The Cheapening of the Democratic System via Sarah Palin

reply to post by buddhasystem


That's actually what makes liberals so pathetic. They see no value in character. That is why we are all now slaves to a bunch of banksters, why we have the federal reserve, why we are involved in endless foreign wars, why our currency is nearly worthless, why we have no trade barriers to slave labor economies and why we essentially live in a state controlled socialist hell hole. All because of a basic lack of moral character and the desire to line one's own pockets instead of helping others. Self sacrificial leadership is the hallmark of a moral man or woman, instead we have Clinton or Obama or Woodrow Wilson who created the federal reserve.

Whatever a moral person lacks in knowledge can be supplied by wise advisors. Yes my friends CHARACTER is the most important trait of any leader. Because we now despise basic moral instruction, we are now reaping the whirlwind.

Other than that I don't feel strongly about it.

[edit on 15-9-2008 by SevenThunders]

[edit on 15-9-2008 by SevenThunders]

The most confusing part of this original post to me is the claim by the poster that it's unfair that McCain picked his VP choice "this late in the game". Vice Presidential choices are always "late in the game", it is how the game is played. Now if the argument is that McCain picked someone who was not a bright blip on the radar screen, then that also is a questionable argument, because notoriously Presidential candidates try to obscure who their choice is until the last minute for obvious reasons. Is the argument that McCain chose someone who was unvetted "by the popular press" and thus the "popular press" were left reeling and scrambling to find ways to publish their agenda and thereby control the voters...that seems most likely to me.

I find it amusing also when anti-Palin posters scream it's unfair that the Republicans chose Palin because they can't criticize her as a woman, when these same people would have gladly played the "gender card" and are very effectively playing the "race card" in their own campaigns.

Here is how I see it, no candidate, white, black, female or male should be above reproach and should be above being questioned about his or her background. It stinks just as much when Democrats cry foul play when Republicans question Obama's suitability for office and claim they are being racist, as it does when Republicans cry foul play and claim Democrats who question Palin's suitability for office is based on some anti-female stance. The fact is, politics is a game of brutality and the person who dodges the most punches and looks the best while getting battered by an opponent while landing some good punches as well is the likely winner. Any person, black or white, female or male who can't take the heat and isn't willing to be slandered and libeled (because face it that is what American politics has come to like it or not) has no business in the game in the first place.

Here's my view for what it's worth...was Palin the best choice for the ticket--it depends on what you want to happen. Was she the most qualified--no. Will she bring lots of votes to the ticket by people who the republicans desperately need to win--women over the age of 35...likely. Is she ready to be President on day one...probably not, but luckily she will have many advisers to help her get ready fast.
Now for the flip side...was Obama the best choice for the ticket...not in my opinion, Hillary has more experience and is much better vetted than Obama. Does Obama bring a large percentage of much needed voters to the polling place on election day the democrats sorely need to win--the African American vote...of course he does! Is he ready to be President on day one...i find that questionable as well, but luckily he will have many advisers to help him get ready fast.
I have to say, and many will disagree, if one is voting on sheer experience and being fully vetted that McCain is the most logical choice for the man who would be ready to be President on day one. Does that mean I like McCain...not at all, but I would be comfortable knowing that he does have much foreign policy experience, he is known to stray from the party line, and he is friendly with both sides of the aisle in Congress. I'm still not a fan of his politics though, so who does one vote for?
Obama to make a stand against the Republican machine and the debacle of the Iraq War while hoping he gains enough experience and wisdom and an opinion or two he's willing to actually stand behind and not waver on quickly once in office?
Or McCain a man who has a dangerous temper, who has been in the system nearly as long as the system itself, who is a man that not even his own party likes most of the time, yet is undoubtedly a true Patriot?

It's not an easy choice, but to claim that the Palin choice is "unfair" is nonsense...all is fair in love, war and politics. Now it's up to the American voters to decide who is the best of their choices....good luck with that!


[edit on 15/9/2008 by xtradimensions]

Regardless of how unqualified Sarah Palin might be for the Office of the Vice President, she is more qualified for the Office of the Presidency than Obama is. She is also more qualified for president that Biden, who can't keep his foot out of his mouth.

What is most impressive about Palin is her political philosophy and the fact that she is not a Washington inside, something that Obama claims for himself, but is trumped by Palin and as for Biden, well, he's in the belly of the beast.

People say that McCain is in bed with lobbyists, but Biden's son is a lobbyist and besides, lobbyist are an important part of the legislative process that each and every American can participate in.

There are many lobbyist who very effectively advocate for the little guy, especially when little guys join together in grassroots campaigns, such as the NRA and many dozens of others.

