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Galveston prisoners not evacuated

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posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 11:29 PM
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reply to post by loam
 



Originally posted by skeptic1
I am a she, thanks.





My sincerest apologies. All appendage references will now be avoided.



Originally posted by skeptic1
And, questions don't bother me. Heat doesn't, either, for that matter. Sarcasm-coated insults would bother me if I wasn't quite snarky myself....
I'm thick skinned; I can take it.





Originally posted by skeptic1
To clarify my position a bit more, it's not like I'm sitting here, cackling, rubbing my hands in glee at the thought of prisoners/occupants of the county jail dying in this storm. I am not a monster.....well, at least that's the general consensus....most days.....when I am properly medicated....


My point is this: during a natural disaster, the affected areas only have X amount of equipment, time, and manpower to see to the safety of that area's citizens. That equipment, time, and manpower should FIRST go to the people who are physically and/or mentally unable to get to safety(the sick, the infirm, the elderly, the disabled, etc.) and/or help themselves.

Those are the people that I want to see the emergency management folks take care of first. My first concern isn't for criminals.

I would, however, be concerned for them if I thought the authorities were leaving them to die. That's not right at all.


I understand your point, but again, none of that has been asserted here-- not that I think that would change my position about the State's duty to its wards.

[edit on 13-9-2008 by loam]




posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by ItsTheQuestion
Thanks for being clear and mature in your response, skeptic1. I wish everyone on this thread held themselves in such a regard.


Sorry ITQ, I tried but I guess I failed. Anyone have a Galveston topo map? I can't find it on the web which embarrasses me to no end.



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


They're already reporting people on their roof tops. The flooding looks to be pretty bad.


Live Local Video

[edit on 12-9-2008 by loam]



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by skeptic1
 


Again, I understand this point too. But if dead bodies materialize, they had better have a REALLY compelling argument about why they chose to ignore a mandatory evacuation order.

Even the ones you hypothesize wouldn't be enough, imo.



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by loam
reply to post by skeptic1
 


Again, I understand this point too. But if dead bodies materialize, they had better have a REALLY compelling argument about why they chose to ignore a mandatory evacuation order.

Even the ones you hypothesize wouldn't be enough, imo.


I completely agree with you. Looking at the map, Galveston Jail seems to be right in the middle of Galveston Island, if we are talking about the same facility:

Jail Location (maybe)

If this is the right jail, there better be a damn good reason as to why this place wasn't evacuated, especially with the reports calling for the island to be basically under water with a 20-25 foot storm surge.

I'm not folding on my original stance, but the reasons for not evacuating the jail better be very compelling if anything does happen.



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 11:44 PM
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It's the jailers I feel sorry for, and their families. That has to be a terrible feeling for all of them. I'm sure the jailers want their families to evacuate so that they are safe, but the families both want to stay and leave at the same time. Yikes. What a horrible situation for them.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by skeptic1
Jail Location (maybe)


I think it's this one.

Link.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 12:12 AM
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They just mentioned the jail on the local news...

No power. Some generator. Otherwise, everyone seems ok for now.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 12:15 AM
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I have been in our county jail, arrested for writing a bad check, 40 of them, but I didn't write them, they were stolen from my mail box, I reported them stolen when I discovered all my money had been withdrawn from my account, and bad checks were coming in. A lack of communication had me sitting in the county jail for a week. I cannot imagine being under those circumstances and winding up riding out the monster storm Ike against my will.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by loam

Originally posted by skeptic1
Jail Location (maybe)


I think it's this one.

Link.


Think you are right. According to the map and the address, I think mine shows the government building, which is a block away.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 01:45 PM
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So it is the next day now... What is the consensus?

What happened with the jail? And Galveston Island in general?

I hope the whole going under thing was just an overexaturation(sp! owch)



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 02:24 PM
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I disagree with the two to one ratio for county jail inmates.
These men and women are not Hannibal Lector.
To move them you put them in leg irons and front cuff and make them get on a bus and drive to higher ground.
The officers on the bus should not even be armed but perhaps trailed by an armed escort.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 04:42 PM
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Yall know this is Texas were talking about after all right?

