The Evidence For Jesus' Existence is Overwhelming

reply to post by Deaf Alien


Actually, Yes. There are some loose connections in just about ALL religions. We can find parallels between a golf ball and gorilla if we look hard enough.

Most of the religions teach some sort of conflict between good an evil, have some belief in an afterlife, believe in a deity, believe in a creation, teach that humans have souls, teach that one day the earth will be destroyed, instruct their followers to be righteous, etc. All very general things one would expect to find.

But when you get down to the specific details of religions, most of the parallels go up in smoke.

reply to post by Deaf Alien


That is what happens when people let religion influence politics.
People have been burned at stake, even their heads chopped off, etc. for going against the Roman Catholic Church. Thank goodness things have changed.
Jerry Falwell wanted homosexuals and evolution teachers thrown in jail. He had a strong influence on politics. He was friends with some presidents. (Off topic, I went to Liberty University and talked with him on few occasions). What's next? Death penalty for all atheists?
Jerry Falwell was one of many leading preachers in nation. Imagine if they are allowed to influence politics and change the laws. I don't know your denomination but let's assume that you are a Pentecostal. What would you do if they tried to pass a law that all christians must be baptist?
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People have changed, and in most cases they/we needed to. But God hasn't changed. People have committed all kinds of atrocities in the past because of overzealous preachers, or Prophet-wannabes. That isn't Jesus or His word though, please don't throw the baby out with the bath water. And with Christianity being the dominant religion of the free world you have to accept that we aren't going anywhere. As I told you in another post, I have no intention of trying to lead you or anyone else to God. It is a thing a person must do on their own free will, that is to repent and ask God into your heart. Remember this is a public forum and one of my chief interests is Christianity and therefore I enjoy posting my opinion on it, doesn't mean I want to burn those who disagree at the stake.

reply to post by Bombeni

doesn't mean I want to burn those who disagree at the stake.

I know you don't, but that doesn't matter. If we let the church rule the nation, we will see the return of atrocities. I know that even you don't want that to happen. We have to keep on the look out. We have to defend our constitution.

reply to post by AshleyD

But when you get down to the specific details of religions, most of the parallels go up in smoke.

I know you are tired of this being brought up over and over and over again

You don't think there are parallels between Isis and Horus and Jesus?

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by Bombeni

 

doesn't mean I want to burn those who disagree at the stake.

I know you don't, but that doesn't matter. If we let the church rule the nation, we will see the return of atrocities. I know that even you don't want that to happen. We have to keep on the look out. We have to defend our constitution.

Oh c'mon, that's just ridiculous. I think there are about 30 people who follow that weirdo preacher around to military funerals and protest with him. We all laugh at them in disgust. And no one wants homosexuals locked up. You are talking about a small frings of fanatics. Let's keep it real.

reply to post by Bombeni

Oh c'mon, that's just ridiculous. I think there are about 30 people who follow that weirdo preacher around to military funerals and protest with him. We all laugh at them in disgust. And no one wants homosexuals locked up. You are talking about a small frings of fanatics. Let's keep it real.

Lol, keep it real? That is what I have been doing. 30 people? So 30 people that are very influential in politics? You keep it real. Moral Majority was a big thing. James Dobson was influential too. And many other preachers.
How many people do you think are against homosexuals? How many want the 10 commandments in front or inside courthouses? How many want creationism taught in public school? Please don't say 30 people.
It doesn't matter if some christians dont want to see homosexuals thrown in jail. Believing that homosexuals are wrong is a seed. It gives support to those who are influential.
Beliefs should be kept in church period.

Those people who doubted that Jesus Christ lived, died for the atonement of man, and rose again the third day, need to prove that HE never existed.

DO YOU HAVE EVIDENCE THAT HE NEVER EXISTED?

To those who believed can show you historical accounts.

To those who do not believed show us that HE did not. That's the great challenge for those doubters.

Heaven will smite you of your doubts, so be careful.

I,like many here,used to believe that Jesus was just another Prophet and not worthy of my attention. However, one day I had an epiphany and have now been a believer for 30 years. I am not one to try to change peoples minds about any of their own beliefs. I can only relate that I know,without any doubt whatsoever that Jesus is who He said He was---God. I can only pray that unbelievers will see the truth for what it is and believe in Him before it is too late. If you have faith,you will believe. If not,there is no convincing you.

reply to post by seabisquit


Seabiscuit, your post prompts me to share some things that have been in my heart and on my mind for some time.

