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why do all of you hate america... the thread

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posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by masterp
Anybody care to explain why USA recognized "Macedonia"?

There is no academic or scholar in the world that will admit that Macedonians were not ancient Greeks. Yet USA, under Bush, recognized a bunch of Bulgarians as "Macedonia".

Would you, Americans, like it if my country was named USA? honest answers, please.


[edit on 14-9-2008 by masterp]


On behalf of all Americans, I would like to apoligize to the rest of the world for George W. Bush, the retarded cowboy! But if you think you have it rough because of this idiot, you should live here!




posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 12:05 AM
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PART 1 (I wrote on and didn't realize the 4000 limit!)

The topic of this thread really hit a cord with me. Thanks OP.

Before I start I just want to say I don’t hate ‘America’. I like it, at least the ideologies it was initially founded on and designed to represent. I have a lot of friends in the USA and I’m looking forward to visiting them again soon. Unfortunately that is where my like for America stops.

I’m from a small, liberal western country and have just returned home after 2 years living, working and studying in the US (mostly in Colorado, but also L.A and Michigan) and a further 5 years doing the same in Canada. I won’t say where I’m from because I can’t be assed dealing with the negative replies that might follow. It shouldn’t be too hard to guess. I wouldn’t say my country is the best in the world, but its what I use to make comparisons to the USA.

Of course I’m speaking in generalizations with everything I say about the USA, but those generalizations still come from my interactions with the American people in both a personal and clinical sense.

What is ‘America’ anyway?

The America I refer to is comprised of my experiences with the people, the systems and politics, the geography, the infrastructure and sadly with the media. I include media because no matter how hard we try to be critical judicious thinkers we’re still largely influenced by the media were exposed to on a daily basis (often inadvertently). Its basic social psychology.

I’ve visited countries that have been bombed into inescapable and unrelenting poverty by Americans posing as liberators, working on behalf of ‘democracy’. I’ve been through Asia (extensively), Western Europe, the Pacific and as stated, North America, so I, like many of you, have a lot to compare ‘America’ to. I don’t consider myself an expert by any means but I do think I have enough understanding to give my 2.4 cents.

The things I disliked about the USA was the open and apparent hypocrisy and corruption, the arrogance and ignorance (especially global geography and America’s global importance) of young people (under 40), the lack of awareness and commonsense re; the media and information being taught in schools and lastly I dislike the relentless religious pounding by the neocon rightwing (I must have been approached for conversion half a dozen times…maybe it was the accent
).

I’ll start with what the OP said, ‘does America not have the highest quality of life in the world?’ My answer is NO. We could look at a number of factors to grade the quality of life, including: public resources and infrastructure, standard of living/ distribution of wealth, how civilized the country is, quality of health and mental well being of the people, etc.

Health and mental well being: America scores exceptionally high when we look at the available resources and capital it has as a country, but studies show that when Citizenship to the United States is disregarded, Americans are largely unhappy with their personal lives and generally have a low individual self value. High levels of suicide, mental illness and depression are consequences of this negativity. Similarly, when we take into account the levels of obesity and the millions who don’t have health care, Americans are not in particularly good health compared to many other westernized countries....



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 12:06 AM
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PART 2 cont.

...I believe what facilitates the psychological apathy comes down to the individualization Americans pride themselves on. Other countries where people report to be happier, usually place a lot more emphasis on social support and social interaction, such that people rarely eat by themselves, instead choosing to eat with family and friends. It sounds frivolous but by doing everything fast and having an eat-on-the-run mentality children are left to come home to an empty house which essentially leaves families and individuals alike disjointed from the larger social networks that all societies were founded on. Family importance has been replaced by monetary importance. Sadly Americans I met were rarely aware this was even a problem.

Here we have private AND free public health care, arguably one of the best health care systems on the planet. We’re somewhat Marxist, such that the richer are taxed more and user generally pays. However, where my tax dollar is going is made widely transparent. I get taxed 39% and have no qualms about this as the return I get is very decent.

The standard of living for many people in America is very high, but that’s not necessarily how it is for the majority of all people. Millions live in poverty and have nothing to look forward to as they get older. No way out and nothing to pass onto their children. Its supposedly the belief that all men are equal, but in the reality of capitalism and the free market economy this is rarely if ever the case.

The gap between the rich and the poor: My country earns ¾ of what Americans do yet we have very little poverty (I live in a city of 600,000 people and there’s 4 homeless people that everyone knows-almost local celebrities). People are generally very happy here (although we do have one of the highest suicide rates in the world-though that’s due to another reason).

