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Muslim extremists conspiring to overthrow Great Britain

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SR

posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 02:49 AM
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Why is the old chestnut the jews have the beth din court so the muslims must have sharia always used.

When there's at a best estimate 16+ MILLION jews in the world and 1.5+ BILLION muslims and growing worldwide.

There are no reports of no go areas in the UK because of the Jewish but there are no go areas if you aren't a muslim . You not going to walk down tower hamlets in London and be stabbed by a jew for being a non jew in his area are you.

It's like comparing apples and oranges. I'm all for easing social co-operation and interaction but to pretend this has little or no future effect on non muslims within a country is a logical fallacy.

If a non muslim is in a muslim area and is charged with commiting a crime how can we guarauntee they won't be tried in a sharia law court??? It's like who watches the watchmen??? If the non muslims pleas not to be trailed under sharia law are falling on muslim ears then basically what rights have they got other than what the muslim decides to give them??

A mere word guarauntee that only certain parts of Sharia will be practiced that can be broken anytime is worthless.

People of the muslim faith can not guarauntee it either so basically british law has been superceeded. Thin edge of the wedge and all.

Enjoy Utopia.




posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 02:56 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.





Originally posted by SR
If a non muslim is in a muslim area and is charged with commiting a crime how can we guarauntee they won't be tried in a sharia law court???


I think you ranted in the wrong thread. This isn't the one about courts.

But to answer your question, the court thing deal with civil matters only, not criminal ones. Criminal law is, has been, and always will be dealt with according to British law, as governed by the crown.

Try reading what people have written.

Your argument that its ok for jews to have the Beth Din, but not ok for Muslims to have similar, based solely on numbers, is laughable by the way.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


SR

posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 03:09 AM
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Your arguement is based on what though.....As stated nothing more than a word guarantee that can be broken at anytime, There are no guarantees that it wont happen and we both know it's ignorant to suggest so.

Honour killings aren't legal or supposedly permitted in 'Modern Islam' but they still happen.

When the first person is stoned in this country for adultery it wont be legal or supposedly permitted in 'Modern Islam' but it's still going to happen sooner or later.

If there's 99 muslims in a village and one non muslim what rights does the non muslim have bar what the muslims give?

It's simple social-politics.

Sure a few imans here and there will be thrown in jail to be made example of but the horse has bolted from the stable it'll become more acceptable and the norm over time.

As i stated it may not be apparent right now but the future impact will become clearer as these things start to unravel. It's not as if our muslim friends are an ethnic miniority anymore.





[edit on 18-9-2008 by SR]



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by jiggyturbojim
reply to post by karl 12
 

But this is a muslim country already. believe me you go to any local Govt office in the UK and your first port of call will be a Muslim on the front desk.

Simply not true.

Originally posted by jiggyturbojim
We are to frightened to complain least we be called racist`s. This country is RACIST , and we are the victims ,the White man and the Black Christians who get labeled with the hate filled Muslims.


Not true, why is it I always hear stories about muslims getting stopped by police all the time while traveling in their car. And the police tell them it's because of what they look like. Does that sound like the police are scared?

Why is it I hear stories about muslims getting their windows smashed, or getting racially attacked by multiple people.


Originally posted by jiggyturbojim
The only answer is War!


Well that says a lot about you..........

Trust me you DO NOT want war, and most of the muslims also do not want war. Most of them are simply normal people living normal lives, trying to survive working a job and providing their family. Only the mad men want war.

Why would they want war?? lol

Did you just hear what you said? You said the only answer is war!? Isn't that exactly what the extremists would say too?

A war would NEVER work. Peace, education, better relationships and understanding amoung us all is what's needed.





[edit on 18-9-2008 by _Phoenix_]


SR

posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 03:42 AM
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I'll put it this way the english have sleepwalked into this one....

Even legally what are you's gonna do???

People start getting tried by sharia law, what are you gonna do??? Arrest a few imams big deal more will take there place they will be martyrs for the cause you won't be able to stop it.

You can't deport these people as there citizens of your country, you can't lock them all up or start treating them badly or genocide them like Hitler did with the jews???? I hardly think so.

Even If you outlaw Islam the arabic world will rain down thunder upon you's and you'll have the jihadi's lining up and the UN won't let you outlaw it anyway.