Also, is the jail hurricane rated? This may be the most secure and safest place to put the prisoners. While they all may not be mass murderers or death row inmates. They are criminals, and while they are serving their sentences they do not hold the same rights as other people do.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


To me, it does not seem to be a matter of "if" they will move these people, but rather that they will not do so for some vague "security reasons" they aren't allowed to tell us about.
This is a county jail, NOT a prison. There is not one of you out there that has not done SOMETHING at one time in your life that would have wound you up in the county jail if you had been caught. What if it was YOU, or your loved one in that cell? Criminals aren't a different breed of humans from another world, they are our brothers, fathers, sons, daughters, mothers, sisters. Whatever they did to be there, it isn't supposed to be a potential death sentence. And face it, we are ALL criminals. Some of us just have never been caught.
How callous and shallow we can be when we aren't personally involved.
Of course the evacuation is aimed at the "regular" population, but to flat out deny these people the chance to get away is apalling and indicative of the way our world turns in it's selfishness and apathy toward others.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by loam



Galveston prisoners still in jail
County officials earlier had ordered a mandatory evacuation for all residents. Sheriff’s officials insisted the prisoners and jailers were safe and sound, in a 2-year-old building designed to withstand hurricanes.

Did anybody see this phrase? "2-year-old building designed to withstand hurricanes. " This was most likely the safest place they could be. I have aqbsolutely no problem with leaving porisoners in a safe, secure location.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 08:53 PM
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My brother-in-law who works for the federal prison system out of Memphis was sent down there yesterday with four other buses to move prisoners if they needed, and he was all the way from Memphis.

They had the necessary people there in case something did happen, but they didn't want to move all those people if they didn't have to.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 10:35 PM
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Just wait until you get jailed for one reason or another. The you might think differently. It happens far more often for money making reasons than you know.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 11:50 PM
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While I'm posting this after the projected 20-25 surge ended up being less than 10 feet - I still think it was irresponsible of the Sheriff to have made this decision.

BTW people, jails contain both prisoners (convicts) & detainees (the accused). While convicts have lost many rights - had the storm occurred it would have most definitely been a violation of the 8th Amendment of the Constitution - Cruel & unusual punishment. For the detainees it would have been unjust punishment without having been convicted of a crime. A throwback to the days of lawless public lynchings.

Regardless of the outcome of the storm the fact that the Sheriff showed deliberate indifference regarding heath of detainees by belligerently ignoring storm warnings is a violation detainees civil rights a wanton disregard for human life and if I was a detainee I would definitely file a lawsuit against the Sheriff, City & County - unless the jail is above the level of the forecasted 25 foot surge.

Of course - we're talking about Texas here - that regularly convicts more innocent people than any other state in the Country.

The Sheriff is a civil rights violating dirty bastard and belongs in jail himself as well as anyone who agrees with his behavior. If the world was just, the penalty for his violations would result in his being buried in the sand up to his head with an anchor tied to his feet to prevent his escape while the possible tide comes in and drowns the dirty human rights violating pervert.




[edit on 15-9-2008 by verylowfrequency]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by skeptic1
Personally, I am not too concerned about prisoners being in the path of the storm. That might make me a horrible person in the eye of some, but I really don't care about the criminal population.

On a more PC note, if they were evacuated during previous storms, then they should have been evacuated during this one.

As far as the "security concern" goes, maybe they didn't have the proper officer to inmate ratio to safely move the prisoners. Maybe equipment wasn't available due to evacuations and emergency management and emergency response. Who knows, but if anything happens and there is a public outcry or serious questions about the lack of "attention" given to the prisoners, then they better have a good definition for the "security concern".


Yep I have to agree with you and no your not a bad person!

The prisoners would have been a security nightmare for sure and the best place for them is in a prison.

Remember what happened in NOLO during Katrina those inmates that were released just caused so much trouble from robbery to looting to rapes and murder.

I don't knoe the answer but letting them go free is not the solution.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 12:08 AM
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Forget your wallet or your insurance card and be jailed for a small fine.




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