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The Evidence For Jesus' Existence is Overwhelming

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posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by JaxonRoberts
 





And ignorance is bliss!


If it was more people would be happy



Nothing changes though.
Modern state of Israel was created and many of the locals got kicked out and war started again....and i'm sure to many Jews it is God's will and he supports them all the way.




posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


I have moments like that too....in fact i'm having one now.lol.

The verses you asked about,do you mean the prophecy ones?



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
The verses you asked about,do you mean the prophecy ones?


No- whatever it was in your ex quotes.

Are we air heads or what?



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Definatly.lol

I've just had one of those days,i'm sure people have thought that i must be a natural blonde



Btw,you might like this page,it does exactly what the title says.Which is a great help to people like me.lol.
www.clarifyingchristianity.com...



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


Thanks a bunch, I bookmarked it. THIS is an article series I wrote on the subject a few years ago.

I was asking if you knew what they were to make sure we were on the same page before I built my reply off the Messianic prophecies. But, alas, this pseudo-blonde forgot what she was going to say.



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 02:55 AM
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Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by undo
 


Do you believe that the decendents of sons of God and daughters of men were evil?

Just curious coz in Genesis 6:4 it says the offspring of these sons and daughters became mighty men and men of renown.Now renown means to be highly honored and acclaimed,to have an exalted reputation derived from the extensive praise of great achievements or accomplishments.This doesn't sound like the description of a wicked person.



Part of the problem in unravelling ancient history, is the freaked up mess we call a timeline. Perception is also a problem. For example, we assume the books of the Pentateuch (first five books of the old testament) were written down, chronologically and at the time of the events. This is not so.

For example, references to the giants (word is "feller", the fallen ones, the tyrants and the unresurrectable) being the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of men, were maintained in an oral tradition until Babylon. Before then, it wasn't written down.

By then, the advent of Nimrod, Narmer, Gilgamesh, Osiris and a host of other references to the same tyrant, had already transpired. Images of the tyrant, who is several times larger than his slaves, gripping them by their hair, or pulling them along by rings in their noses, had already been created and used to depict the majesty and god-like aspects of that ruler. This was also the case in ancient sumer.

You really need to read the sumerian texts. It makes a huge difference. You have to read them threw the filter of the biblical texts, however, so you can see where the variances happen and ask yourself -- why are they different?

when the text says "mighty men", it's drawing your attention to 1 of 2 things (at the least) -- nephilim or angels of some capacity. in some cases, the event is heroic. in other cases, it is tyrannical. sadly, there's no way to cherry pick them apart, except the context in which the event is described. there's some small help in reading the accounts from the mainstream perspective of the time in which the event occured. I mean, it's a safe bet if the people of Uruk were praying for Gilgamesh to get a wife so he'd quit raping the females of his kingdom (and the guy didn't care what age they were. he raped children, teenagers, middle aged and elderly females), that he was not exactly a fun leader.. in fact, he was one of the nephilim tyrants. how do you think they built civilization?

history is your friend.

[edit on 20-9-2008 by undo]



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 04:58 AM
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reply to post by Bombeni
 


I do not believe in an absolute God, but I still have my life, happy, etc.

To me, having a God or dedicate my life to Jesus does not mean anything. I am not a robot to be told what is right and wrong, I know that. Even Christians I know has done things that are so wrong. Even Christians are subjected to disease, sickness and death.

So where are the difference? I will tell you the difference...

- Time spent in Church? Somewhere I can be happier like court room where offenders or suspect admitting their guilt.
- Reading and memorising Bible, I will rather read wall street and current affairs, we live in the world we create. (if you say God created the world... then I say he created hell... on earth)
- Donate to the Church? I rather donate to Charity and the needy
- Help fellow Christians in Church, I rather be a volunteer and help more people

Huge Christian Population Proves Something?
When a stronger state takes over a weaker state, religion are usually forced onto them. When Spanish, Portuguese, English... etc took over colonies, they forced Christianity onto the local people and tried to retard the local religious beliefs and events. Gradually, Christianity is accepted athough some merged with local customs and tradition.

Come to think of it, from the time of Christ till now, there are almost non stop violence, prosecutions, of Christians, Holywar (mainly for booty and control of trade) prosecutions of non-Christians. What happen to "Love Thy Neighbours?"

Followers of other ANCIENT religion claimed that their God favour them and shown them his presence, assisted them in their problems yada yada and so on. Now we know that their so called Gods are a fabrication. But how can this be a fabrication when they swear that they had indeed seen their God and so on? Delusioned? Tricks of Satan? Maybe the same can be seen for Christianity?

