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After I researched about the Hill Abduction

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posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 03:41 AM
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Be gentle, I'm quite new and don't lurk as often as I should.

In the back of my mind I've had this theory for a while. The detail hadn't really been fleshed out because it's just my own ramblings in my own head. I hadn't read anything to back it up or anything similar... that was until I read about the Hill Abduction about a month ago and something slotted into place.

You'd have to be pretty stupid to think we're the only rock with life on and there's too much compelling evidence that suggests we're not alone, even if you debunk 99.9% of it as explainable, attention seeking or hoax. We have been visited, we're no doubt being observed.

I guess most people think there's some intelligent life out there that comes and goes, takes a cow or two and for some inexplicable reason, doesn't make themselves known to us.

My theory is that we're well behind a vast number of highly evolved civilizations. Out there somewhere is no doubt a massive structure of social and political networks of civilizations all interacting, governing, trading, educating and maybe even fighting with each other.

If indeed there is a political system then there will be law and protocol which prevents anyone from interfering with life with retarded development (like us) until such a time as we can handle it, without risk of mass hysteria and self destruction!

Betty's "star map" story just seemed to back this up for me. True or not, it's what seems to feel right for me and it's what I'll go on believing.

Am I alone in this or is this a common and accepted theory of life on other planets? That there is a whole other tier of life, not just a random planet or two?




posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 09:00 AM
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You'd have to be pretty stupid to think we're the only rock with life on and there's too much compelling evidence that suggests we're not alone, even if you debunk 99.9% of it as explainable, attention seeking or hoax. We have been visited, we're no doubt being observed

I'm not saying we're the only rock with life on it, I just doubt said life anywhere else is humanoid, eons ahead of us technologically and mystically minded, as so many abductees would claim. A simple germ on a far away rock will do me.

My theories differ. I believe they could be inter-dimensional entities (though as with the intergalactic theory, proof is lacking), or merely projections of some internal part of our psyche.

I always found it fascinating that it was the Hill's, an interracialcouple who were the first to speak of being abducted by visiting beings from another world. In a place as cruel toward such unions as 1961, I've always wondered did they ' project' some internal conflict they found present in their day to day life? In the early, less enlightened 60's let's remember, the world would have treated them like ' people from another world'. Just another theory...


Out there somewhere is no doubt a massive structure of social and political networks of civilizations all interacting, governing, trading, educating and maybe even fighting with each other

Why are they so afraid of letting us in the club? I don't understand? Why must we be the pariahs?

Interesting theory though. Like all ideas relating to this phenomena, I appreciate hearing it.

I'm a newbie too!


[edit on 11-9-2008 by SamuelCalifornia]



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 09:02 AM
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Betty's "star map" is the most solid proof we have yet about Alien Abductions. Either she has pretty good eyesight and could see a part of the universe scientists couldn't.... you have to believe she was telling the truth.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 09:18 AM
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Sagan (director of Cornell University's laboratory for Planetary Studies) pretty much summed up the 'star map' I think. The noted astronomer reported that a plot of fifteen star positions identified by Marge Fish showed "little similarity" to those marked on Betty's drawing. He also argued that the map was so vague and ambiguous that any star system or constellation could be matched to it with little difficulty, which lets face it...

I loved Betty Hill though. A great woman...if not a little overboard on the eccentric.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by SamuelCalifornia
Sagan (director of Cornell University's laboratory for Planetary Studies) pretty much summed up the 'star map' I think. The noted astronomer reported that a plot of fifteen star positions identified by Marge Fish showed "little similarity" to those marked on Betty's drawing. He also argued that the map was so vague and ambiguous that any star system or constellation could be matched to it with little difficulty, which lets face it...

I loved Betty Hill though. A great woman...if not a little overboard on the eccentric.



I know those scientists that are in love with Sagan and think his poo don't stink will no doubt jump down my throat..... but Carl Sagan is a fraud. It is well known that he was employed by the government to "debunk" UFO sightings... much the same way that Professor Hynek was employed to do just that. Difference is Professor Hynek went from a debunker to a believer..... Sagan's ego would never let him admit he was wrong.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 09:41 AM
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I know those scientists that are in love with Sagan and think his poo don't stink will no doubt jump down my throat..... but Carl Sagan is a fraud. It is well known that he was employed by the government to "debunk" UFO sightings... much the same way that Professor Hynek was employed to do just that. Difference is Professor Hynek went from a debunker to a believer..... Sagan's ego would never let him admit he was wrong.

