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Two Russian bombers land in Venezuela-agencies

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reply posted on 10-9-2008 @ 09:34 PM by Brothers

They are just flexing their muscles that is all. All big countries do that just to show off. Nothing will happen. Chaves and Bolivia are in big trouble right now with the U.S. and someday soon they will be gone one way or another and Russia will have to stay at home for awhile. Like someone in England said. There are just too many people on this planet and most have to get off. Ofcourse if that happens who will repair the palaces and plant the gardens and who is going to sow the seeds to plant foods and harvest them and ship them and cook them and serve them. There will no be that many people to do all of that. Maybe perhaps they were thinking of making robots to do the jobs??? I think not.

reply posted on 10-9-2008 @ 09:39 PM by maloy

I do not see any realistic chance for a Russia-Venezuela alliance. This is just a small cooperative military exercise, meant only to symbolize goodwill. While Russia may want to get back at the U.S. for Georgia, an all-out military stand-off is not on Russia's priority list. Russia has already proved all that it needed to prove to the U.S., and will not focus on restoring good relations with Europe. U.S. may wish to draw Russia into another Cold War of sorts, but Russia is not interested. True - Russia wants some sphere of influence around itself (Eastern Europe and Asia), but it isn't really looking to become a global power just yet. Russia does not have the needed resources (especially military) to sustain a stand-off with the U.S. just yet. Two decades from now - maybe.

Oh and Chavez is such a clown:

"If some day a Russian fleet arrived in the Caribbean, we will raise flags, we would beat drums and play the national anthem of Venezuela and the national anthem of Russia, because it would be the arrival of a friend," Chavez said in July.

Raise flags, beat drums, and play national anthems. What the hell is this? Does he want a military parade through the Carribean? The guy may try hard - but this is just too cheesy.

reply posted on 11-9-2008 @ 12:07 AM by GorehoundLarry

In my opinion, the country of Russia is just doing things to annoy others now.

I also wonder what China is doing at the moment..

reply posted on 11-9-2008 @ 01:21 AM by dragonridr

Russia thinks hes as crazy as we do. He made an offer to them and Russia decided to take him up on it only problem is this was supposed to be naval exercise. Unfortunately the Russians need what few ships they have right now closer to home so this was merely a show for them the Russians take bombers to air shows around the world. The Russians aren't stupid enough to even think of letting them near a nuke they know what there dealing with.

reply posted on 11-9-2008 @ 03:07 AM by damagemouse

this is what i thinK:

what the world needs is the continued global superiority and dominance of the United States military.

stuff sucks. life sucks. we all watch star trek and see this rad society - gonna have to fight a lot of wars to get there.

no one wants to invade russia. georgia's forces acted improperly and russia over reacted. end of story.

they and u.s. knew the Georgians were too weak stand up to Russia - you don't mobilize over 1k tanks and 7k soldiers overnight. Russia took advantage of the opportunity and overreacted and then behaved erratically.

georgia wanting it's own armed forces is a normal thing. i'm sure belgium or other small european countries have an army and don't get invaded. because it's a national pride thing.

russia got brutally and cruelly attacked by the Nazis during WW2 (they lost a HUGE number of people - dwarfing the u.s. casualties and largely helping the Allies win the war) - they are just sketched out on thinking other countries/NATO always wants to invade or attack or is after their...what? what is there to steal? nothing that isn't in every other country. (if you say oil you are wrong and stupid).

what we have lost is the russian's sense of us as genuinely friendly. during reagan/bush gorbachev era things were rad and happy. all people genuinely want peace...but our invasion of iraq really freaked them out - we are a lot closer to Russia then we used to be - remember, the germans told russia they wouldn't attack them either...so they are pretty freaked out right now which i get - but they need to chill.

they also (seems to me at least) to have loathed yeltsin and seen him as a western/us stooge, a horrible, corrupt leader and that the russian people themselves righted the ship of russia during economic chaos (which they think we didn't hep during) rather than their president as he should have.

and putin/medevev is a result of all that...we need to once again get the point across to the russians that we mean them no harm and that we are down. i want a eurorail pass to russia!!

russia should be a part of nato so we can party!!!

reply posted on 11-9-2008 @ 03:36 AM by cognoscente

Sorry Chavez. You're not welcoming any such Russian fleet. The Monroe Doctrine would say otherwise. What a conundrum.

So the U.S.A. either gives up on Monroe, thereby making itself defensively vulnerable to Russia, and committing a portion of its political sphere of influence to suicide.

Or form a naval blockade around Venezuela, possibly incurring the wrath of a resolute dictator, and forcing the U.S.A. into a conflict, the likes of which have not been emulated since the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962.