Groupism: I found being young, white, male, etc, people were falling over themselves to hire me, while minority workers and female members of the workforce struggle against the tide, even when these individuals attain the same or better qualifications. This brings me to the point that in the USA there appears to be too much emphasis placed on how people appear to fit the desired mold. It doesn’t matter how hard a disabled black obese female works, chances are she won’t be looking forward to the same ladder of promotion I would be…often its just unintentional oppression (in group out group bias).

Agro: One of the first things I noticed about the vibe in America was the general tone of aggression…everywhere, on the road, at the mall, talking with authority (police/security), in sports, in the media.

For a country founded on personal freedom and liberty, I found America to be a VERY restrictive and authoritarian place.

Sensational Sexualization: There’s a lot of sexual tension in America. Its in the media, its in the clothes people wear, its in the way people socially interact (especially in university). Everything is sexual…but nothing is sexual. Where I’m from there’s nudity on TV all the time, but it’s meaningless. In my running magazine there’s a picture of a naked runner, wearing nothing but shoes, saying how nice it is to run free. This ad could never play in the states because it would be deemed sexually offensive, but really there’s nothing ‘sexual’ about it. I run track and after finishing a race in Kentucky I took my shirt off (inside the stadium), a woman came over to me and asked if I cover up, I said no (it was about 30.c), an official then came over and warned me that because this was a religious state many people found ‘nudity’ offensive. WTF? Where I’m from people lay half naked on the beach without fear of reprisal all the time, and its not in the least bit sexual....



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 12:07 AM
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PART 3 (sorry)

Police State: Then there’s the police. Wow. I once watched in disbelief as two police officers, on patrol at LAX, harassed and whistled at a woman. I also saw cops at college parties beat the # out of students who protested a friends’ treatment (which itself was totally unwarranted), I saw fat officers literally sitting in doughnut shops. In my mind this is all part of the corruption, albeit at a lower level, I despise about America. Not a single officer in our police force can be fat, if they were they would be suspended. Our police don’t carry guns (they don’t even carry tasers!), yet we have one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

One moment that was very poignant for me occurred when I visited the USA for the first time as a teenager. I met a man in a wheel chair, outside a wells-fargo in San Francisco. He had only one half arm, and no legs, was wearing an American flag bandana, and had an American flag attached to his chair. He was begging for money. He was the first beggar I had ever seen in my life. I gave him $5 thinking he was the only beggar I would see. Boy was I wrong. Anyway, naively I asked him why he was in the state he was in, missing limbs and in a wheel chair begging. He said because he was accidently bombed in Vietnam. “So why aren’t your family taking care of you?” “I don’t have any family left.” “So why aren’t you getting help in a hospital or care home?” “Because (and this just blew me away) I can’t afford it.” (!!) This guy was bombed in Vietnam by an ally of America, while representing his country and his citizens and now-with his income dry he’s being left to die on the streets of America. WTF.

Application of Aggressive Politics and dishonesty: I believe it’s this aggression and tension, apparent in Americas society which is transferred indirectly into the USA’s national and foreign policies (ie: werkowitz [sp?] doctrine). This can be very hostile and dangerous when interacting with entire countries, especially when firepower of the modern era is involved. How can any country be liberated by an unjust corrupt intimidator? This also represents the selfish, win-at-any-cost mentality that American politics displays to the rest of the world.

Anyway, that’s more like 2.8cents.

I just wanted to add that I don’t think my country is perfect by any means. We have a ton of our own problems, albeit largely distinct and separate from Americas problems. There is more I dislike about America-from retributive justice and cultures of honor to corporations and mass-materialization to the industrial military complex, but that can wait for another time.

The way I see it is this: up until this point in history the story of America is one that, as children of ‘freedom’, we should all respect and be proud of...A country is founded and populated by refugees, slaves and mavericks. Said country comes up with a new/radical political system, opposing and distancing itself from the corrupt monarchs and hierarchical systems of the past. This country, in a blink of the eye becomes the most powerful and the ‘richest’ country the world has ever known. Not a bad story eh? Sadly, like all great empires this one might fall from within if its unable to fix what’s wrong with it.

Thanks.

R.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 04:14 AM
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I don't what the other people have said since I have a short attention span but I love America, the idea of America and the Constitution but it's just the people in power that I don't like. Hate is too strong a word 'cuz I'm sure they were good people at one point but more or less it's their personalities. I'm a Patriot but I don't believe in this complete control... I'm actually a soldier and I already have to deal with state and federal law, not to mention the UCMJ. I love going to 7-11 just for anything at any time or even the 24-7 grocery stores but my love of God comes first over any man-made sense of control.