That is great that you found "the truth" 30 years ago. And that you pray for others to find it. I have read some accounts lately of missionaries going into remote areas and witnessing for Jesus; they would find that the people already "knew" there was a savior but they didn't know His name. They are like starving people, not starving for food, but starving for "the truth". I fully believe that these same people are saved, whether a missionary finds them or not; it's all about THE HEART. The 139 Psalm tells me that God knows us better than we know ourselves:

O LORD, you have searched me
and you know me.
You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.
You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways. .......

I have read posts from people asking what happens to all the people who never heard about Jesus; they actually use this as a reason to not believe, because they say that is very cruel, to punish people who lived before Jesus' time, or in areas which were never evangalized, but as I said, God---The Everlasting to Everlasting---He knew/knows full well what is in the heart. He knows who would have embraced Him if given the chance, and who, sadly, would have rejected Him. No one, no matter how cagey or wise or quick with a response, can outwit our God; and no one with all the arguments they can ever think up, can take away one ounce of His Goodness and Mercy.

No, it isn't the people who didn't or haven't heard about the Gospel of Jesus who are in danger of The Judgement unless God knew that in their hearts they would have rejected Him. In my opinion, it is the ones who have heard and reject Him, some even going so far as to say cruel hateful things and lies about Him, they are the ones who should fear the most, yes I said FEAR. Then they come back and say see, what kind of God would expect me to fear Him? My answer would be, "He's God for crying out loud, and you weren't evolved from a rock, you were created by a heavenly father who only wants to love and be loved by you, He even sent His only son as a ransom, to demonstrate His great esteem for mankind---The Lamb who takes away the sins of the world---but for some of you, even this was not enough."

I would like to extend a challenge to nonbelievers, to print a copy of this psalm www.biblegateway.com... and find a quiet time alone each day for at least a week, to read it, ponder it, and remember, just for a week, open your heart and mind to the very remote possibility that Jesus is, as seabiscuit said, who He said He was---God. What have you got to lose? "For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?" Matthew 16:26

[edit on 7-10-2008 by Bombeni]

reply to post by Bombeni


But I've researched all the names you've given and none of them seem to be contemporary and Josephus seems to be a blatant forgery.... shame. Got any more names?

I prefer to believe that he was a pagan but dabbled with drugs - i hear that he used cannibis as part of his initiation. This probably helped them think clearer - despite what some people think - cannibis has actually been found to repair braincells??? Also used for various different puropses including oil, paper, clothing, rope and medicine but to name a few - think theres something quite unique about this plant - it has many uses.
i also read he was decended from King David and Mary Magdalene also from royal lineage- is there any truth in this?

[edit on 23-10-2008 by MCoG1980]

Originally posted by Bombeni

That is great that you found "the truth" 30 years ago. And that you pray for others to find it. I have read some accounts lately of missionaries going into remote areas and witnessing for Jesus; they would find that the people already "knew" there was a savior but they didn't know His name. They are like starving people, not starving for food, but starving for "the truth". I fully believe that these same people are saved, whether a missionary finds them or not; it's all about THE HEART.

Amen, Amen, Amen!

All very interesting information in your original post OP, thank you for sharing. And thank you for sharing TRUTH about it being all about the HEART! The heart is spoken of many, many times in scriptures - which goes to show it's importance. But I believe that the following scripture truly sums it up:

"Guard your heart above all else, for it is the source of life." Proverbs 4:23

[edit on 23-10-2008 by ReginaAdonnaAaron]

I am not sure what all the arguing is about. There is no point.

There is a point to one thing though.

Asking the invisible God, scientist or whatever you want to call him, whether he exists put the ball in his court, he's God, he will be able to deal with it.

My soul crys out for a God that is good. I have found Jesus and religion and church as most people knows it is a waste of time. Jesus did not start another religion.

Call me what you will, but make sure you ask god where he is, what he's doing, who he is, if he is? put it on him first.

Originally posted by Observer_X
Im not Buddhist Christian Muslim or any other label some body wants me to fit under, Im just me, born in 1973. Not 2000 years ago. I think its wise to study the world, so I do.

I like some Christians. I like some Muslims.. etc .. I do not like labelling.
Each culture has insights for us to learn if we choose.