[edit on 11-9-2008 by cognoscente]

reply posted on 11-9-2008 @ 08:34 AM by Pootie

Originally posted by pepsi78

A hit and run by these two bombers, supposing they are armed and not intercepted in any would be suicidal. We know they are there do you think we are not defended against them? What are they going to do? Get to the Gulf, unload on oil terminals and split?

I don't think you uderstand how today's strategic bombers work.
The era where they have to fly over the target is gone.What you have on board is high tec missle tehnology.They don't even need to aproach the US border.They simply need to take off and launch the payload.

I fully understand that they release and run... But you think the range of the missiles is far greater than what it is. "Take off and launch"? why not just launch from the ground then if it is that easy? why send penetrating bombers? you don't seem to understand that they would be tracked from the second they left a runway and how far they need to actually go. You also don't READ. All I said is that they would need to get TO THE GULF. Than, like I said... maybe they hit an oil terminal or two and that blows their load. It is TWO bombers and not that great of ones at that with a minimal escort. Yipee... Two B1-B "clones".

Why avoid the real questions of force in each respective hemisphere? We have them totally surrounded and can launch from far closer than Venezuela with far more than two lousy B1-Bs...

Some people here are stimulated that the Russians have TWO bombers in Venezuela. Total non-issue. Total suicide if they use them.

[edit on 11-9-2008 by Pootie]

reply posted on 11-9-2008 @ 09:21 AM by Sator

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Considering the long range ALCM strike package of Tu-160s they would have to fly over the Caribbean Sea if they want to have a good probability of hitting anything other than resorts in Florida.

Considering what happened on Sept 9, 2001 I don't think is too difficult to fly any aircraft inside US.

When the Russians need to bomb US, they'll just hire some crazy mid-eastern guy (just out of flying school) with a red bandana on it's head and do miracles in the air.
NORAD will give him at least an hour an a half before sending someone after the plane(s).

OR....

Peace

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reply posted on 11-9-2008 @ 10:17 AM by wellsybelieves

something to do with this maybe......

YouTube Link

[edit on 11-9-2008 by wellsybelieves]

reply posted on 11-9-2008 @ 10:46 AM by Matrix1111

Originally posted by manson_322
good, finally, nukes are arriving in venezuala , these will ensure that the genocidal US empire , will be kept at bay ....

I'm not following this new Russian geopolitical resurgence. Can you explain why you think Russian imperialism would be better than American imperialism? My understanding is that Marxism relies on Hegel's dialectic to justify it's expansionism by force and insurgency and also on the dictatorship of the proletariat (12-year olds with guns and a license to randomly kill anyone with an education). Consequently, as we saw in Pol Pot, the genocide of a class of people is part of the Marxist agenda. On the other hand, the US uses cultural and technological imperialism (trade) to expand its influence. At least that's what appears to be the case. Could you give some contempary examples of US genocide?

reply posted on 11-9-2008 @ 11:07 AM by wellsybelieves

Erm twin "cough" "cough" towers. Oh no thats right it was those pesky terrorists wasn't it

Not genocide exactly but still killing your own people for your own gain.

[edit on 11-9-2008 by wellsybelieves]

reply posted on 11-9-2008 @ 11:53 AM by HatTrick

This bomber thing is such a non-issue. Russia landed TWO bombers in Venezuela. The event is simply being leveraged by the US media as part of their "be afraid" campaign. Y'all can get your shorts in a wad about nothing, but I'm going to enjoy my weekend.

reply posted on 11-9-2008 @ 12:09 PM by WestPoint23

reply to post by Sator

Some research on your part would have saved me this reply, but alas it's an imperfect world. NORAD is very capable of tracking foreign aircraft, especially Russian bombers, it has been their bread and butter for over a half century. September 11 is a non issue in this case, a completely different situation. I guarantee you had the terrorists used two Russian bombers on that day instead of civil aviation they would have been far less successful. In any case, peace to you as well.

[edit on 11-9-2008 by WestPoint23]

reply posted on 11-9-2008 @ 12:24 PM by Matrix1111

Originally posted by wellsybelieves
Erm twin "cough" "cough" towers. Oh no thats right it was those pesky terrorists wasn't it

Not genocide exactly but still killing your own people for your own gain.

[edit on 11-9-2008 by wellsybelieves]

That's the conspiracy I'm hearing being drummed endlessly. But me thinks someone protests too much. And if you repeat it enough times...?

Reminds me of Hitler's endless blaming of the Jews for the problems of Germany. He had all the "proof" to back himself up, too. So it seemed.