[edit on 9/15/2008 by MR_UNSMiLey]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 08:57 AM
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I think most peoples concerns for the state of our country can easily be mistaken for hatred. Lets face it poor decision making from our government has left us citizens in a horrible situation. The fuel prices are rising, housing market is a mess, jobs going overseas, war, and a currency that is weakening. How much do we have to endure before we take action. Now people are shouting what a mess we are in and they are labeled haters? I love the country but hate the current state that its in. Theres a standard here in America, one that is very high, if it's not met I will be vocal about regardless if I'm thought of as a "hater"...



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 10:39 AM
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Well I gotta say I dont hate america....I just dont agree with our government...but that can be said about alot of governments



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by scrambledeggs
 


i think most of it is not 'hate' its just anger towards our govt's stupid moves overseas and unwarranted invasions into other countries such as iraq or illegal incursions into pakistan etc.

as far as some Americans believing in the 'greatness' of their country I am not one of them, and I think to answer your question the reason why some people myself included do not buy the myth of American superiority is because they actually have some objective basis for comparison such as in my case living more than half of my life in other countries and seeing that our standard of living is actually lower than a lot of other countries.

In my experience living in Europe was much more comfortable and advanced on a governmental/legal and social interaction/creature comfort level. Furthermore from living in Korea and visiting almost 10 times (fluent in korean or nearly so ) I can also say that that country is far more technologically advanced than we are.

So people often talk bad about America simply because they realise the truth that a lot of our media or population's talk of WE ARE TEH BEST is empty talk not based on any real objective comparison. I feel I have enough real life experience to say that we are not the best.

On top of that, regardless of other countries being more advanced socially or technologically than the US, I still believe NO country is above any other, as I believe everyone should because nationalism leads to nothing but conflict. Think about it and promote equality among everyone. Thanks!

sadly and I hope I'm wrong, I will probably be ignored like in a lot of other threads where I say things the OP doesnt like because I'm not pro-anyone- specific...



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by mattguy404
 


But off the top of my head, America:

* Biggest polluter. Snip: Americas air is cleaner than it was before the industrial revolution. Better check out China and India.

* Breaking the Geneva Conventions. Snip: Examples, please? Also, Al-Queda and Hezbollah.

* Shoddy deals with Saudi Arabia - a brutal regime, yet they have the oil, so its 'okay'. Snip: I somewhat agree, but the world benefits from those "deals," not just America.


* Exports 'democracy' to other nations with bombs without really having it itself. Snip: Exports the possibility of Liberty and Freedom, not democracy. America is not a democracy. (though we're heading that way to our great peril.)

* Massive sponsor of state terrorism Snip: America does not sponsor Al-Queda, Hezbollah, etc.

* Dictates hypocritical policies to other nations Snip: Like who?

* An economy that all other economies have to kiss-arse to Snip: People will always go to where their money is treated best. No-one forces anyone to bring their money here. If other countries would have a more capitalist economy, they'd do much better.

* An over-riding arrogance and ignorance that spills over into evangelical, theocratical right wing Christians Snip: the idea of Right-wing versus Left wing is overblown. Most Americans are smack dab in the middle.... right where The Founders wanted us.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 11:27 AM
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What Barry Hussein (the Marxist) said was partially true. America has one-fifth the population of the world, and we use 23 percent of the energy. What he can't understand or won't admit, is that America feeds the world, clothes the world and cures the world. And, at just 5 percent of the world population, America generates 27 percent of the worlds wealth. Not too shabby.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by Nammu
 


I'm an American but live in Paris.

I've lived in New York, which I loved. I grew up in Philadelphia, which I visit often. And spent years living in Baltimore, where I still have dozens of very good friends.

I've been to every major city on the West Coast. I've been to Chicago, New Orleans, and Boston -- all favorites. I've been to Houston and El Paso, Memphis, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Rapid City, Sioux Falls, a half dozen towns in New Jersey both on the coast and inland, and a half dozen visits to most o the big cities in Florida.

I've spent four different summers on the beach in North Carolina. I've been to Atlanta, Madison, and Detroit. I've seen the Grand Canyon. And the Grand Tetons. I've been to Yellowstone. And Yosemite.

I've met a lot of Americans -- good ol' down home folks who have never travelled -- that it's my privilege to have met. And no matter how long we're gone from the States, there's definitely something about America that I miss. An essence that's hard to sum up, elusive, a thread that runs through it. Or once did. And could again.

