A SIde By Side Comparison Of The Issues [Immigration]

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posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 01:47 PM
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I will start with what I feel to be the most important issue to me, as woman I feel that national security is the most important issue at this time. Other may say it is the economy but I am doing fine so I don't see it that way.
I have copied and pasted both candidates stand on the issues and I will use my own judgement and judge a winner on each category. You may judge also as we may not agree on these.

The issue:

BARAK ON IMMIGRATION
Create Secure Borders
Obama wants to preserve the integrity of our borders. He supports additional personnel, infrastructure and technology on the border and at our ports of entry.

Improve Our Immigration System
Obama believes we must fix the dysfunctional immigration bureaucracy and increase the number of legal immigrants to keep families together and meet the demand for jobs that employers cannot fill.

Remove Incentives to Enter Illegally
Obama will remove incentives to enter the country illegally by cracking down on employers who hire undocumented immigrants.

Bring People Out of the Shadows
Obama supports a system that allows undocumented immigrants who are in good standing to pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for the opportunity to become citizens.

Work with Mexico
Obama believes we need to do more to promote economic development in Mexico to decrease illegal immigration

I give Obama a 6 out of 10 due to the fact that he will leave illegals here while they learn english and wait in line to become naturalized. I feel they should be deported no questions asked, illegal is illegal. Once they are safely back in Mexico they can get in the back of the line.
We also don't need to be helping Mexico "promote economic developement" this sounds like more money given away to them, enough is enough, how many millions have we given to them already?
www.barackobama.com...


McCAIN ON IMMIGRATION
(pretty long winded, I will only paste highlights, you can visit the link for the whole kabootle)

Securing Our Borders First.
John McCain's top immigration priority is to finish securing our borders in an expedited manner. Governors of border states will be required to certify that the border is secure.

Prosecute “Bad-Actor” Employers.
John McCain will implement a secure, accurate, and reliable electronic employment verification system to ensure that individuals are screened for work eligibility in a real-time fashion. John McCain will use this new system in conjunction with other Department of Homeland Security resources to identify and aggressively prosecute employers that continue to hire illegal immigrants.

Meet America’s Labor Needs.
John McCain will implement temporary worker programs that will reflect the labor needs of the United States in both the high-tech and low skilled sectors while protecting the employment opportunities for US workers.

Address the Undocumented.
John McCain will address the fact that we have a large number undocumented individuals living in the United States and working in our economy:

All undocumented individuals will be required to enroll in a program to resolve their status.
This program will use background checks to identify criminal aliens for prosecution and deportation.
Assure that the remaining undocumented immigrants learn English, pay back taxes and fines, and pass a citizenship course as part of a path to legal status.
Guarantee that no person here illegally receives a green card before those that have been legally waiting outside the country.
Do a proper accounting of all social security numbers used and attained illegally, rectifying the accounts and alerting those whose identity had been compromised.

You can see more of McCain's lame brained ideas on immigration here:
www.johnmccain.com...

I give McCain also a 7 out of 10 for the same reason as Obama got a 6.
Except McCain didn't mention working with Mexico to promote their economic stance. (no more money sent down there)

WE MUST KICK THE ILLEGALS FIRST AND THEN FIGURE OUT THEIR STATUS AND ELIGIBILITY. ONCE THEY ARE SAFELY OUTSIDE THE U.SAND NO MORE MONEY GOING SOUTH, WE NEED IT HERE!

On this installment McCain wins by a hair....
1 to 0

Next installment, the economy.

[edit on 11-9-2008 by Fathom]


Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 9/11/2008 by Gools]




posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 02:04 PM
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Well done Fathom.

Both Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain seem to have almost identical immigration policies with the exception of the economic help for Mexico.

I am NOT in favor of funneling any tax payer money to help Mexico's economy.

Obama - 5
McCain - 7



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by dizziedame
 

yeay! we agree, a star for you!



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 02:21 PM
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I think they are both reasonable approaches to a delicate issue. Nothing groundbreaking by any means.

The only thing that will change the way things are at the moment is cracking down on the employers of illegal immigrants and doing it now.

In the end I think it's great people want to come to America to earn more money, as long as they do it legally and we make that a process thats simple and makes sense.

Both candidates seem to be headed in the right direction but I lean more towards Obama's plan because if we can provide money to other nations in the form of relief for disasters and to invade them in the name of freedom, we can surely do something positive and help them progress a little.

Probably not the popular opinion, but the problem will never end if we don't have viable ways of making changes that last more then a year.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 02:50 PM
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I wish both candidates would offer more than bullet points. Obama's site has text bytes and a link to a .pdf with more detail. The section about creating secure borders is identical to what's on the page the OP linked to.
Plus 1 to Obama for offering extra information.

McCain's site has no .pdf, but has a lot more detail. Plus 1 to McCain for saying everything he has to say on one page.