All you's can do is accept it really.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 04:08 AM
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reply to post by Elemensa
 


Move to Canada mate. Overall it's a better country to live in, less crime, better education system and better health system. No offense to any USA. Planning to move to Canada myself. Before all the planes in the world are grounded from lack of oil, or before muslims take over the country. One or the other.

[edit on 18-9-2008 by unnamedninja]



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 04:19 AM
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This just in...

The Indonesian Government is about to pass a "anti-pornography", bill that will see any woman found wearing a Bikini on Bali beaches arrested for committing crimes agains Islam.

Ofcourse this law also coveres other areas such as Art, written word, or even non-muslim cultural stigma (such as the Traditional Island Dancers whm preform their dance 1/2 naked).

According to the new law, being charged & convited can bring a 5 - 10 year Jail sentence.

Wow.... There goes Bali's Turism Industre....lol I Don't think too many Women want to sunbath on their beaches in Full Islamic Dress....lololol

Though mind you, the second a western woman is jailed for weraing a Bikini, I think that will be the last straw for an Australian public who already pretty much already despise Indonesian law.

But.. OMG....!!! the Indonesian Government is actually willing to sacrifice a billion Dollar industry to satisfy a bunch of screaming, ranting, chanting, Religious nuts.

But hey you know what, I just realised something..

I mean wearing all those islamic robes is OK in Saudi & the middle east, sure its hot there but its a Dry heat. Down here in the South pacific, it's a different kind of heat altogeather. Damn Hot & Sticky!!

Although Bali may lose its Resot Tourism Industry, They may make up for it as the worlds largets Womens Weight loss Center.

Those Robes will shed pounds off women in that part of the world..lolol

Indonesia could actually be onto something here


[edit on 9/18/2008 by Ironclad]



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 04:39 AM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_


Originally posted by jiggyturbojim
We are to frightened to complain least we be called racist`s. This country is RACIST , and we are the victims ,the White man and the Black Christians who get labeled with the hate filled Muslims.


Too true, the everyday, ordinary man in the street is acutely scared to speak his mind for fear of being called racist. Go into any pub / club in the land and you will here people discussing their true feelings with close friends but due to the activities of the PC brigade and other apologists, the vast majority are truly frightened to voice their true opinions openly.


Originally posted by _Phoenix_



Not true, why is it I always hear stories about muslims getting stopped by police all the time while traveling in their car. And the police tell them it's because of what they look like. Does that sound like the police are scared?


When the IRA were bombing mainland UK then it was common for cars with Irish number plates to be pulled over and checked.
This was common sense because all the terrorists at the time were Irish.
The terrorists now are Muslim.
There are no Hindu, Rastafarian, Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, Wicca, Animalistic terrorists active here in the UK!
The simple fact is that the single terrorist threat here is Islamic and so it is natural that for reasons of national security more Muslims are going to be stopped and checked.
That is just a fact of life and one that Muslims will have to accept whilst the threat remains.
Sorry, they will receive little sympathy off anyone else as long as they continue to harbour these terrorists and do very, very little to address the rise of fundamentalism within their own communities.



Why is it I hear stories about muslims getting their windows smashed, or getting racially attacked by multiple people.


There are numerous accounts of non-Muslims being attacked by Muslims.
Neither is right.
It is common to hear accounts of vandalism everywhere in Britain at the moment.
Why do Muslims always assume that any such attack against them is racially motivated?



Trust me you DO NOT want war, and most of the muslims also do not want war. Most of them are simply normal people living normal lives, trying to survive working a job and providing their family. Only the mad men want war.


I agree, the majority probably are normal people living normal lives.
Start acting like it and standing up for what is right.
Too many of these 'normal' people sympathise with or refuse to voice their opposition to the extremists.
War is evil.
But serious confrontation is inevitable unless people starting facing up to facts and addressing the core issues.
There are real and valid concerns, probably on both sides, and unless politicians and community leaders take positive action Enoch Powells vision of 'River's Of Blood' will seem tame indeed.



Did you just hear what you said? You said the only answer is war!? Isn't that exactly what the extremists would say too?


Indeed.



.......Peace, education, better relationships and understanding amoung us all is what's needed.


