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Lipstick on a Pig - McCain used it first

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posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 11:05 AM
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First off, let me state that in my opinion, Obama's use of the saying "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig", and the use of the exact same sentence by McCain are not sexist. It's a saying that has been used many times, and if you look at the context both candidates used it, it is CLEAR that they were talking about issues, and not their opponents.

However, it seems as though MANY McCain supporters are jumping on it, but they have to know that this term has been used by him as well.


In Iowa last October, McCain drew comparisons between Hillary Clinton's current health care plan and the one she championed in 1993: "I think they put some lipstick on the pig, but it's still a pig." He used roughly the same line in May, after effectively claiming the Republican nomination.


Lipstick on a pig

So you see, in this case, McCain was talking about Hillary's health care plan compared to the one she was proposing in 1993.

In Obama's case, he was talking about how McCain's supposed "change" is nothing but the same thing as Bush's policies...


John McCain says he's about change too, and so I guess his whole angle is, 'Watch out George Bush -- except for economic policy, health care policy, tax policy, education policy, foreign policy and Karl Rove-style politics -- we're really going to shake things up in Washington,'" he said.

"That's not change. That's just calling something the same thing something different. You know you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig


So as you can see....neither of the uses of this phrase is sexist, it's in reference to policy matters, and is a well known face. Everyone on both sides of the political spectrum need to stop nitpicking on every word the candidates say, stop reading something into them that isn't there, and deal with the issues. These types of petty arguments just make the people arguing them look foolish (IMO).




posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 11:38 AM
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Thanks for clarifying the "issue" so well. I find the changing attitudes of ceratin media outlets very intriguing in their handling of claims of racism and claims of sexism. I just want to hear about the issues. I want each candidate to be able to speak about their plans and less time focusing on others plans.


To the candidates:
Why should we vote FOR you?



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 11:42 AM
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It is known expression and while not used that often it isn't that uncommon either.

Like most people, I have politcal views - but I'm going to try to keep them out of this and step back and take a look at it.

My thoughts are that this hub-bub basically boils down to the following.

1. Repub. VP candidate uses a "lipstick" expression referring to herself.
2 Dem Pres. candidate uses another "lipstick" expression while talking about Repub. policies.
3. Repub. VP candidate is a polarizing figure, already the subject of a countless amount of coverage of all types, (positive and negative - each with varying degrees of truth).
4. People are people and hear what they want to hear. Some see it as dig and go, "Yeah! That's Right!!" Some see it as a dig and are offended.
5. Republicans capitalize on #4.

There has been plenty said by both parties thus far that are obvious digs and worth getting worked up over if it fits your views. I'm not sure this is one of them though...



[edit on 10-9-2008 by Frogs]



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by sensfan
 


Nice work lady! I appreciate your reasoned approach to this matter. This phrase is actually pretty commonplace, at least in my environment. I hear it probably once a week. My wife thinks it's a very funny cliche'.



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 11:49 AM
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Great point, sensfan.

I also wonder how John McCain can make a blatantly sexist move by choosing a person whose only additive to his voter base is her gender and then accuse Obama of being sexist.
It's boggling, really.

It's the Politics of Distraction and Deception that are at work in this election more than ever before.

Good times.



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 12:05 PM
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Actually you are completely incorrect in your assessment of the "context" in which this statement was given. Obama knew full well that he was referring to Palin, and the constituents do too. At the very least, Obama failed to think about the words coming out of his mouth, and whomever his debate coaches and speech advisors are should be getting a kick in the rear for their negligence. Why do you think that Obama's crowd, the very same people who seemed so dead quiet throughout the entire speech, began to laugh, applaud, and erupt into cheers at this remark? Do you believe they failed to make the connection?



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by TheAgentNineteen
 


Okay, this is a double standard if i've ever heard one. McCain can use the common cliche' but Obama can't? That's just silly.



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Great point, sensfan.

I also wonder how John McCain can make a blatantly sexist move by choosing a person whose only additive to his voter base is her gender and then accuse Obama of being sexist.
It's boggling, really.


Good times.



It is people like you that represent a partisanship ideal where, with your mind already dead set on a candidate, the "opposition" can do no right. Your statement represents a fact that in your mind, McCain is damned if he does, and damned if he does not.