Judging by the bible Jesus never told anybody not to read anything else did he. The bible didnt exist, Christianity never existed and he himself never liked established religion so why should we? why are there so many kinds of Christians yet just one (basic) bible? Because REASONABLY people cant agree on it all. And to be honest they are far too emotional mostly, aS some people prove with their hastey presumptions

I dont like to say it is childish and some sceptical people are trying to be reasonable and friendly from their HEARTS, because they CARE and wana find the truth out with you, friend, not shoot you down take your stuff and leave you naked.

I believe in higher sources, beings, creators, sure I do. I bet there are beings like Jesus and I respect and agree with his teachings.. as the book puts it.. mostly. I just find it completely insane to believe the bible 100% and neither did god have much faith in men, even he said (apparently it was him) that if any man take away or add words to it then likewise would be done to them and their places in heaven. And boy its been translated how many times? obviously few people are going down. lol

Another thing is Jesus told you 'you can do greater works than I, if only you had faith'

Jesus wanted people to DO what he did, act like he did, THAT is the way.. he didnt ask to be worshipped and made a martyr of while we still sit on our butts moaning and debating his existence.


And how can god be omnipresent if he isnt in everything? If he is a singular physical being then he is somewhat limited.. as is proven by the bible.

Quantum physics is getting pretty close to telling us where ''God'' has been hiding tho, but plenty of Christians dont want to believe that God has any part of him inside us. WHY not I dont know... didnt he breathe life into us?

He is just a superhuman being from outer space (oh ok heaven) and we have no control of God we are just human he does what he wants and thats it we have free will to believe or not. If not we burn..

Some choice. I have a better option, read something more positive.

That is what certain people want us to think so that we dont DO what ''Jesus'' was telling us to DO.. just BE GOD. . let him out! WAKE UP is another word we keep hearing. Be compassionate to all people, animals and things.. not snare them into our belief system and close their mind to the true wonder of Gods creation and how it works - scientifically.. we need both science to move forward and religion to put on our breaks! but the 2 have been in dispute for a long time.. well that time is up and all is now joining together as one.. some of us will go kicking and screaming.. others smiling and laughing... but we will all get there.. at - our - own - pace.

I am the truth and the way, none may get to the father but by me.

We dont even KNOW he said that! we take someones hearsay word for it. But it still makes sense how Ive explained it.. doesnt mean worship me praise me all day and and put me on a cross

He represented the way to live.. decently.

I agree theres truth in the bible but I think people have added a few words Jesus never said.. if he even existed, as Jehoshua or Yashua -- whatever his real name would have been and I think it matters a lot by the way.. just my opinion.

Love .. ME..

Edit to add my apologies if I go a bit off topic!

[edit on 13-9-2008 by Observer_X]

thank you this made a lot of sense to me and you seem to be thinking along the same lines i have for a while now

star

I have evidence that Jesus does not exist, at least as he was represented as in the Bible.

I even started a thread on it, took the Christians a long time to challange my claims, and they never did prove me wrong.

So I would like put you to the same task, I ask for 2 things:

1. An "official" document of Jesus (Birth Certificate, Traffic Ticket, Etc)
2. One, just one, eyewitness account of Jesus (Bible doesn't count, was written well after JC's death)

They tried and tried to "prove" JC was real, but in the end I still call hoax!

My Thread

Feel free to "prove" me wrong, but no one has been able to as of yet. And remember I broke the "Unforgivable sin" so there is no way you can 'save me'. This means we can have a discussion, without the worry of my soul, since it is already dammned.

--That's what I get for questioning the holy spirit, I guess I should have been like Hitler and just murdered millions!

EDIT--
While I am thinking about it, when I created my thread the 'other side' took an aweful long time to respond. I attributed this (and still do) to a "lack of defence". I only say this, for I predict a lack of responses to my post here. (Of course 'they' have to respond now, because I've called it on the carpet. (Check my thread if you think I am 'paranoid', it shows on the first page alone ))

[edit on 4/26/2009 by adigregorio]

reply to post by adigregorio


Here is my last post in that thread, maybe you can answer it since all my debators left after I asked it the last time:

Originally posted by adigregorio
An interesting side note, it seems Pandora's story is quite similar to the story of creation. Well minus Adam, and the fact that man already existed. Of course, I noticed a thread here on ATS that claimed man already existed when Adam/Eve were expelled from Eden so I figured what the heck...

