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The Evidence For Jesus' Existence is Overwhelming

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posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by Mohrphaeus
 





He wouldn't leave without a REAL AMAZING proof. Faith was sufficient for the last 20 centuries


If faith is sufficient then no proof is needed.

And faith does not stop other religions from dying,usually at the hands of Christianity and Islam.





He died due to gravity of all injuries and have his chest trespassed by a roman javelin through his right lung until reach his heart, to confirm his death. The correspondent fluids can be easily found today.



All tests make mention of blood on the cloth but not water.

John 19-34

But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.


You would expect to find that too.





[edit on 17-9-2008 by jakyll]




posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 09:38 PM
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There are so many religions on this planet.
Many are thousands of years older than Christianity.

All to spread the word.....to teach the masses.

The Christan belief system is in reality a very young one.
Many many religious belief systems were well established long
before Jesus made his appearence.
The majority of religious beliefs, before Christanity,had
many Gods and many saviors visiting the planet;.

Some in the form of offspring ,some as mighty prophets,
some as a manifiestation of the God, a lesser Deiety.
They took the forms of animal,half human,Earth changes,
climate changes,human form,the sun, moon, stars,comets...etc.

Most include Demonic entities that made appearances
in some of the same affor mentioned forms.Many took
posession of what ever was available to enter into.

Each and every Religious belief system with or without written
docterines, demands prayer(of some type), sacrifices(ost) total
dedication (every second of every day) pleasing a Supreme
Being. Making sure the God or Gods are appeased at all times.

Most are very colorful romantic anthologys with lots of love and devotion, to the god(s)
In the same breath most are filled with cunning,trickery,lust,greed and power struggles that lead to wars and multitudes of humans, being out and out slaughtered.

All to appease the god(s)

Many people claimed to speak directly to the gods.

Today many people make the same claim.

Some of these religions recognize all religions that believe in a God , as true.

Can so many others who believe in appeaseing a God be discounted so easily ??

Who spoke to the people before christianity made its appearance on earth??
Could it be the same God.. With different words for different times ??



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 04:42 AM
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Originally posted by Bombeni




What do you want as hard evidence? The lunchpail he carried?


I know this may sound crazy, especially to people with such strong held beliefs but... just off the top of my head I would have to suggest ANYTHING. Anything at all would be cool. That might do it for me. Any tangible thing.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 05:14 AM
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reply to post by MorningStar8741
 


be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.
and we both know, you don't want to read it or see it. and if you did read it or see it, you'd be sure to employ the ever-receeding evidentary horizon...always just a few steps out of reach (a commonly used tactic to deny alien encounters, ufos and a host of other topics). so why the charade? if you already know the answer, why ask the question?



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 06:57 AM
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Do people doubt that Julius Caesar existed? Well, there is more evidence (manuscripts) that Jesus Christ existed than Julius Caesar. And the fact that Jesus Christ has changed more people's hearts for good without weapons, than any other man or armies or parliaments that ever sat is more than proof enough of his divinity. There is also the bible which foretold of his coming. As mentioned in the book of Isaiah the prophet which was found amongst the dead sea scrolls (the entire book found about 1950) which predates Jesus. (see Isaiah chapter 53) Also proving the modern version of the book of Isaiah to be a highly accurate translation.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by azureskys
 


You forgot The Church of Jim Jones/Murdering Junkie,

The Church of Jesus/David Koresh/Guy with a Napolean Syndrome

The Church of David Berg/Children of God/Child Molestor Ring-----

I could go on and on.

There is only One TRUE God. Plenty of FALSE ones though.

God gave this instruction to Moses: Thou shalt have no other gods before me. He knew there would be lots of competition, but there's not much room at the top.

There are cases of missionaries going into secluded tribes, and finding they already know there is ONE God, and that there is a Savior, they just don't know the name of the Savior yet. They haven't been influenced by phony religions or scam preachers, the truth is in their hearts and they eagerly welcome the identity of this person they knew existed, and already communicate with.

[edit on 18-9-2008 by Bombeni]



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by Bombeni
 


I agree, there is only one God, but which one is it? The Christian God and the Jewish God (the one who spoke to Moses, allegedly) are definitely not the same God! Anyone who has read the entire Bible should be able to clearly see this! The God of the Old Testament is a vengeful, misoganistic, genecidal SOB, while the God of the New Testament is all about the love! I intentionally left out the Gods of other religions, but it seems that The Jewish God and Allah seem to be closely related. Brothers maybe?