Wonderful sentiments and commendable.
Unfortunately the brand of Islamic fundamentalism that is rising unchecked in influence within Muslim communities is the single, biggest prevention of any such activities.
It prohibits understanding, co-existence etc and preaches domination, brutality and the imposition, by any means possible, of total Sahria Law.

I personally welcome the influx of new ideas and different cultures etc, it is what enables a society to continue growing and developing. Afro-Carribean's have contributed so much to British society, but, and it is a massive but, it should not be to the detriment to the culture and lifestyle of the British people.
Muslim extremism is an evil, hateful belief system and I and countless other 'ordinary' Britain's will not allow it spread and will take whatever step's necessary to prevent it.

[edit on 18/9/08 by Freeborn]



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 

Just wanted to commend your post freeborn. Starred! I find myself in agreement with pretty much everything you say.

Most good Brits (and Muslims) want to avoid conflict, and that's why we attempt to speak openly about our concerns - so that it needn't come to that. But yes, if concerns aren't addressed we'll face problems
.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 09:22 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


Freeborn -mighty fine post!



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Ownification
 


My, my. I love folks who get so "upset" You really need to get a bit of control. I bet you cuss at the television too.

The country of Israel is run by Zionists? If I understand the term, Zionism is a movement to set up a Jewish State. Let's see. No one in 1947 kicked out Palestinians. Most of those dummies sold their land to the Jews, who actually did something with it. Then decided they had screwed up, and wanted it back. Uh, since the Jews bought out the Palestinians, what is your problem? I paid for my house. You just try to come take it and see what happens. The law can write up an after-action report.

Wow when I read that I was like wow, what a great argument. Than I thought about it and realized that Indian Americans have houses in USA is well, wow what a coincedent. Umm they bought their houses so let's make a country of it, wow what a great idea. We have a house in New Zealand, no one gives us the right to make our own country.



The surrounding countries, as soon as they could, attacked the new State of Israel, to wipe the Jews off the face of the earth, as they have attempted several times. The local Palestinians assisted in every possible way as a group. Thus, they became enemies of Israel by their actions. If you may recall, Israel wanted nothing to do with Gaza, and tried hard to give it back, but it was so full of murderous nuts, Egypt didn't want it back, and wanted nothing to do with them. Did you forget that part? So wall it off and let them figure it out.

The other countries only trying to help the 2 Million refugees who wanted to go back home, ehh you didn't think about that?

It was sooo full of murderouse nuts, sounds like a Pirate Movies
I'm just saying you know, I mean common, soooo the Zionest decided to build a war around it. Egypt, the people of Egypt? Who are we talking about when we say Egypt, I just don't know anymore ...
Let's see. I have a homeland, and the neighbors want to wipe us out. Yep. I see your point. If I lived there, If I was Jewish - and I'm not - and was threatened with extinction, I'd be a Zionist too.



Now if you want to talk about the West Bank, it became Israeli territory in 1967 as a direct result of the war. Let me fill you in. Every single border today is the direct result of a war at one time in the past. Every single one. You don't have to like it, but it comes in real handy when understanding the ways of the world. . .


WOW I never knew that, Soo borders are created through wars, question: should the invaded people be allowed to fight the invaders? and kill them? do what ever to rid them of their lands?



You say war is killing innocents? Not exactly, but it certainly accelerates a victory. War is killing you enemy as fast as you can, in the greatest concentrations, in the greatest numbers, as efficiently as you can, and when you kill enough, you win. At some point, one side will either become unable to kill further, or become unwilling to be killed further. You don't have to like this fact, you don't have to understand this fact. This is just the way it is, always has been, and always will be.

Well Pedophiles exist too, that's just the way it is. Let's not talk about the right and wrong, that is a great way to win an argument by saying, well that is just the way it is. People get killed for no reason, well that's just the way it is. I never said war is killing innocents, what I said was that it is inevitable for civilians to die at wars, no matter how presice you are, it will happen.



Do innocents get killed? You mean "enemy enablers?" The term depends on which side of the equation you are on.





If you want to get a war over as quickly as possible, you go in very, very hard at the beginning, destroy everything your enemy holds dear, completely break your enemy's heart, destroy his will, and when the body count gets high enough quickly enough, it's over.

