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Galveston prisoners not evacuated

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posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 10:15 PM
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Galveston prisoners still in jail

An estimated 1,000 prisoners remained locked in the Galveston County Jail this afternoon, as the Hurricane Ike began battering the island city with flooding.

County officials earlier had ordered a mandatory evacuation for all residents. Sheriff’s officials insisted the prisoners and jailers were safe and sound, in a 2-year-old building designed to withstand hurricanes.

A sheriff’s office spokesman said the plan was for the prisoners and jailers to weather the storm in place — unless an evacuation took place later today. Sheriff’s office spokesman Maj. Ray Tuttoilmondo told the Houston Chronicle that the reason for not evacuating the prisoners is a security issue and cannot be discussed.



See also, Despite evacuation order, 1,000 remain in Galveston jail



WTF???


That is just too bizarre! Why couldn't it be discussed?

Why are 1000 people still there? I understand that they evacuated for Rita, so why not now???

Listening to the storm surge estimates, this may be a calamity!

Morons.

[edit on 12-9-2008 by loam]




posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 10:23 PM
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Personally, I am not too concerned about prisoners being in the path of the storm. That might make me a horrible person in the eye of some, but I really don't care about the criminal population.

On a more PC note, if they were evacuated during previous storms, then they should have been evacuated during this one.

As far as the "security concern" goes, maybe they didn't have the proper officer to inmate ratio to safely move the prisoners. Maybe equipment wasn't available due to evacuations and emergency management and emergency response. Who knows, but if anything happens and there is a public outcry or serious questions about the lack of "attention" given to the prisoners, then they better have a good definition for the "security concern".



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 10:31 PM
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Prisoners are wards of the state, and for better or worse, deserve to be handled accordingly. A guy in prison for, say, beating mercilessly someone who molested his daughter, for instance, shouldn't have his fate left to chance. He's already serving his debt to society. This is, after all, the United States of America...not Cambodia or Liberia.

That all said, prisons have some STRONG walls. Should be able to withstand wind.



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by skeptic1
Personally, I am not too concerned about prisoners being in the path of the storm. That might make me a horrible person in the eye of some, but I really don't care about the criminal population.


First, this is a county JAIL. Not a prison. So people are there who are awaiting adjudication of their cases. In other words, they haven't been convicted yet.


Many are those who couldn't post bond and are waiting for their day in court.

Have you ever visited a county court or jail? In addition to those awaiting trial, people serve time in jail for all kinds of minimal crimes.....like suspended licenses...failing to pay fines...or failing to appear for other county or court actions...

Trust me. County courts cast wide nets. And county jails are intended to only be for sort stays.

Do you really think someone deserves a potential death sentence for failing to pay parking, speeding or zoning fines?


[edit on 12-9-2008 by loam]



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 10:35 PM
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Having worked a prison, I can tell you that "weathering the storm" was also the plan of action listed on our disaster preparations. As it is, when a prisoner is transported outside the facility (hospital, etc.), it takes an ungodly amount of paperwork (don't want to lose the guy) just to prep them for transport. Then there's the transporter, at least 2 security guards (or correctional officers, as they prefer to be called) for every ONE prisoner. You see how many people (and how much time) it would take to evacuate even a medium sized prison holding only about 2 thousand prisoners?

Before you start screaming about how "inhumane and cruel" all the above sounds consider this: usually the prison really IS the safest place for them to be. Really.

That said, I haven't been keeping up with the news about Ike or how devastating it is likely to be but if there is a mandatory evacuation order then the National Guard needs to be brought in to help transport convicted felons to a safer location. Since the National Guard is a trained and efficient military branch, they will probably wait until there is a receiving facility to accommodate the prisoners. Prisoners can not just be let loose in a dome with citizens. There has to be another prison-like facility to house them temporarily.

Also, during disasters there is the need for triage and prioritization. Prisoners would be last on the list of people to be transported and not because no one cares if the hurricane sweeps them away but because of the amount of time and considerations that would go into transferring them all safely. The safety priority in our facility was: "You, the community, the prisoner" in that order. Probably not much different in Galveston.



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by loam
 


Notice, I said personally....as in "my personal opinion". I am entitled to that, whether anyone agrees with it or not.


Then, I went on to say that if they had been evacuated for previous storms, they should have been evacuated for this one. I don't want anyone to die, but there are things more important in this situation than moving possibly dangerous criminals....or possibly dangerous "arrested folks".

Again, personally, I would prefer to see all of that area's equipment and manpower being focused on protecting and evacuating law abiding citizens, the sick, the elderly, before they focus on their criminals....be they from a county jail or a prison.



[edit on 9/12/2008 by skeptic1]



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 10:43 PM
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Sorry, didn't see the part about it being a county jail, not a prison but the principle still holds. Jails are not nearly as secure as prisons. They would still require comparable facilities for transport, though, and that takes time and trained personnel to accomplish. They better get a move on.



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by skeptic1
 


Oh, I didn't say you weren't entitled to an opinion.

I'm just trying to understand what planet it comes from.





Originally posted by skeptic1
...I don't want anyone to die, but there are things more important in this situation than moving possibly dangerous criminals....or possibly dangerous "arrested folks".