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by JaxonRoberts
 


Where does this come from? Seriously.

OT God: Love and Judgment.
NT Jesus: Love and Judgment.

OT God: numerous times expresses His love and mercy.
OT God: numerous times warns and acts upon his warnings of judgments.

NT Jesus/God: numerous times talks about love and mercy.
NT Jesus/God: Blasts the pharisees repeatedly, overturns the temple tables, and teaches the doctrine of Hell.

Both love, both mercy, both judgment.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


It comes from reading it repeatedly, cover to cover! I tend to agree with your assessment of the New Testament God, but your interpretation of the Old Testament God makes me think you haven't even read the thing!

Exodus 34:

10 And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the Lord: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee. 11 Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite. 12 Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee: 13 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, [1] and cut down their groves: 14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: 15 Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice; 16 And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods. 17 Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.

Show me one passage from the New Testament where God suggests genocide or that his name is Jealous? There is archelogical evidence that the Isrealites wiped out all of the people that inhabited 'the Promised Land'! These nomads used their 'God' to justify genocide to take the lands of other people, and rape their women? Nice guy, huh? I could go on and on with examples of the differences!



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by JaxonRoberts
 


Oh, there are definitely a difference in laws. Such as stoning an adulterer but then Jesus comes along and stops the stoning of the adulteress. Or an eye for an eye philosophy of the OT but then Jesus saying we are to turn the other cheek. However, all that is is the replacement of the Old Covenant Law with New Testament Grace. God didn't change- our covenant was fulfilled as promised. But the fact remains, the covenant was fulfilled and we are now under grace instead of the law but that was promised in advance. Yet, we still see the principles of love and mercy vs. judgment.

For some reason Jesus has a stereotype of being somewhat of a lax pushover but this is not true. In some circumstances He comes across as even more severe than the OT laws He fulfilled. Jesus didn't play around even thought He makes it 'easy' for us through grace.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


You and I apparently read two different books. Either that, or you have not read it objectively. On a site made for those who view the 'facts' of the world skeptically, those of you who refuse to do so might just be in the wrong place. 'JFK was a conspiracy, but don't you mess with the Bible!' I notice from your signature that you refuse to look at this subject with anything even resembling an open mind. 'Nuf said!



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by JaxonRoberts
 


LOL! You're right. I am totally aware I come across as close minded to other people when it comes to the Bible. That is because it is a 'case closed' issue for me and I say that without shame or apology.

However, on topic: For some reason there is a misconception that the 'God of the OT' rains fire and brimstone down on people for so much as breathing out the wrong nostril while Jesus is our buddy who lets us get away with murder. But this simply isn't true. God did not change, the covenant did. I don't know what else to say to get this point across. Compare 'the fall from grace' to being 'under grace.' Jesus restored us to grace instead of the law and instant punishment as promised. It really isn't a case of one angry God vs. a God that is lax.

So I have to agree and say we must be reading two different Bibles because the story is very clear. God did not change, only the covenant and the order via restoration of grace. However, judgment WILL still come according to Jesus. I said in some sense He was even more severe. While there might have been earthly fire and brimstone judgments in the OT on our material bodies, Jesus taught fire and brimstone in the NT for our spiritual eternal bodies. That, to me, is a heck of a lot more harsh than OT judgments. Just my two cents. It's not a case of a vengeful God vs. a 'Hey it's all good!' God.

Oh, and about my sig: EVERYTHING on that bingo card is something I have debated COUNTLESS times on ATS and elsewhere. I'm sick to death debating it and THAT is why they were included. They're not subjects where my head is buried in the sand- they're deflection attempts that have been answered in hundreds of threads only to resurface in another thread as another off topic tangent.

[edit on 9/18/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 05:11 PM
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Gday,


Originally posted by thematrix
Not to mention there is as much "evidence" Moses


There is no evidence for Moses.
He's clearly a myth.

Kapyong



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 05:20 PM
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Gday,


Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Do people doubt that Julius Caesar existed? Well, there is more evidence (manuscripts) that Jesus Christ existed than Julius Caesar.


Not true.

We have contemporary historical evidence for Julius Caesar :
* books written by him
* statues of him done while alive
* coins showing his likeness
* archeological evidence of his actions
* records from contemporaries

For Jesus we have nothing like that - just stories and beliefs from long afterwards.