Please open up your eyes and look at it in another angle. I am not telling you to give up your religion. Heck we have nothing to gain even if you do want to give up.



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 





I was asking if you knew what they were to make sure we were on the same page before I built my reply off the Messianic prophecies. But, alas, this pseudo-blonde forgot what she was going to say.


Lol.Well,build away.

I know the Bible cover to cover,and do actually believe in God and Jesus,i just like to play Devil's advocate.(picture wicked smirk right here,lol)

Thank you for the link.



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


I remember now. It was back when we were discussing the alleged differing personalities of the OT and NT God. On top of the other things I said, I was trying to point out how the Messianic prophecies speak of two specific advents- one where Jesus would come as a humble, suffering servant and shepherd then again as the righteous non-nonsense judge to bring judgment once and for all on all the people who rejected Him and to restore creation. So the two supposedly differing personalities really don't exist. Even during His first advent Jesus didn't coddle anyone when it came to sin. He simply offered grace during what we refer to as 'the church age.'



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 





I remember now. It was back when we were discussing the alleged differing personalities of the OT and NT God. On top of the other things I said, I was trying to point out how the Messianic prophecies speak of two specific advents- one where Jesus would come as a humble, suffering servant and shepherd then again as the righteous non-nonsense judge to bring judgment once and for all on all the people who rejected Him and to restore creation. So the two supposedly differing personalities really don't exist. Even during His first advent Jesus didn't coddle anyone when it came to sin. He simply offered grace during what we refer to as 'the church age.'


I think what some people fail to understand as well is that the OT is more God centered than the NT,which is Jesus centered.This effects peoples perceptions.


I used a Julius Casar example earlier because its a good way of showing why people question the authenticity of Jesus and the Bible.My answer to those who try and make you prove through your faith the evidence of the truth is this;Faith is something you can feel,but cannot touch.Faith is an experience of the spiritual world,not the material world.


There has never been any concrete evidence to prove the existence of any God or any divine person anywhere,so it should be no surprise that its the same way in the case of Christianity.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 03:08 AM
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There has never been any concrete evidence to prove the existence of any God or any divine person anywhere,


your above statement is not exactly true. for example:



April 29, 2003

Archaeologists in Iraq believe they may have found the lost tomb of King Gilgamesh - the subject of the oldest "book" in history.

Photo: Gilgamesh was believed to be two-thirds god, one-third human

The Epic Of Gilgamesh - written by a Middle Eastern scholar 2,500 years before the birth of Christ - commemorated the life of the ruler of the city of Uruk, from which Iraq gets its name.

Now, a German-led expedition has discovered what is thought to be the entire city of Uruk - including, where the Euphrates once flowed, the last resting place of its famous King.

'Venice in the desert'




news.bbc.co.uk...

of course, it isn't the last resting place of Gilgamesh, since he left for Egypt after the fiasco at the Tower of Babel, and since he's also Osiris, if you believe their stories, he was mutilated into several pieces and buried all over egypt

his title list thus far is:
gilgamesh
enmerkar
narmer
nimrod
osiris
asar






[edit on 22-9-2008 by undo]



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


The discovery of Troy hasn't proved the existence of Achilles,Hector etc,but it makes it possible.The same goes for the discovery of Uruk.But its hardly concrete evidence.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by undo
 


The discovery of Troy hasn't proved the existence of Achilles,Hector etc,but it makes it possible.The same goes for the discovery of Uruk.But its hardly concrete evidence.


well it appears a few well-placed individuals do, such as the head of the supreme council of egyptian antiquities, dr. zahi hawass. you can't do anything related to egyptian antiquities, without his permission. and he's convinced osiris' burial chamber actually exists, somewhere in egypt.
this was also true for Seti I (the first), and several pharaohs before him, who were excavating most of Abydos and Naqada in an effort to find the burial chamber of Osiris. Seti I thought he found it when he decided to build his own temple in Abydos and the excavators ran smack into an even more ancient edifice that has since been called the Osirieon. as i said, history is your friend.

[edit on 22-9-2008 by undo]



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 04:17 PM
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I just read this on Dave Rabbit's Is Religion Simply A Security Blanket? thread and found it to be truly profound! I thought I would share it on the other spiritual threads I'm following.


Originally posted by plato63
The story, although originating in India, is almost certainly a Buddhist parable, attributed the man - Gautama Buddha himself. The story is of 6 blind men wandering upon an elephant, one finding the tail, another the ear, another the leg, etc. feel exited that they have seen something new (elephants were common in India then
). They chance to meet up with a wise man (a non blind man) or the king and tell him the exiting news. However, they soon find that their individual descriptions do not match with the others, and therefore start fighting among themselves.