Okay. First and foremost, you mean the late Carl Sagan of Harvard, and ironically SETI

Oersted Medal (1990)
NASA Distinguished Public Service Medal (twice)
Pulitzer Prize for General Non-Fiction (1978)
National Academy of Sciences Public Welfare Medal (1994)?

It may be well known to UFO buffs that he was ' employed' to debunk, but where is the evidence? Hynek had a change of heart and is entitled to do so, this shouldn't undermine Sagan's thoughts concerning the star map. Seriously, if the government wanted to debunk the Hills, they could easily get some lowly CIA scout to plant coke in Betty's car and bust her. Bingo. Drug head, hence unreliable. Wouldn't that be easier than having a payroll of respected scientists?



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

The Hill case is quite complex and it's interesting to read about it.

In fact, there's much about it that many people don't know.

The map that Betty saw was reported during 'hypnosis' by Dr Simon, and she also reported on a 'map' during her recounting of dreams in separate instances.

There's a possibility that she 'saw' two maps. She reported on one map in her hypnosis that was pulled out of the wall. In her dreams she recounted another map (or the same?) that was pulled down from above like a 1950s school house map like a window shade.

She was an avid reader of UFO literature and after reporting the abduction (or before?) she read a book by Donald Kehoe (UFOS Are Real), and she wrote a letter to him.

Barney may have seen an Outer Limits show depicting an alien with 'wrap-around eyes', just 12 days before he recounted his story in the hypnosis sessions.

So, to me, this case is all about the details. It's so important to discern what happened when and who said exactly what to whom, and under what circumstances. Was it a recounting of a dream, did Barney's story become influenced by hearing Betty's 'dreams'?

There's one piece of solid evidence that makes one wonder. There was a report from Pease AFB nearby that talks about an anomalous sighting which was filed about the same time, and an officer from the base contacted and had an interview with the Hills.

I think there's a reasonable possibility that some or all of this event was staged by the military. They could have modified a helicopter to have an otherworldly configuration and then implanted memories, or even staged the encounter. Maybe they simply were doing some test flights of an unusual craft in the area and after seeing this, Betty confabulated the whole abduction experience. Maybe they stumbled upon the military craft and were given drugs in an attempt to mask their sighting a classified project? Though these are far-fetched, remember that no earthly explanation can be quite as unlikely as an encounter with a non-terrestrial being flying in a UFO.

Granted there seems to be some indication that a traumatic event occurred and both of them seem to have been suffering from some aspects of PSTD. Thus it makes sense that the Military might have had some involvement, though perhaps only minimally. Certainly sighting an unusual craft at night in the White Mountains of NJ could be frightening to anyone driving alone.

As far as the star map, it is highly strange and Marjorie Fish created it only after carefully selecting the stars. But remember, to make a 'fit' like she seems to have done, you have a very large selection of stars that you can rotate and twist and tilt to make fit. You could probably make a similar fit using a random selection of dots and fitting it over a map of cities on a US map. With a star map, not only can you rotate your points around like on a flat map, you can also rotate it in 3-D giving another dimension of freedom. So it's not as probative as we might think.

There were scratches on the tops of Barney's shoes, allegedly. This seems to indicated he as dragged. However, there's no evidence that he was dragged by non-human, non-terrestrial beings.

One of the most often cited clues was the use of a large needle that Betty says was used on her. Though use of a needle to do a biopsy was not a new thing, it would have been unusual, but not impossible for her to get this idea from a book. However, she was a teacher and well read. She might have seen a depiction of something like this in a library book and it stuck in her subconscious.

So, to me, this case has a lot of 'high strangeness', it does not rise to the level of being substantial evidence of the ET-hypothesis. There's too many 'facts' which may not have happened as we think and there is some possibility of contamination of their stories, both from dreams and from their readings.

I'd suggest anyone interested in the case do a lot of reading, including what's available on ATS, the wiki article and the new book out by Stan Friedman (which is quite good, imo).

Happy researching!