I have no idea where you are going with this, when did we start the discussion of how to win a war FAST?



Limited war is a hateful concept. Limited war means unlimited suffering. Unlimited war means limited suffering. Limited war enables a conflict to go on and on forever, and the total casualties, innocents included are many multiples of an unlimited war where you bring the whole package, and kill everything as you find it.

What Daaaaa

All I'm saying is that innocent people die in wars.



There never should have been a 100-Hour War, nor a Six-Day War. Clever names for unfinished business.

Great



If Israel wanted peace, they'd mark off the Gaza Strip and the West Bank with alpha-numeric designations in 1000 meter by 1000 meter grids, suitable for a random number generator. Every attack, every bombing, every tunnel attack, every rocket attack, the random number generator would be hit, and at random the selected grid would be pounded to dust. Two attacks? Two grids. Ten attacks? Ten grids. When I say pounded, I mean so completely undone and destroyed that any edifice, step, or brick would be unrecognizable.

???



No attacks, no grid destruction.

Good idea



I promise you that attacks would soon dry up. No population would allow these clowns to continue the stupidity. It would take a while of course for convincing. The downside of stupidity is that stupid people take a bit more convincing than non-stupid people.


Question: if America was invaded by Latinos, would you support the Americans who fight them. Your arguments are non-sense and all over the place, calling people who fight for their land stupid is as stupid as it gets. All I am wondering now is if you will be able to stand being a dictator longer than Saddam.

[edit on 113030p://30b9 by Ownification]



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 12:27 AM
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reply to post by Ownification
 



Than I thought about it and realized that Indian Americans have houses in USA is well, wow what a coincedent. Umm they bought their houses so let's make a country of it, wow what a great idea. We have a house in New Zealand, no one gives us the right to make our own country.


That is pretty much what Muslims are trying to do in Britain, and throughout Europe, but the first part of the plan to to out breed the locals through their brutal control of their women, then when they get close to a majority, they make their move.

For most of Islam's existance, they have essentially invaded other countries, set up their laws, and engaged a brutal practice of discriminating against all non-muslims until they converted, or were killed off, or became completely subservient. Why should anyone be upset when the Jews reclaim a piece of the Middle East, especially since that place is also special to Christians.



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 09:01 AM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 

I have to agree. I have emmigrated twice in my lifetime both to different countries. Each time I have moved, I have embraced the laws/ life style and traditions of my host country. The difference I see is that Islam is not just a religion but a complete life guide. It dictates/ controls how its followers should conduct themselves in all aspects of life. This makes it harder for followers of Islam to integrate into western societies.

Although I do not subscribe to the belief that all Muslims are extremists, most know of those in their communities that are. It is very similar to Ireland in the 80's and early 90's. Everyone knew who were IRA sympathisers/ activists were but no-one would dare stand up to them for fear of their lives and/ or livelyhoods. So although most muslims wish to live a peaceful life in the west, they are complicite to any actions carried out by their fellow muslims when they turn a blind eye to their rantings.

Now that I live in north america, I have embraced their lifestyle and culture. I still attend church and practice my religion, but does it dictate the way I live my life? No. Do I wish to demand my host country implement laws from either my country of birth or the first country I emmigrated to? No. I would consider this insulting to the country that has taken me in and given me a good livelihood and opportunity. Regardless of where you are from, respect for the rules and laws of the host country you move to should be upheld.

If people emmigrate to a country, then demand that their hosts should change to accomodate them, they should be asked to leave. I am sure if we went to the middle east and demanded we should open bars or even a christian church where ever we felt as this was part of "our culture" I am sure we would be told where to go.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Ownification
 



Than I thought about it and realized that Indian Americans have houses in USA is well, wow what a coincedent. Umm they bought their houses so let's make a country of it, wow what a great idea. We have a house in New Zealand, no one gives us the right to make our own country.


Why should anyone be upset when the Jews reclaim a piece of the Middle East, especially since that place is also special to Christians.




That is exactly my point, double standards. Why should anyone be upset when the Latinos reclaim a piece of their land. That is my question which you still haven't answered.

I can give you one reason, refugees.

ops that question was for dooped, thats why I edited.
Question: Would you accept Latinos reclaiming America as their own?