You certainly did get the moral of the story though (my respects). If GOD is so "huge", creator of the universe, beyond good or evil, beyond time, etc, how can we as mortals say that we "know" him. It is quite possible that we have touched only a part of HIM. If we accept that arguement then the only way in which we can "know" what GOD looks like is by amalgamating the information from all religions, and yes, even the athiests cause they may have touched a different part of HIM that the others did not. All roads lead to GOD (this idea is borrowed), but can only reach GOD once they have united and become one.


I would encourage all to visit Dave's thread, but PLEASE follow the 'NO FLAMING!' rule!



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by undo
 





well it appears a few well-placed individuals do, such as the head of the supreme council of egyptian antiquities, dr. zahi hawass. you can't do anything related to egyptian antiquities, without his permission. and he's convinced osiris' burial chamber actually exists, somewhere in egypt.


Dr Hawass


Sorry,but that guy gets on my tits,and not in a good way.


Personally i believe that any or all of the divine beings we know about could have existed or still do exist.

Many people think that a myth is something that is completely untrue,but the meaning has changed over time.A myth used to mean a story that had its origins in fact,it was an oral tradition.Mythos literally means the telling of the story.The story being something taken from events that had actually happened.


In the Greek heritage of the West, myth or mythos has always been in tension with reason or logos, which signified the rational and analytic mode of arriving at a true account of reality. The Greek philosophers Xenophanes, Plato, and Aristotle, for example, exalted reason and made trenchant criticisms of myth as a proper way of knowing reality.

inst.santafe.cc.fl.us...



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by JaxonRoberts
 



2. Do they simply go through the motions because they are too afraid of the consequences .... just in case there is a Heaven or Hell?

3. Is it simply a security blanket because they want to believe that there is something better after they die and would be miserable if they didn’t believe there was something at the end of the religious rainbow?


I think this is very true for a lot of people.



I think though,that in this day and age more people are moving away from organized religions and more to the spiritual,which is a good thing because faith isn't about controlling someone else its about believing and following through choice.

"People are leaving the church and are going back to God."
Good quote,but i can't remember who said it.





[edit on 22-9-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 03:41 PM
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I read an interesting webpage about Pontius Pilate and here it is for your critique
www.livius.org...
Is it absolute proof of Jesus' existence? No, not in and of itself. It is just one more of hundreds of clues that can only lead to one conCLUsion, that Jesus did in fact live and further that he performed miracles and that his life had an impact unrivaled by history.

Consider the hundreds of Messianic prophecies fulfilled. Did the OT prophets as well as the NT prophets, disciples, historical writers, governors, emperors, etc. all play a part in a conspiracy to fabricate The Son of Man?

Some related reading, further expands on the Acts of Pontius Pilate, some of it is redundant but well worth a look.

www.biblehistory.net...


[edit on 26-9-2008 by Bombeni]



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
I think though,that in this day and age more people are moving away from organized religions and more to the spiritual,which is a good thing because faith isn't about controlling someone else its about believing and following through choice.


I couldn't agree more. Too many try too hard to convince others that theirs is the only way back to 'God'. I'm not sure why they feel compelled to do this, but they are. In the end, you are responsible for the development of only one soul, yours. How you do that, be it through Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddism, Paganism or none of the above, is your choice, and none are wrong. What is wrong is the seemingly endless attempts to force others to follow your path. Spirituality is a path dealing with that which is unprovable. Words from ancient texts do provide good advice on how to find that which is intangible, but none are the end all be all Divine word. To use them as history books, however is misguided. The Divine is not interested in the affairs of man.

To quote Jesus, "Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's, and render unto God what is God's". The material affairs of man come under the 'Ceasar' category, purely spiritual matters come under the latter. Last night I spent 3 hours in debate with someone vehemently opposed to evolution, because the origin of life and what has occured since came under 'faith' to him/her. What they just didn't get is that anything dealing with the 'material plane of existance' belongs in the 'Ceasar' column, such as the scientific explainations of the evolution of the Universe. Science has not and never will disprove the existance of 'God'! Science='Ceasar' Spiritual Growth='God' I simply cannot put it in a simpler fashion.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 05:19 PM
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While the evidence of Jesus' existance may be overwhelming, the evidence that he was crucified and rose again is lacking


Just my opinion, no offence intended



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 


There's secular historical documentary evidence He was crucified under Pilate but the resurrection account is only found in Christian sources, obviously. lol



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