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


[edit on 11/9/2008 by Badge01]



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 12:16 PM
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With modern software, it should be relatively easy to reconfirm Carl Sagan's assertion. Astrometrics has also improved greatly in the past few decades. In particular, astronomers have gotten much better at knowing where to draw the line on their claimed accuracy. We should repeat the experiment of trying to find a match.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by Badge01
 


The unexplained circles the size of quarters on their car that made magnets turn like crazy is another piece of evidence. There was a powdery type substance and the tear on Betty's dress. Also there was a radar confirmation at Pease AFB.
Barney worked grave yard shifts and also did charity work. He never watched "The Outer Limits". I saw that episode recently, and the alien does look a tiny bit like the one seen by the Hills, but the drawings show quite a different alien.
Betty wrote down her dreams, and when she went under the trance, she reported much different things. Barney and Betty were made to forget the hypnosis they went through as to not taint each other when they were under. Barney's testimony was nearly identical to Betty's and nothing like Betty's dreams.
The evidence is overwhelming that Betty and Barney Hill were abducted by aliens. Even the doctor doing the hypnosis was very skeptic, but he did point out that if this is true, it would be the greatest discovery ever for mankind.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 02:53 PM
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With all due respect, OP, reading an internet website or a book about a case is not research.

It is unfair really to bring this up to you, I'm actually speaking to everyone I have seen talk about the research they have done, just because they have looked over a completely biased website or similar.

Research involves a hell of a lot of work!

Also, we are not of "retarded development"! We have been developing amazingly, especially over the last 200 years (even more so over the last 60 years).

[edit on 11-9-2008 by triplesod]



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 02:58 PM
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Thanks for the reminder.
After reading the Hill's incredible story, it was late, but I remember reading at some point that Betty continued to have encounters and I had been meaning to look up those cases to see if maybe there might be more interesting details or evidence presented about those visits also.

Many aspects of the Hill case add together to make it all the more compelling.
While Sagan't got a point, it doesn't mean Betty was wrong.

Regardless, they are immortalized and their story will continue to fascinate people who never would have otherwise known about them.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by Maker


My theory is that we're well behind a vast number of highly evolved civilizations. Out there somewhere is no doubt a massive structure of social and political networks of civilizations all interacting, governing, trading, educating and maybe even fighting with each other.

If indeed there is a political system then there will be law and protocol which prevents anyone from interfering with life with retarded development (like us) until such a time as we can handle it, without risk of mass hysteria and self destruction!



if your looking for more information pertaining to social order in space, start from the begining by reading the terra papers HERE



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 03:06 PM
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If this case Gained a worldwide attention, then it was for some reason. While i approach it with a skeptical view, there are some details that not only amaze me, but also are extremely difficult to explain. Remember that when someone earns NOTHING by a case then you should be on to something and ask to yourself "WHY". What did earn this couple, may i ask? B&B Hill saw their life destroyed after their experience. The story came out after regressive hypnosis, they had nothing to do with the subject matter before: this story deserves attention, one can don't believe it, but there are facets extremely difficult to explain.

[edit on 11/9/2008 by internos]



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by internos
 


They may have lost a lot, but many people gained a lot with them, specially after that hypnosis sessions.

Although I think they were sincere, I also think that they were used to a great extent, and their story may have been changed from the simpler original, by those people.

A thing that I always thought if was a coincidence or not was their names, they had the same names as the Rubbles from the Flintstones, who were created a year before.

Betty

Barney


PS: has anyone noticed how few photos from Betty and Barney Hill are on the Internet? They are always the same photos, maybe just three of four.

PPS: Welcome to ATS, SamuelCalifornia.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 05:17 PM
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Thats quite funny, when I first started reading this thread and read 'Betty Hill' I instantly thought of Betty Rubble aswell!



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to post by Badge01
 


The unexplained circles the size of quarters on their car that made magnets turn like crazy is another piece of evidence. There was a powdery type substance and the tear on Betty's dress. Also there was a radar confirmation at Pease AFB.

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Good points. A couple thoughts, but first, I recognize this case has a lot of things that are not easy to explain. (but, maybe, not impossible).

As far as I can tell from reading a fair amount about the case, Betty is the one who allegedly tested the spot on the car that supposedly reacted to a compass. But if you check into it, she did that because a friend told her that using a compass could help detect the presence of residual radiation. She -didn't- do it to test out the magnetic properties. Of course, as we know, compasses don't detect radiation traces.
So we don't really know what she did, what she saw or if there's another explanation for the spots or the compass reaction. Maybe there was a stereo speaker mounted in the car?


Barney worked grave yard shifts and also did charity work. He never watched "The Outer Limits". I saw that episode recently, and the alien does look a tiny bit like the one seen by the Hills, but the drawings show quite a different alien.


Again, it's in the details. We were told Barney worked night shift, but when do those shifts start and when is the program on? Typically he'd be at home when the Outer Limits was on, typically at 8pm. He'd get ready to go to work at, typically, 11pm and work, 12am-8am. So he -could- have seen the show. It's not evidence, it just shows that there are possible explanations for something that, at first, seems impossible.