[edit on 083030p://30b9 by Ownification]



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by Ownification
 


The only think Latinos have a right to reclaim is Spain. Latinos are Europeans. How many times does this point have to be made. Learn something about the history of the U.S..



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


Freeborn I agree with everything your saying, I was simply stating the fact that muslims DO get stopped by police, the police are not scared of them, I never said that was wrong, and I understand why they stop and search them.

[edit on 21-9-2008 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Ownification
 


The only think Latinos have a right to reclaim is Spain. Latinos are Europeans. How many times does this point have to be made. Learn something about the history of the U.S..

WOW what a good way of not answering the question lol. Amazing debating skills, I have to admit.

By Latinos I meant the aboriginals of USA, remember the genocide. Yeah I'm talking about the people the genocide occur to (hence not the Jews).

I thought Latinos and Indian Americans were the same people my mistake but don't curve around the question please.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 09:16 AM
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It makes me sad to see humans acting so absurdly. Muslims are not the religion of any future and here is why.

Would you ever not force violence upon someone for something you didnt like as commonly happens in islamic countries and is made light of around the world when it does?

Can Islam start a space program or is that blasphemous to God?

Why ask or force your followers to bow to the east as though they must transfer some of there energy to the earth grid, eventually landing on a box like structure..the kabba.

Why does the religion act like bullies, even when they outnumber someone, they hold a childish attitude towards others, as though they are the rich kid and everyone else is poor?

Would islam start a charity for kids and poor people or would they just deem them sinners and put them in vats of acid?

Can islam stop teaching war and claiming that war is peace?

Islam and all religions are severely flawed because people revere words written by mankind to be words of a Godhead. Though the proof is in merely insistence, not proven fact.

One lesson I learned was this "just because everyone else jumps off a bridge, doesnt mean you have to". To me religions are like the lemmings.

I oppose human idiocy, not the true God of my soul.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:19 PM
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Once Islam gets a political voice or starts outgrowing its population, you will find that it has layers.

Some will walk away from Islam and become Chritians as their free will choice chooses them to be.

Some won't know where to go and feel stuck socially and sometimes go back to Islamic traditions to find identity.

A lot are called moderates which float in this area of cloud that has little faith but their idenity is Muslim regardless of race.

Then in that cloud you find the gravity pulling together the more traditional worshipers and the younger Western living Muslims become more serious about the subject when they reach 20.

Then marriage and social pressure of how the wife should be treated and religion comes into the overall behaviour in the next stage of living, same with most religions really.

Some are taught very young age to recite the Qur'an and be Islamic in every way and be like Muhammad in his life style and teachings.

The more determined ones who recite the teachings will find this British society full of sins and classed as Kaffers who are outside Islam.

Anything outside Islam is argued with through community pressure and court of law to please the Islamic sensativities without giving too much respect about what the majority believes, even if they say that their adopted national laws should be respected but in fact for every show of tollerance the process of intollerance has already started. You don't see

Muslims complaining for changing prayer rooms to be put down for the sake of political correctness in favour of non believers. The damage is water tight by then as their own society will fight from within to even let it happen.

Then the other stage is that the whole political religious ideology should be imposed because of what is taught in repetative divide and conquore techniques without tollerance.

The momentum will grow like a snowball while the layer of tollerant flat snow adds to make an avalache that will explode on impact on the free society. It does not need war to breed terrorism, if any Western life styles through tourism in Islamic countries occur, expect kidnappings and bombs in night clubs not because of the war in Iraq. It happens without these outside influences.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by Ownification
 


Native Americans have reservations where they live by their own customs and laws. They are free to leave these reservations anytime they choose, and a great many do just that. They blend onto society easily in our multicultural world, and can practice whatever religion or cultural they choose without harassment. The tribes of native Americans have been blending into mainstream America since the arrival of Europeans, and they do quite well, and are an integral part of U.S. culture and beliefs. There are many people of European descent who study Native American religion, and many actually practice these religions.

Most Native Americans quickly embraced European culture and especially our technology, and are proud to be a part of this country. Some Native Americans are not happy with the way things have turned out, but they are allowed to live in peace, protest against policies that they do not like, without being threatened with death, and are given the extra privileges, liike being able to open casinos on their land, when all others can not.



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