Kapyong



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 





For some reason there is a misconception that the 'God of the OT' rains fire and brimstone down on people for so much as breathing out the wrong nostril while Jesus is our buddy who lets us get away with murder. But this simply isn't true. God did not change, the covenant did. I don't know what else to say to get this point across. Compare 'the fall from grace' to being 'under grace.' Jesus restored us to grace instead of the law and instant punishment as promised. It really isn't a case of one angry God vs. a God that is lax.


JaxonRoberts brings up a valid argument.The Divine "justice" that is rife in the OT appears nowhere in the NT.

And which covenant are you talking about?
Love thy neighbour?
That one appeared in the OT way before Jesus was around.

Like Lewis Black says,its as if the God of the OT was a raging alcoholic and possibly it was the birth of his son that calmed him down.
Because they really are infinatly different from each other when it comes to the afore mentioned justice.





Both love, both mercy, both judgment.


One supports war,one commits genocide on a scale no man could ever achieve,one allows 1000's who weren't killed to be sold as slaves because they land they lived in wasn't promised to them.One commits wickedness on smaller scale too;Moses followed gods every commandment,but doesn't get to see the promise land.(cruel).Abraham has to go through the trauma of the possibility of to having to sacrafice his son.(even crueler.)
But does the other do this??

I won't go on coz i know you've heard it all before









[edit on 18-9-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by MorningStar8741
 


be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.
and we both know, you don't want to read it or see it. and if you did read it or see it, you'd be sure to employ the ever-receeding evidentary horizon...always just a few steps out of reach (a commonly used tactic to deny alien encounters, ufos and a host of other topics). so why the charade? if you already know the answer, why ask the question?


It is interesting how so many of you can assume and judge soooo well. You all know what all people who are not like you will do. How do you know how open minded I am? How do you know that it would not take just one simple real thing to sway me and then you would have helped bring another soul to God? Well, I guess you never will because instead of even trying, you just dismiss me outright and toss a cheap judgemental shot and drive on by. How very Christian of you. And yo got three stars for tossing me away like so much garbage. How very Christian of them.

I would be delighted in proof of Jesus or anything else that would prove to me there was this God. Nothing would bring me to my knees faster and I would follow every rule, every tiny little thing he wanted me to. I would start with not judging others, since he did have some thoughts on that, didnt he?



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 


We just do not care if Caeser exsisted because noone is trying to make money off of it now (tithing for caeser?,0 no one comes to my house to convince me that I am a loser for not believing in caeser, no one is trying to steer legislation in his name, no one is getting to play musical churches to molest kids in his name,....i can go on.

[edit on 9/18/08 by MorningStar8741]



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 06:56 PM
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reply to post by JaxonRoberts
 


You may have read it cover to cover many times - but you may have missed the context - and possibly the lineages which are extremely important.....

In Genesis there is are two separate lines - one from Seth (who replaced Abel) and one from Cain..notice that the line of Cain uses names almost identical to the line of Seth and it is from the line of Cain that these idolatrous tribes eventually come - so the conflicts played out in Exodus and other parts of the OT are ancient indeed.....especially if one considers that that Genesis itself was orally passed on for many centuries before it was set to parchment..

God exhorts His people many times not to mingle with the children of Cain...because they are idolators, and practice human sacrifice among other abhorrent practices...as well as raiding the encampments of the Israelites on a regular basis.

And along this same line of thinking - As to turning the other cheek that Ashley mentioned - Yeshuah says: But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. "

however once I've turned my other cheek - I've no cheeks left to turn nor does the word indicate that I endlessly do so - and if the person who struck me wants to keep at it at that point all bets are off....



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 07:08 PM
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reply to post by realshanti
 


I did not miss it, I dismissed it, as the lineage in Genesis is laughable at best, unless we are de-evolving as a species. It still does not justify genocide, nor does it disprove my point as to the difference between the Gods of the OT and NT.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
JaxonRoberts brings up a valid argument.The Divine "justice" that is rife in the OT appears nowhere in the NT.


Um... Hell? lol Again, to me that sounds much more severe than any of the judgments mentioned in the OT. Jesus didn't mess around.


And which covenant are you talking about?
Love thy neighbour?
That one appeared in the OT way before Jesus was around.


No... The law covenant vs. grace covenant.

As for your other question: I must first ask this- what do you know about the Messianic prophecies?




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