I'm not convinced by the 911 truthers. It completely ignores the rhetoric that we've been hearing from the Hasan al Bana, Sayed Qutb, and Mufti Husssein Islamist brigade throughout the Israel-Palestine conflict of the last 90 years. Jihad has been preached by this network for all this time. The world has just been ignorant of this. It's just now hitting the proverbial fan. But some opportunists (Leftists) are spinning this into a propaganda that accuses the US of plotting the attack. I suspect it started with the Jihadist terrorists spreading the rumors first. It's a well-known Islamist tactic that was learned from Hitler and is called Turnspeak:

www.eretzyisroel.org...

It's part of the terror playbook 101.

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reply posted on 11-9-2008 @ 12:29 PM by manson_322

Originally posted by Matrix1111

Originally posted by manson_322
good, finally, nukes are arriving in venezuala , these will ensure that the genocidal US empire , will be kept at bay ....

Could you give some contempary examples of US genocide?

if you want more recent happenings then Iraq, Afghanistan , Vietnam, Latin America

Millions of Victims:
The Bloody "American Century"

Altogether, the terrorist U.S. government and military have directly slaughtered literally millions of civilian people in the Philippines, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, Russia (the civil war, 1918-1920), Japan, France, Germany, Korea, Thailand, Indonesia, Panama, Grenada, Libya, Lebanon, Iraq, Sudan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Bosnia and Yugoslavia.

In addition, the terrorist U.S. military and CIA have trained, armed, funded, provided intelligence and direct military support for fascist puppet-regimes and right-wing death-squads around the world.

America's servant-states have carried out appallingly vicious campaigns of state terrorism. With the direct support of the U.S. government they have committed the torture and genocide of additional millions of helpless, civilian people in Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, Haiti, Mexico, Cuba, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Chile, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, Brazil, China, the Philippines, East Timor, Indonesia, the Congo, Angola, Zaire, Mozambique, Palestine, Israel, Turkey, Greece, Cyprus, Iraq, Pakistan and Iran.
www.intellnet.org...

on the indian genocide:

The Indian Genocide

"The destruction of the Indians of the Americas was, far and away, the most massive act of genocide in the history of the world."

— David E. Stannard
historian

In spite of that fact, the typical, mentally-sleeping American remains only vaguely aware of the horrific holocaust of American Indians. Yet every single locality where Americans make their homes today is consecrated to the cause of cruel, racist inhumanity — with the blood of Indian people. Every single locality where Americans make their homes today is the scene of the murder, rape, torture and impoverishment of the Indian people who lived there first.

But mainstream Americans would choke on their apple pie if they dared to think about that. Too many Americans would rather stick their heads in the sand about our evil history — just as they stick their heads in the sand about what is happening today.

In the centuries after Christopher Columbus the Butcher, more than 100 million native people fell under the sadistic, racist rule of the invading European-Americans.

$$ Land is wealth, and Americans lusted for it. They couldn't let a minor fact like the existence of millions of human beings already living on that land get in their way. So the policy of genocide, thievery, routine lying and racist cruelty was justified with whitewashes like "Manifest Destiny" — America's domestic version of "Deutschland Uber Alles
www.intellnet.org...

by the way, more on the genocide of native indians :
yamin Zakaria estimates 20 to 70 million , David E.Stannard , estimates deaths of native indians due to american policy to be 10-25 million and the White book of capitalism gives a figure of 160 million and intellnet.org gives a estimates the death toll of blacks and native americans to be 90 million ......

The burgenoning United States balanced brute military force with one economic transaction after another, on one hand slaugthering entire tribes, on the other "buying" enourmous tracts of land for exploitation. With control over nearly all native american land, leaving only small plots for "reservations", the native american way of life was destroyed and the clear choice became: be assimilated into "modern" life, or rot in "irrelevance" on the reservation.

371 treaties were made by the US government with Native Americans. The United States govenment violated 370 of those treaties, to date. Over 250 years, 160 million Native Americans have been killed by the US government.
marxists.anu.edu.au...

Estimated civilian deaths: 90,000,000 people

The British arrived in Jamestown in 1607. By 1610 the intentional extermination of the native population was well underway.

America's contribution to "the most massive act of genocide in the history of the world" continued unabated to 1890. In that year the vengeful soldiers of the United States Seventh Cavalry used gattling guns and rifles to slaughter Lakota men, women and children at Wounded Knee, South Dakota.

More recently, with the unwitting sterilization of Indian women at hospitals in South Dakota, the FBI covert murder and terror campaign against the American Indian Movement people and the BIA covert and overt intimidation of Navajo people at Black Mountain — the genocide can be said to have entered a more surreptitious phase.