But the fact of the matter is, life in many, many places is not just "as good" as it is in America... but far better. Paris is just one extreme example. Believe it or not, my fellow Americans, there are many many places where people don't live to work... where food tastes good and doesn't come in a styrofoam container... where the height of culture stretches well beyond shopping malls... where architecture is beautiful, not expedient... even where the idea of living "free" actually DOES let you say what you want, when you want, without fear of retribution from your government or your brain-washed neighbors, which is sadly not the case in America today.

Look, travel and high education... they're lucky breaks in this life. But one doesn't have to think they're they define the humanity of a man. Nor does one have to fear them as marks of the untouchable elite. Millions upon millions of good and decent people have never traveled. Not just in the U.S. but elsewhere. And among them, there are prejudices that would surely evaporate like water on hot slate, given the chance to see what they were actually missing.

However, the tragedy of Americans holding this view is that, not only do we have much more media access than most "markets" around the world and therefore -- theoretically -- more opportunity to know better, we're in a position that we're the most powerful, influential society. And we're making dangerous decisions based on how important and "great" we are compared to the rest of the world.

I know... KNOW... people who meet the average decent person in the middle of America would get along with them just fine once the fear and language barriers were overcome. Fellow Americans, get over it... people DON'T hate you.

What they do hate, however, is this idea that we're someone singular in history... somehow the height of everything... somehow impervious to the lessons and legacies of some many hapless, self-congratulatory empires that came and went before us.

You want to be loved again?

Don't elect people like George Bush. Or John McCain. Seriously. It's incredible and tragic, in the Greek sense, to watch. Here we are with a chance in November to get out from under the tiny, wealthy minority that has raped our economy through artful artifice for eight years running... who have gotten filthy rich just by figuring out how to "talk dumb" to a vast population of frightened, decent folk whom those same politicians don't respect in any way whatsoever... who will disappear your jobs, close your schools, shrink your access to health care, and fritter away the money you have poured your entire working life into Social Security. And yet, we're on the brink of those same frightened folk re-electing them again, because they like the moose-hunter better than a black man.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by rosio
 


basically hit the nail on the head. its almost everything i tried to say in my post albeit longer. while i am a citizen here I do not feel like one due to my upbringing overseas and majority of life out of the country.

As such I have never felt comfortable here for the reasons you mentioned (undercurrents of strange aggression in almost everyone for no reason, as well as weird sexual tension almost oozing out of young people because they mentally bring it upon themselves by letting the media and peers get to them, not to mention the apathy, rampant drug use which ravages this country and is above anything ive seen in its integration into society even more than in the netherlands where most drugs are legal! its insane..As well as the lack of political responsibility our government has and our public) the list goes on.

So i plan on getting out of here as soon as i straighten up some financial things and health things. In only 2 or 3 years I will have been in the US as much as overseas that is like the bell tolling to get out before i get 'converted' lol. But I dont think its possible.

Just nice to be looking forward to going to a sane more intelligent place. the sad thing is i wish i could change it, and i feel a lot of young people waking up becoming more intelligent more spiritual and kinder but sadly i think it is the minority and TPTB don't take kindly to people thinking for themselves. Sadly most people travelling from this country don't see a true comparison between america and where they go because they are constantly complaining how 'this isnt as good as in america, they dont have X (american thing) here this sucks' so much so they do not see the beauty or in most cases superiority of the situation they are in when overseas. That said i still don't place any country over any other. Just situations.

Was nice to read a post from another 'foreigner' with a true objective view and other realities to compare this country to.

[edit on 15/9/2008 by chris_stibrany]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 11:51 AM
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Some people say that there is no Canadian 'culture'.

I disagree... a common mind-set amongst our population is a deep rooted pride (and identity) that we are 'NOT AMERICAN'.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 12:12 PM
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I'm French and I like american people a lot. I've been to the US several times, to different places, I have even lived there for a year. I like how geniuine they are, curious and optimistic.

However I don't like when people claim that the US is the best country in the world. It just doesn't make any sense. It's not because you're the number one country on every aspects that people are not dying of poverty in the US, every day. The military power is one thing, but it appears that lately the US government lacked the knowledge required to make the best moves regarding the middle-east.

I also think that for various reasons life in Europe is better. We have health care, and more efficient welfare system in general and we try not to let anybody behind. We're not obsessed with terrorism and security and we don't need to live with 5 cops on every corner arresting drunk teenagers. Arts are much more important for us than it is for american people it seems and europeans know how to enjoy life through culture, and street life, not only good family value whith a house and a car to go to the mall.

But there's just no reason to compete for "who's the best". If you think that America is just the most wonderful country in the world, please travel around the world a little bit and you might see things from a different angle and change your mind.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by zappafan1

* An economy that all other economies have to kiss-arse to Snip: People will always go to where their money is treated best. No-one forces anyone to bring their money here. If other countries would have a more capitalist economy, they'd do much better.