[edit on 2008/9/16 by GradyPhilpott]

See this is where rightwingers will go on about their candidates qualifications and little smears about the democrats yet they lack any real evidence or reasons as to why...

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Regardless of how unqualified Sarah Palin might be for the Office of the Vice President, she is more qualified for the Office of the Presidency than Obama is.

And how is that again? she was mayor of a small town barely 6000 during her time as mayor and this is whats counted as executive?? are serious?? So by you and your fellow rightwingers account, 10,000s of americans who have been small town mayors in the past have "executive experience" for POTUS?! Im sorry my friend, thats not executive experience, heck thats not evens experience for POTUS. I know of teenagers who have been mayors of small towns (well actually 2) and this must automatically be "executive experience by republicans... Do you see how illogical things become when you start moving the goal posts to suit your arguement? Lets see what Rove has to say about experience...

www.youtube.com...

so before Palin was chosen, Tim Kaine, former mayor of Richmond and governor of Virginia with over 200,000 people (in a densly populated state might I add) is not considered experience for VP? Oh no now it is hey! Since Palin is in now...

Being mayor of town barely the size of some educational centers, in the middle of nowhere is not experience at all, especially when each citizen is getting around $1000 worth of earmarks.

She is also more qualified for president that Biden

have you actually seen Bidens credentials? Or are you just making that statement out of thin air? Please, tell us how on earth Palin is more experienced than biden better yet, if you cant do that, tell us how McCain is more experience....

What is most impressive about Palin is her political philosophy

An extreme rightwinger who believes in taking away the choice of women all because her values are different? Somebody no different to Bush in her belief structure? Somebody who believes that God told Bush to invade Iraq? Yes im not surprised that this would "impress" conservatives alike, So what did 8years of policies that have "impressed" conservatives do for the country?

and the fact that she is not a Washington inside

Yet she didnt take to long to use her power for personal reasons did she?
www.youtube.com...

Somebody who full supported the lies of this administration and your here telling us shes no "washington insider"... and to make it even worst shes not the top of the ticket, shes not the one whos been in office getting dirty with the republicans for more than 20years.

People say that McCain is in bed with lobbyists, but Biden's son is a lobbyist and besides, lobbyist are an important part of the legislative process that each and every American can participate in.

is this all you have here? Bidens "son", what is this? What about McCains 5 lobbyists who are actually running his campaign?! Including Charlie Black, a lobbyist who got paid more than $50million over the past 10years for lobbying on behalf of such companies as Occidental petroleum, an oil exploration company. No wonder the mans so eager to "drill drill drill". I could go on by seriously, who wants to list the over 50 lobbyists McCain has had during his campaign....

Please come back with some sources and evidence.... no wait, come back with better arguements than this.

[edit on 16-9-2008 by southern_Guardian]

reply to post by southern_Guardian


All that talk and no mention of Obama's extensive experience as an executive at any level? Obama is running against McCain, not Palin, he needs to figure that out fast or he is doomed.

There is a reason more Presidents have been former Governers than Senators, they actually have run a government, rather than been part of said government.

This election will be a break from the norm in that a Senator will be elected President.

Originally posted by pavil
reply to post by southern_Guardian

 

All that talk and no mention of Obama's extensive experience as an executive at any level? Obama is running against McCain, not Palin, he needs to figure that out fast or he is doomed.

And then you switch the arguement when it doesnt suit you If you fellas dont want us to compare Palins credentials, dont make an arguement out of it. Its that simple, dont bring it up.

Nobody was comparing Palin to Obama until rightwingers decided to make it necessary, the rightwingers were making "experience" as their core arguement until they decided to choose the least experienced VP in history, only two mccain heartbeats away from the whitehouse if ever there need be such a scenario. Why are you telling us that we need to focus to the top of ticket when you fellas keep on bring the comparison up? If you want people to lay off Palin, stop parading her around, shes got more dirt under her than those who have been in Washington for years.

What execuitive decisions has Palin made huh? why is it that Alaska seems to have more than double the nation average worth in earmarks? Why does the town of wasilla have more than triple the earmarks per person as the national average?

Whats her executive decisions in life pavil? How is this not hypocritical of the months of experience talk huh??

There is a reason more Presidents have been former Governers than Senators, they actually have run a government, rather than been part of said government.

This election will be a break from the norm in that a Senator will be elected President.

And tell me what "executive" decisions has Palin made during her governorship?

Bush was the Texas governor prior to his presidency, what good judgement did that do?

I see your some of your point there but just because somebody was a governor or is a governor at the moment, it doesnt automatically make them suited for the presidency. It takes judgement, policies/standing and decision making to make somebody suitable for the presidency and thus far, looking at Palins record and the the increasing truths coming out about her past history let alone her current status, its making her look less credible.

