fact that all Muslims follow that book is something that I cannot help now can I? All Muslims believe to kill all non-believers because it is written in the Quran. I posted this so that you could read it for yourselves, but you don’t want to read it. You want to ignore what the Quran says.

Actually the Religion proposes peace and urges it's followers to not just believe but to research for themselves...

Are there extremist morons in this country, you better believe it

Hot_Wings

I find it strange that the only ones here who have called Muslims any names at all are the ones who are supposedly trying to defend the religion. You are the ones who have called the fundamentalists morons, not I.

There are extremist Morons in this country just like yours, some call them the BNP but I call an individual a moron as opposed to a whole culture, group or faith..

Hot_Wings

Qur'an 2:191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

Did you actually bother to read that in the context of the religion?

In the Quran it states that anyone who attacks you you can go to war with based on the faith.

So

"from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter"

Suddenly becomes a bit different in meaning, it says that they were being attacked, persecuted and driven out so fought back. Something I'll think think you will find is normal in any nations wars. It's certainly not advocating that if you see an unbeliever then its ok to kill them for the name of the religion. The book actually says you will go to their hell if they kill an innocent being.

What's daft is that you think I support the religion, I actually think all religion is total nonsense, deliberately created stories with incredible similarities design with two purposes only :- Divide and rule...

Only in religion could you have paedophiles protected by their own bosses despite it being totally at odds with said religion. And I'm not keeping that just to Christian belief, it happens in Islam as well and almost certainly 99% of religions.

I just hate seeing someone claiming not to be attacking anyone but then says that the Muslims have to be bad (in total) if they believe their book.

I'll say it again, the criminal element (whoever they are) must be weeded out and treated appropriately, if you have ventured to Britain to cast hate and commit crime then you are not needed here, if you claim you need to be here to get away from violent country and then do drug dealing, violent robberies and murder then it's fair to say you deserve to return to the country you came from.

Britain already has enough home grown scum, we don't need to import more trouble.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by Mclaneinc]

Originally posted by Mclaneinc


What we need to do is weed out the individuals who commit or plan to commit crime and return those who do not originate from here back to their own counties be it Iran, Iraq, Africa, Poland etc etc

exactly!!!but the problem is we have a soft government who let people walk all over them, then if we threaten to send them home the just run to europe saying it breaches their human rights because they will be killed in their own country....regardless of the fact the reason they're facing the death penalty in their own country is normally because they've committed acts of terrorism resulting in the deaths of innocent people. any other country would deport these people at the drop of a hat but being the liberal left wing country we are we instead decide to give them bigger hand outs and more rights than they deserve....i think thats where alot of this anomosity comes from.

Originally posted by onetruesaxon

Originally posted by Mclaneinc


What we need to do is weed out the individuals who commit or plan to commit crime and return those who do not originate from here back to their own counties be it Iran, Iraq, Africa, Poland etc etc

exactly!!!but the problem is we have a soft government who let people walk all over them, then if we threaten to send them home the just run to europe saying it breaches their human rights because they will be killed in their own country....regardless of the fact the reason they're facing the death penalty in their own country is normally because they've committed acts of terrorism resulting in the deaths of innocent people. any other country would deport these people at the drop of a hat but being the liberal left wing country we are we instead decide to give them bigger hand outs and more rights than they deserve....i think thats where alot of this anomosity comes from.

As I have said in a previous post, if you come here and commit murder etc then you are no different from the country you claim to be afraid of and should be returned to take your chances there rather than inflict damage to the people here.

As you say, the government are to blame but you can't blame the tryers, they see an opportunity and take it knowing how stupid these ultra PC people are.

My brother in law came here from Algeria citing he could not return home as he had ran away from the Army there. He's in favour of the extremists, hates the British, says that he has come here like his mates to make money and return home (which he has done many times). Where the British government bothered about this when I told them, were they hell.

Once he had his passport he was ok to do as he pleased, he even lied about being a Doctor to get in (a common trick) and has never actually worked as a Doctor unless you call a Phlebotomist a Doctors job. He was fired from that and worked in a betting shop while claiming benefit and basically tries to defraud the system any way he can.

Despite claiming to be a Muslim he has broken every rule in the religion hence my Mother in law won't have anything to do with him.

I see him as a criminal, not a Muslim criminal...

It's like saying all priests are nonces, no, there are priests and there are priests who are nonces...You target the nonce aspect not the belief...

[edit on 14-9-2008 by Mclaneinc]

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
reply to post by masterp

 

I would prefer to kick hate-filled neo-nazi scum like you "into the sea" first.

I will join with you mate,cant stand racists.

This article by the sun is as normal blown up to have all muslims portrayed as west haters.Its rubbish,there are extreme muslims as there are other extreme views in other faiths.There not the majority,but might come to that if bone headed knuckle on the ground draggers get their way and start a bloody mindless war with them.
IS that what the media want?rivers of blood on the streets and a rabid bunch of Brits foaming at the mouth awaiting war with Persians in the future!

Only 1% of 20-35 year old Muslims in Britain support calls for a parallel system of Sharia law, according to Ramzaan Saeed, director of the Muslim Public Affairs Council.

Politics Home

Hot_Wings - I'm curious as to whether you can back up any of the crap you seem to be writing about Islam? I've read the Quran several times, and it definitely comes off as a peaceful, fair and just book.

Quoting things out of context, or by people who are pawns of the NWO is just plain stupid. There are thousands of verses I can quote out of the Bible that, by themselves, will make the Bible look like a bloodthirsty book. On the other hand, NOT quoting the Bible out of context still makes it look like one, so I'm in a bit of a dilemma..

Hot_wings that verse is about the time they were at war, you should research it more. It's a tiny quote, taken from a huge book, thinking you understand all just by taking one part out would be ingorant, just with any other book. First you must understand it.

Read this link.
www.islam101.com...