What about all of the docile innocent people awaiting their day in court?

Incidentally, you are aware of what the arrest rate is in this country, right? Look that up.



Originally posted by skeptic1
Again, personally, I would prefer to see all of that area's equipment and manpower being focused on protecting and evacuating law abiding citizens, the sick, the elderly, before they focus on their criminals....be they from a county jail or a prison.


M'kay.

:shk:

[edit on 12-9-2008 by loam]



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by loam
 


My opinion comes from planet Earth.....just like yours.

How about you? Would you prefer to have that area's manpower and equipment focused on evacuating and protecting the sick, the elderly, the law abiding citizens first or the criminal population?

I am sorry if my wanting those people to have first shot at safety and help offends your sensibilities, but I feel that they are the ones that deserve the bulk of the attention of the authorities.

And like Whitewave said, there's a lot that goes into moving and transporting prisoners and/or occupants of the county jail. Would you prefer that all that manpower and time be spent on them or on the people that can't get out or get help on their own (the sick and the elderly, not to mention the citizens who aren't in jail)???



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 10:57 PM
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loam, I'm with you, in terms of your beliefs. But are you really helping the case by insulting someone else's opinion, which you're willing to allow, yet you question "what planet it comes from"?

Not cool.

I think skeptic1 is pointing out that resources should help the sick and infirm before they help prisoners.

Whether they are in a CJ, or a prison, they are prisoners. Trust me on this one.

Back to my point, you're not even debating the point. You only appear to be ridiculing him/her. So what makes you any "better"?

Don't bother ridiculing me with emoticons, either. I'm trying to be on your side here. Prisoners have rights, too. But they're understandably not high on peoples' list of priorities.




[edit on 9.12.2008 by ItsTheQuestion]



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 11:08 PM
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posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 11:11 PM
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reply to post by whitewave
 


I understand if it the safest place due to winds or tornados, but we are talking about drowing these people, guards included.



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 11:17 PM
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reply to post by skeptic1
 


You're just presenting a hypothetical case, which is not a reason presented by the Sherrif's office. He spouted some nonsense that he had to keep secret, remember?

So I reject the argument you present as irrelevant to the facts here. Unless you have statements to the contrary?



[edit on 12-9-2008 by loam]



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 11:19 PM
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That's why ppl who know they are going to jail, before they get convicted, should all the more take as many lives in self-defense of who is in their way of living free and living feed well.

Hey if they want to put you in with dangerous ppl that is grounds enough even before considering the danger of being kept somewhere because of ppl (who are killers) when mother nature strikes.

Anyone who gives the order for you to have a stay in danger is your attempt"ing" murderer.



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 11:19 PM
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The elevation and size of the jail are what matters the most here. If it is too low it will get flooded but the bars should hold the dead prisoners in the jail.



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to loam

I am relaxed. But thanks for trying to tell me what to do. I always appreciate that, adult that I am.

I tried to explain to you that I was "on your side".

You responded by mocking me.

Perhaps you should work in a prison. People with your attitude work well with prisoners.

[edit on 9.12.2008 by ItsTheQuestion]



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 11:24 PM
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reply to post by loam
 


I am a she, thanks.


And, questions don't bother me. Heat doesn't, either, for that matter. Sarcasm-coated insults would bother me if I wasn't quite snarky myself....
I'm thick skinned; I can take it.

To clarify my position a bit more, it's not like I'm sitting here, cackling, rubbing my hands in glee at the thought of prisoners/occupants of the county jail dying in this storm. I am not a monster.....well, at least that's the general consensus....most days.....when I am properly medicated....


My point is this: during a natural disaster, the affected areas only have X amount of equipment, time, and manpower to see to the safety of that area's citizens. That equipment, time, and manpower should FIRST go to the people who are physically and/or mentally unable to get to safety(the sick, the infirm, the elderly, the disabled, etc.) and/or help themselves.

Those are the people that I want to see the emergency management folks take care of first. My first concern isn't for criminals.

I would, however, be concerned for them if I thought the authorities were leaving them to die. That's not right at all.



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 11:25 PM
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Thanks for being clear and mature in your response, skeptic1. I wish everyone on this thread held themselves in such a regard.



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by loam
 


It's only a Cat 2?

Stone facility?



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by loam
reply to post by skeptic1
 


You're just presenting a hypothetical case, which is not a reason presented by the Sherrif's office. He spouted some nonsense that he had to keep secret, remember?

So I reject the argument you present as irrelevant to the facts here. Unless you have statements to the contrary?
[edit on 12-9-2008 by loam]


I repeat:

As far as the "security concern" goes, maybe they didn't have the proper officer to inmate ratio to safely move the prisoners. Maybe equipment wasn't available due to evacuations and emergency management and emergency response. Who knows, but if anything happens and there is a public outcry or serious questions about the lack of "attention" given to the prisoners, then they better have a good definition for the "security concern".

I don't know what the security concerns were, and neither do you. My above scenario could be the case due to the manpower and equipment being deployed elsewhere to deal with the storm and other citizens.

Don't reject a scenario out of hand when no one knows what is really going on.

[edit on 9/12/2008 by skeptic1]



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