Betty wrote down her dreams, and when she went under the trance, she reported much different things. Barney and Betty were made to forget the hypnosis they went through as to not taint each other when they were under. Barney's testimony was nearly identical to Betty's and nothing like Betty's dreams.


But, don't forget, Betty did discuss her dreams with Barney. So the potential for contamination of Barney's story is possible, even probable. Like I said, it appears a traumatic event did occur. We're just not sure it is best explained a UFO/ET event better than something else. In addition, the dream and the hypnosis resulted in fairly distinctly different stories.

Could Betty have been fantasy-prone? The additional "sightings" she had after Barney died many feel were attempts by her (possibly unconsciously) to continue on with the case and her minor celebrity. I don't find anything to support that the experience destroyed their lives. Barney was already suffering from anxiety and an ulcer. We don't really have good enough details on their medical history to use it as proof of anything, except he was apparently experiencing stress at work.


The evidence is overwhelming that Betty and Barney Hill were abducted by aliens. Even the doctor doing the hypnosis was very skeptic, but he did point out that if this is true, it would be the greatest discovery ever for mankind.


Well, I'd suggest that you might be succumbing to a common problem, and that is assuming that mere weight of evidence of high strangeness is overwhelming -proof- of aliens and abduction. I don't think you can do a cursory reading of the high spots of this case and then -add- them, and claim that they tip the scale to non-human, non-terrestrial explanations by sheer number and (apparent) strangeness. As I've shown above you may have inadvertently glossed over some of the facts, which is understandable - the case is complex and has taken on a kind of mythology.

It's important to examine each factoid individually, go back to the source as much as possible and to make sure you know the specifics.

If you read carefully, the Dr Simon did say he did not think the Hills were fabricating anything and his final conclusion was that he considered it a shared delusion brought on by stress, and -not- due to an actual alien abduction.

People can tell very convincing stories and as time goes on, they end up convincing and even scaring themselves.

I think they had a real event in part, that the military may have been involved and that they had traumatic reactions. But each piece of the puzzle can be explained, some by more than one explanation. Even though the explanations are far-fetched, they are considerably more probable than one of alien abduction - something for which we currently have no solid proof, even after all this time.

Now, again, I'm not saying you're wrong, that they did not have an encounter with a strange craft. Just that there is no evidence which is impossible to explain bit by bit with a more prosaic explanation and that this case is often reported with a lot of errors of time and place.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




[edit on 11/9/2008 by Badge01]



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 05:49 PM
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correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Betty and Barney said there were Nordic aliens in the ship?

If so does that mean that Nordics also practice abductions? thougt they were pro humans.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by kidflash2008
 


I dont know enough about this case to comment on it, BUT.

On a few unexplained cow mutilations, they have also found a Powdery substance wich was white. I think it had some unusual properties, giving the conclusion that the cow may have been part of an experiment.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by Maker
 

I felt compelled to respond to this for a few reasons.
Betty Hill reproduced the starmap that supposedly showed "trade routes and paths of exploration between certain stars somewhere in the universe", under hypnosis, after it was suggested that she do so. This took place 3 years after the incident and should definitly not be considered evidence.
Marjorie Fisk took 6 years of 'investigation' to find a group of stars that may correspond to Betty Hills' map. One of the reasons for this is that 3 of the stars on Betty Hills map were not even catalogued until 1969. That means that Betty Hill either got really lucky(If it was a hoax) or the aliens had a chart with stars on it that had not been discovered by humanity in 1961, when the abduction took place. This is an incredibly significant piece of information as the odds of Betty Hill accidentally guessing the positions of 3 previously unknown stars is almost nil. This fact lends credibility to her claims. Gliese catalog star numbers 86.1,95 and 97, were not known to even exist in 1961.
The origin of the aliens that abducted the Hills is said to be Zeta 1 Reticuli, which is approximatley 31 light years or 176,340,000,000,000 miles away. At the level of our current technology it would take about 80,000 years for humans to travel there. But the aliens can do it in a matter of days or weeks according to the Hills. The point is that there was no human on the entire planet that could have had this information concerning three of the stars on her starmap. Only a being that had traveled there could possibly have known about the stars. This case really should still be a pretty big deal.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 06:11 PM
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Barney spoke of Nazis could it be real Nazis that were cooperating with Grays in the WWII or maybe he confused them with Nordics?

That's something confusing because he speaks of Nazis in the 60's?

oh and btw there's a great movie about the case from 1975 with James Earl Jones called the UFO Incident aka Interrupted Journey

www.imdb.com...

[edit on 11-9-2008 by Picollo30]



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