John McCain seems to have a much better plan for securing our borders. I don't know how much the extra bureaucracy will cost, or whether the Federal or State governments will be expected to pay for it.

Both parties want some kind of verification system. Both say nothing about how new verification may further encumber U.S. citizens. (Last time I renewed my driver's license, I had to produce my birth certificate, my social security card, a bill or bank statement showing my address and proof of insurance)

I'm voting for Barack Obama, but on the immigration issue, John McCain wins by two points.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 02:55 PM
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The idea that a secure border can be devised is insane, as is the need to subsidize a country that is number four in percentage of billionaires in its population. The one thing that must be done in order to stop the flow of undocumented workers into the country, is to arrest and prosecute the criminal element that takes advantage of their situation and exploits them for profit. The real problem is right here in the U.S.A. and it is called greed.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 02:58 PM
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While both candidates offer something that sound good on a campaign speech and on paper, the issue of immigration is not new and all promises before them has been broken, so who is to tell that either of them will keep their promises this time.

Mexico economical problem is bound to get worst along with the America economy due to many factors right now.

Mexico is our number one supplier of oil so we know that we can not make Mexico to unhappy with our policies.

So while I see that this two Presidential candidates has done a good job to address the issue and the promises of action I am still skeptical if any of them will deliver at the end.

Thanks Fanthon for such a detail and comprehensive account and comparison of both Presidential candidates on the issue of immigration



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 03:19 PM
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Great thread! Thanks for the rundown.

Illegal Immigration isn't too big of an issue with me, but my opinions on it lean far to the right. I understand the the economy in Mexico is not good and many people come here to make some money. And it's illegal to cross the border illegally (Duh). There are poor families here and if they steal something, we don't say, "Well, it's ok... They're poor." So, why do we do that with people from another country?In other words, those who have entered illegally have all broken the law and I don't think they should just get a slap on the hand and told not to do it again.

I like the idea of using technology on the border instead of fences. I can see the mountains of Mexico from where I live and the fences don't work.
I agree with him that our immigration system needs reform.

I agree with McCain on screening people for work eligibility. I think the people themselves should be responsible for the laws they broke, not the companies who hire them. So, I disagree with them both on that. But if McCain's plan made them responsible for being "work-eligible", that would be great.

I like Obama's "bring them out of the shadows" plan. This hiding and sneaking has got to stop.

The 2 plans are pretty even, really, so I'm not sure I can pick one I prefer. If either one of them gets enacted, we'll be VERY fortunate.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by Ellipsis
I lean more towards Obama's plan because if we can provide money to other nations in the form of relief for disasters and to invade them in the name of freedom, we can surely do something positive and help them progress a little.

We have given millions to Mexico already and to other countries it is time to leave the money here in the U.S.

How about we force the American companies doing business n Mexico ie: Walmart, Home Depot, Best Western, KFC, McDonalds...etc..
to pay a minimum wage same as here in he US?
Why would illegals want to come over here if they make the same right there at home?

did you know that a big mac meal costs you the same here that it does in Mexico? and yet they are paying their employees less than $6 a day!! imagine the winfall profits they are making...
I say make Mexico raise their minimum wage.
Their citizens make more thereore they will spend more and htereby raise their economy.

FATHOM FOR PRESIDENT!!!



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by hypervigilant The idea that a secure border can be devised is insane


Well, the Soviets in the heyday of the Cold War would probably find such statement amusing
It's a lot easier than a lot of people tend to believe.

Now, to McCain's position. Fact is, at any given time there is a long wait for legal immigrants to get some kind of status in the US. And such has been the case for great many years. If you send the illegals to the end of the line, they would likely never advance in that process in the firstplace. So either you'll have to give them an advantage (yukes) or you are lying through your teeth (ouch). Sorry I can't side with McCain.

The fact that McCain was such a proponent of even theoretically rewarding those who break our laws really bothers me in any case.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 03:45 PM
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Mexico financial crisis is about to get worse, see the same way that the free trade agreement made possible for the US companies to seek cheaper labor in Mexico is making now possible for he same companies to ditch Mexico for China, as Mexico has to abide by the international laws of trade, nobody tells China how to abide by anything.

So now we may be faced with more wave after wave of immigrants that US companies has laid off because outsourcing.



[edit on 11-9-2008 by marg6043]



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by Fathom
How about we force the American companies doing business n Mexico ie: Walmart, Home Depot, Best Western, KFC, McDonalds...etc..
to pay a minimum wage same as here in he US?


I urge you to talk to conservative folks about twisting hands of American businesses. If they don't call you a commie within the first 30 sec of conversation, I'll be mightily surprised.


I say make Mexico raise their minimum wage.


It's so naive it's not even funny.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem

I say make Mexico raise their minimum wage.


It's so naive it's not even funny.

would you please explain why this is so naive? enlighten me.





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