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 12:09 PM
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Double Post

[edit on 9-10-2008 by TheAgentNineteen]



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
Actually you are completely incorrect in your assessment of the "context" in which this statement was given. Obama knew full well that he was referring to Palin, and the constituents do too. At the very least, Obama failed to think about the words coming out of his mouth, and whomever his debate coaches and speech advisors are should be getting a kick in the rear for their negligence. Why do you think that Obama's crowd, the very same people who seemed so dead quiet throughout the entire speech, began to laugh, applaud, and erupt into cheers at this remark? Do you believe they failed to make the connection?


And mccain wasnt referring to hillary??? Cmon. The hypocrisy of this is making me ill.....

Here's the video so you dont have to click the link




posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
Actually you are completely incorrect in your assessment of the "context" in which this statement was given. Obama knew full well that he was referring to Palin, and the constituents do too.


Can you show me where in his speech where he used this phrase that he was referring directly to Palin? He is referring directly the to so called change in washington that McCain has been talking about...period. What others infer from it is not the point.

I assume you think McCain's use of it was referring to Hillary the person, not her health care proposal then?



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by The Cyfre
reply to post by TheAgentNineteen
 


Okay, this is a double standard if i've ever heard one. McCain can use the common cliche' but Obama can't? That's just silly.



I never said one can use it, and the other cannot. What I did say is there is a MAJOR difference in context. Everyone knows of the "Lipstick" reference that Palin mentioned during her Nomination speech, and we also all know of the fact that Obama has been heavily Campaigning against Palin as of recent. Within that context, it is nearly impossible to not make the connection. If Obama did not mean it in the present context, he could have clarified it today while in Norfolk, VA. However, he became defensive and failed to do so.



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 12:27 PM
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It amazes me most that in a day were are troops are getting killed in Iraq, in Afghanistan, people are loosing their jobs and homes, people in this country die each day because lack pf proper health care, our kids get dumber the GOP chooses once again to dived the country with this non issue?

They dont anything else to talk about!! Gov.Palin wont give interviews and refuse to take questions from reporters in the campaign trail. Why? If Obama or Biden do this the GOP would be all over that too.

-How they going to fix the economy and create jobs? Drill, baby, Drill!

- How we are going to improve healthcare? Lets the free market take care of it. YEAH the same free market that took this economy to the ground leaving a lot pf people homeless in the process and then waiting for governemnts bailouts.

-What are we going to do in Afghanistan and Iraq? Stay there for 100 years whether they want us there or not because GOD want us there.

-What about Iran? To quote John McCain: "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran!"

No wonder why they dont talk about the issues, no wonder why Gov. Palin dont take question or give interviews, she is just a face and a mouthpiece. If you look closely at their platform is really more of the same.

[edit on 10-9-2008 by Bunch]



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 12:32 PM
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The Phrase was not directed to Palin but darn I wanted to be


Exactly Bunch,

Too bad, I guess while we in this countries are plague with so many issues affecting this nation's economy and the corruption going rampant in the government our media attention goes to a pig with lipstick I am ashame to see how propaganda plays a role on steering away with the issues that are supposed the ones important.

Just for a pig with lipstick.


[edit on 10-9-2008 by marg6043]



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 09:29 PM
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Where are all the McCain/Pallin supporters and what do they have to say about this?

On another note ... I have done a quick bit of googling for a reaction from McCain himself ... I can't find any? ... Has any one got a direct quote from McCain himslef on this?



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 09:34 PM
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What could one say? Theres not much to defend here. Both politicians used the phrase. Because its just a figure of speech! I suspect a quiet response in this thread.



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 09:34 PM
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I am not an Obama supporter by any means, but I've said all along (and in the thread that got closed down) that he was speaking about "change" (or his opposition's lack thereof) not about Palin.

I think the lipstick is what has everyone loopy about this.

Questionable choice of words at a bad time.....add a dash (or a heapin' helpin') of spin, and voila!! A lovely little political scandal to take the minds of the masses off the issues of this campaign.

If there are issues any more, that is.....



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 09:37 PM
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One good thing came out of this night and its this thread!

Starred, flagged and a STANDING OVATION TO YOU.




posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 09:41 PM
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There is a similar thread on this subject that has already been closed. In fact, twice.

Please refer to the last post in this link.

Thank you and Thread Closed.






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