[edit on 17-9-2008 by southern_Guardian]

reply to post by southern_Guardian


Sorry SG, it seems your candidate is doing their darnedest to smash the other sides VP choice into the ground. You don't see the Republicans doing that to Biden, I wonder why that is? It's pretty obvious that the Palin choice has derailed Obama's campaign at least initially. He has been off message since it happened.

I would suggest you research Palin's decisions in Alaska, it's pretty obvious you haven't looked very hard. Yeah it's only 670,000 people, I know.

The most major decision Obama has had to make as a Presidential candidate, he blew big time. Clinton was the obvious VP choice, yet he let his ego get in the way. Great executive decision there buddy.

Let's see how the election will play out. The debates are coming up, I can't wait to see them.

Originally posted by pavil
reply to post by southern_Guardian

 

Sorry SG, it seems your candidate is doing their darnedest to smash the other sides VP choice into the ground. You don't see the Republicans doing that to Biden

Oh no you don’t, because the Republicans dont have anything on the man besides 1988 and his son. As for their role in these smear tactics, dont play dumb with me, we all know here that the republicans have been by far the worst in this campaign. We see the GOPs low grade in political campaigning reflected with the rightwing members here and sheer number of garbage posted. We see the GOPs lies reflected through fox news, we see their lies reflected through McCain’s recent ads, and we see hypocrisy reflected through Palin and the experience argument.

If you want to start comparing smears between the parties and the members here I’m very happy to do so.

As for this "don’t target the VP" BS, well to be frank it is only the right-wingers I see her make comparisons between Palin and Obama. If you want Palin to be left alone, don’t parade her around.

It's pretty obvious that the Palin choice has derailed Obama's campaign at least initially. He has been off message since it happened.

If there’s anybody off message, it’s this republican movement away from true republican principals. We see it reflected through their choice of Bush and McCain, we see it reflected on the fact they turned their backs on the only true republican left, Ron Paul. Don’t talk to me about who's off message here, its clear the republicans have strayed away from their own values.

As for Obama, I beg to differ, he seems to be the only one discussing the issues, what’s McCain doing? Oh well his too busy parading Palin around and calling everybody a sexist for criticizing her. The exact same things rightwingers were doing to Clinton Hypocrisy I tell ya. But hey, its silly season for the GOP.

I would suggest you research Palin's decisions in Alaska; it's pretty obvious you haven't looked very hard.

what a cop out for somebody who doesn’t know any decisions the women made. You argue she has executive experience and that she prepared for POTUS, yet you want me to go do the research because you don’t know? Do you see how this falls with my argument I made prior? YOU DONT KNOW.

I suggest you go and find out what decisions she’s made how this is "executive" and above Obama before you go parading the women around.

Yeah it's only 670,000 people, I know.

Yes, a population one quarter the size of Philadelphia spread over an area of 656,424 sq mi. That’s 1 person per sq mile buddy. And she’s been governor of what? 2years or so? Yet she’s already managed to make her state the largest in earmarks per person by far in comparison to any other state.

ctchnedge01.ap.org...

I mean are you serious? California isn’t evens near that size in earmarks.

The straight talk express huh? No I don’t think so.

The most major decision Obama has had to make as a Presidential candidate, he blew big time. Clinton was the obvious VP choice

What Clinton I think it was by far the smartest decision Obama made, with all that dirt and old politics dragging behind Obama, sorry that would have put him off message.

Let's see how the election will play out. The debates are coming up; I can't wait to see them.

See now this is confusing, doesn’t this contradict what you said before that. It almost sound like your were so sure he blew it now your saying you’ll wait to see how the election pans out? Isn’t that well hypocritical?

Yes, we'll see how the election pans out

[edit on 17-9-2008 by southern_Guardian]

reply to post by southern_Guardian


Glad you are so passionate about your side, I don't intend to get into a debate in this thread about specifics on policies as there are tons of threads created just for that. Hopefully I will see you in one.

As for the Debates, unlike the Democrats who were already planning their cabinet and inauguration, I know there is an election still to be won. We will keep plugging away till November. I think McCain and Palin will do very well in their debates and sway even more undecideds to their side.




[edit on 17-9-2008 by pavil]

Originally posted by SevenThunders
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

That's actually what makes liberals so pathetic. They see no value in character.

I think most of them do, though! That's why the current clique running the show in the White House makes them sick in the stomach. What characters! Liars, pergurors and a bunch of arrogant scum.

reply to post by TheInformer


Since when does having a passport mean you are more informed on foreign policy? There is a lot to be learned from books, teachers, mentors and many other sources. If she is a smart woman, and I think she is, she is being tutored now by legions of advisors.

Would Palin have been my first choice probably not but considering my options at the moment, I'll take her.