And how many millions of Africans died as a result of slavery? All of them, actually. If they died in slavery they died of slavery too. Their lives were stolen from them before they were born.

The slave trade was "justified" by demented, inhuman racism, but it was motivated by material greed. It was a business, like everything else in America's bloody, ruthless history.

"The business of America is business" said President Calvin Coolidge in the 1920s. These days Presidents aren't quite so open about that fact.

But a truly evil corporate plutocracy rules this country today just as surely as it did then. And America's modern addiction to plundering the world has its historical roots in the theft of Indian land and the slavery of Africans. America's wealth owes its origins in large measure to generations of African blood, sweat and tears. And to the land stolen from its original inhabitants.

The evil, genocidal origins of America are the best explanation for the evil, genocidal nature of modern-day America. This country started out rotten as hell. It has improved domestically, but it has gotten much worse internationally. And the vast majority of Americans are still in total denial as to the true nature of the country they live in. It doesn't bode well for the future. You can't cure a disease if you won't even diagnose it honestly.

And America is one deeply diseased nation.
www.intellnet.org...

1) The US was established on the blood of 70 million Native Americans. Their lands were stolen. Since the US leadership considers it right of the Jews to occupy Palestine as they lived here over 2000 years ago, then the Native Americans can also argue back only 500 years and have their lands returned to them. So a valid ground to repatriate the European colonizers, if they refuse they can be herded into camps, subjected to a trail of tears. Alternatively they can be nuked out of existence for resisting, as well as retribution for the brutal killing of their ancestors.

2) Consider the crimes against the Africans, their enslavement, oppression and lynching for centuries, which led to millions perishing. An irony of the declaration of independence by the Founding Fathers of the US, who stated that all men were created equal, whilst Afro-Americans were subjected to such brutality which continued for many decades. They have the right seek retribution (including nuclear strike) against the descendents of the criminals who have not paid them any compensation.

3) During the Spanish-American war at the turn of century, Philippines was colonized, and at least a 250,000 Filipinos were killed, then the country was turned into a brothel for the US soldiers, and it continues to be used in that manner. We don’t find Billy Graham and his ilk lecturing about the sin here. Nor do we find the voices for women’s rights; I suppose if they covered up instead of spreading their legs to the US soldiers then it would be cause for alarm! The Filipinos have the right of retribution for the carnage and rape.
www.informationclearinghouse.info...

reply posted on 11-9-2008 @ 12:37 PM by ressiv

remember.. the cuba incident in the 60's started also with the deployment of american missiles in the turkey's......
ussr were just responding to it with bringing missiles to cuba..

so after 40 years.. nothing has chainced

[edit on 11-9-2008 by ressiv]

reply posted on 11-9-2008 @ 12:41 PM by rjmelter

Manson its a good thing you did quoting all of those ancient stories. However The generation being raised in America more then ever agrees with your "stance"... not you. America was founded on blood. " Kill for your religion!" America was founded to escape religious persecution. Which does make it wrong... But. Anyone clinging to religion is a fraud.

I however think you should also label these south american countries terrorists also because the spaniards when they came and killed all the.. INDIANS of SOUTH AMERICA! They were in high numbers also. I think perhaps you should label all countries except CHILLE Terrorists (chille has remains of indian cultures). Stop being so racist and bias against the U.S. You have to persecute EVERYONE for their dirty deeds. That includes India Iran Iraq Syria Austrailia. The only people who are decently innocent of genocide are Africans... but that will have to be retracted for the current ongoings of Africa.

DONT FORGET RUSSIA.

As im sure you are well aware Russia, and Germany exterminated Millions upon Millions of Jews... and others. I bet you might try to justify that also with Jews are anti my religon. So whatever. Every country in this world who has set up BORDERS is GUILTY of crime of GENOCIDE. LAND IS NOT OURS TO CLAIM. We are a part of the Earth, we are its care takers.

It is reponses like yours why we people inhabiting Earth are at WAR. SHERE IGNORANCE.

Oh and let me Recap...

There are very few countries on this planet that should not be called Terrorist Countries or States. We have all taken what is not ours in order to control what we lust for.

Welcome to Earth School.

[edit on 11-9-2008 by rjmelter]

reply posted on 11-9-2008 @ 12:45 PM by dragonridr

I really get tired of this If there was proof of your accusations then ever news agency on the planet would be carrying the story. Truth is terrorists did take over the planes at the airport, and they did crash them into buildings. Now who planned for this to happen is another thing entirely. I guarantee the us govt did not plan this, However they may have ignored the warnings which in a way would make them responsible.