Source--"Dictionary of Classical Mythology"

Pandora

The first woman created by Hephaestus and Athena, on the instructions of Zeus...Pandora was fashioned in the image of the goddesses...Pandora had hardly reached Earth when she lifted the lid of a great pot and released all the ills in the world...Other versions say that the pot contained every blessing..By opening it she let all the good things escape and return to heavens instead of staying among mankind. That is why men are afflicted with every form of evil.

Sounds similar to the apple being akin to sin, and that is why men are born into this world with sin.

As for virgin births, I am through "S" in the dictionary and no more have come forth. But I ran a google search on virgin births, and a plethora of links were given.

Since no one has asked for more examples I am going to leave it be for now, and resume the main topic. In my opinion, Jesus was not represented truthfully in the Bible. All accounts of his deeds are hearsay, at least the ones that have been provided so far. I have yet to see any proof that the gospels were written by eye witnesses.

I have been finding myself wondering what the average lifespan was back in 37AD. I am sure some research will show an approximation. This, paired with what we have been told with regarding the death of the gospel writers might come in handy. This is only if the topic is going to turn to the angle that the gospels were written by eye witnesses.

And let us not forget about allegory, which was highly common in the gospel days...

al·le·go·ry /ˈæləˌgɔri, -ˌgoʊri/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[al-uh-gawr-ee, -gohr-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -ries.
1. a representation of an abstract or spiritual meaning through concrete or material forms; figurative treatment of one subject under the guise of another.
2. a symbolical narrative: the allegory of Piers Plowman.
3. emblem (def. 3).

Source

So even if the gospels were written by someone that had been present, how do we know that it is not an allegorical document?

Originally posted by Bombeni
What can we say about the history of Jesus? Is it reasonable to conclude that Jesus never existed, based on the weight of all the historical evidence?

Yes. It's very unlikely that Jesus from Nazareth ever existed.

Originally posted by seabisquit
I,like many here,used to believe that Jesus was just another Prophet and not worthy of my attention. However, one day I had an epiphany and have now been a believer for 30 years. I am not one to try to change peoples minds about any of their own beliefs. I can only relate that I know,without any doubt whatsoever that Jesus is who He said He was---God. I can only pray that unbelievers will see the truth for what it is and believe in Him before it is too late. If you have faith,you will believe. If not,there is no convincing you.

Hey, that's awesome. That's so good to hear. I pray the same too.
People always talk about how people who preach the bible are so condemning, but really, when we talk to others about Jesus, it should be GOOD news. The bible says "go forth and preach the good news" not doom and gloom, telling people they are going to hell. People shouldn't become Christians out of fear.

Whether or not Jesus existed, in the long run, is irrelevant. It's common knowledge to anyone who has studied religion to a greater degree than "believe what they tell me to believe" that Jesus' original teachings were mainly about reincarnation and meditation.

You're trying to prove the existence of a messiah who's message his mainstream worshipers don't even listen to.

It was Paul who took over Christianity, it was Paul who wrote the laws, the code of conduct, who masterminded the government tie-ins, and so on..

And it was Paul who killed any truth in the Christian religion.

Do I have a link to a source? No, but it isn't hard to dig up for yourself. I don't plan on looking at this topic again so any questions, criticisms, or angry rants you have for me, please send to me personally.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by Deaf Alien

 

Actually, Yes. There are some loose connections in just about ALL religions. We can find parallels between a golf ball and gorilla if we look hard enough.

Most of the religions teach some sort of conflict between good an evil, have some belief in an afterlife, believe in a deity, believe in a creation, teach that humans have souls, teach that one day the earth will be destroyed, instruct their followers to be righteous, etc. All very general things one would expect to find.

But when you get down to the specific details of religions, most of the parallels go up in smoke.

\

Uhm, no. They don't, actually.

This I -WILL- give a link to, just because of your hilarious ignorance to the astounding parallels in religions. Christianity is basically a spinoff of 500 religions preceeding it, with it's Messiah's entire story being based off of astrological events.

www.religioustolerance.org...

If you want to really get into this, Jesus is just Horus (One of the Egyptian Gods) 2.0

And as far as being nailed to the cross and dying for man goes..

Odin was hung from a giant tree which he then speared himself to in order to gain knowledge to share with humanity.

Christianity... A good idea made and used for all the wrong reasons. .....In my opinion *cough*