There; right there, in your response, is why people dislike America so much.

Just look at the negatives pointed out in this thread: What they see as an "income gap between rich and poor" is actually the fallout from the fact that America has more first generation millionaires than any European state (and most of our millionaires are the immigrant children of Europeans). In other words, you can get richer in America than you can in Europe. It's why Artists live in America, and want to do business here.

Complaints about the way america treats its poor, to cover for the fact that average US income is higher than even the best of European economies. Basically, America's poor have more material comforts than many working class people in Europe, particularly outside of England, Germany, and France.

The resentment of the USA is the natural human resentment all people feel towards someone else who has done well, perhaps even a little better, or who have more: to say, yes, but, they don't deserve it.

Much of the critique I see of America is that we are ignorant and/or smug, is just a nuanced way of saying we aren't looking to Europe as our role model.

Complaints that our economy is "too big" is essentially complaining that we are successful.

Complaints that we "screwed up the middle east" are hilarious, coming from French and British posters, when you think of those states' roles in the Suez crisis, the partitioning of Palestine, or British support for Saudi Arabia, or French Support for Syria . . .

I'll stop with part of an article from the BBC, about 4 years ago, talking about French and US tensions over Iraq:

BBC article: France and Syria, a tangled history.




In a world defined by overwhelming American might, France can take a stand, knowing that in the end it will not be judged by its ability to turn rhetoric into action. It is enough to stand up to America; no-one expects France to be able to stop America.

And France, confronted by its own powerlessness, cannot resist taking solace in the misfortune of its mighty Anglo-Saxon rival.



all the best.

[edit on 15-9-2008 by dr_strangecraft]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 02:25 PM
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I do not hate my country. I love my husband but that does not mean that I agree with everything he does. This is healthy. So it is with my country.

I don't like BS. I can smell it a mile away and I've always been the kind of person who can't help but expose BS when I see it. I live in the truth, flattering and unflattering, alike.

Our country is full of BS. We are killing innocent men, women, & childeren through our preemptive bombing but~that's okay. There are people who are so busy loving their country that they don't ever take stock of the good that this country, and the evil that this country is doing. Hell, we Americans are the first nut jobs to use a nuclear weapon (2 of them/Japan) but somehow we rewrote that story to make ourselves look so good!

I don't like the lies that are being told by the people in power. People who are profitting off of these wars that they are starting. This government has gotten us into war with Iraq, Afghanistan, Russia, Venezuela, and soon, nuclear bombs (once again) to Iran. Do you ever notice that this government paints everyone else in the world to be wrong or evil? Everyone except the US. That's wierd...hell, I'm not even that perfect.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by scrambledeggs
 


Most people do not hate "America" or what it was supposed to be. They hate what the American Government does to them. There is a differnce between the country and the government.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 03:19 PM
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I don't hate America. I hate the Fascist Psychopaths running the country on both sides. We go to war over corporate interests and everything is controlled by the lobbyists and corporate money. We need to have a million man march and fire everyone in the government and start over. FOX and CNN LIE to everyone and its nothing but brainwashing BS. I love our country. I'm tired of the politicians destroying it. When Princeton can hack a voting machine and make it public and nothing is done about it what does that say in your mind. They don't care. OUR VOTE DOESN"T matter. Everything is going on by their design. Wake up. Our country is HATED because of what our POLITICIANS are doing to the rest of the world. WAKE UP.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 04:59 PM
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America is disliked by me first because it does not respect the indigenous "Indians" population it massacred and killed in the early years of the European scum invasion. Second, America has an enormous illiteracy, unbelievably bad education system. There are cities that have more than 20% of the citizens that can not read and write. It has a very high teen pregnancy rate and a very high infant death rate. America has been waging wars for the last 100 years with many many countries. The American people have no guts or individuality as they follow their evil government like sheep to any spot in the world where they can steal all basic materials they need for their wasting life styles. America with only 5% of the world population pollutes 25% of the worlds pollution, the list can go on and on. What good has America brought to the world? I was in 50 countries and all I saw from America was coca cola and gangster movies. No culture, no education, war and uneducated people, what is so good about it? abaldal@gmail.com
Captain Zen



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 05:38 PM
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I don't think it's hatred most people feel for the USA, I think it's frustration.

I once heard/read a quote from someone that sums this up for me (I'm probably paraphrasing) -

"America will always do the right thing......AFTER it's exhausted all other options"

Which, of course, is REALLYfrustrating....



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