Scientific experiements or spiritual awakenings?

Originally posted by earthchild
I have always been a scientific person, but after hearing so many stories over the years I became curious why and how, certain people experienced events that seemed so incredibly significant to them.
I fasted and meditated and went through the 'prescribed rituals', and yet nothing happened.
I thought they were all nuts, but in a happy, pleasant way.
So I gave up a loooong time ago, and moved on with life.

Out of the blue, a couple of years ago, I had an NDE, and my life has totally changed.
It was the most intense experiences I have ever had in my life.
I didn't know how to quantify it.., I wasn't expecting this sort of this crap, in my scientific mind the only way I could explain it to others was I that 'I had solved pi'.
Thankfully my family was supportive and didn't have me committed...

My feelings were an overwhelming and incredible wonderful feeling of love, maybe you could discount that as a burst of '___' from the pineal gland.

I felt as though I had experienced an incredibly spiritual experience.
I have never been religious and as a trained scientist, I just don't know how else to explain it.
I suddenly became this wonderfully magnetic person, people have always liked me, but after that it was scary.
I seemed to have the healing powers (I say seemed because I believe the power of healing is within us all).
Even though I felt like I was emminating nothing but love, it was difficult for several reasons.
Life has not been easy since then, harder than ever actually, yet I feel ok about things. Well, I have to, don't I.

When I had my NDE, I felt that I was welcomed home but given a choice.
I was told I had already done what I was supposed to and I was 'home', but I could choose to return to complete another task.
I chose to return.
Thats my perception of events anyway, for what it's worth.

It is a couple of years later now, and I really don't know what to tell you.

Did I just experience the overwhelming feeling of love and connection to the universe, because of of a burst of '___' released at the moment of 'death'?

All I know is that years later the incredibly overwhelming feeling of love I felt at that moment has waned.
But in my heart I know I still have something to do.
I just know.
It isn't something I can quantify or prove to anyone else, it is just something subjective I know in my soul.
I'm not trying to prove antything to anyone, if it makes me happy to think I'm here for a reason then good for me.

I can't give you a reason for being here, only you can.

And yes, I think that answer sucks, I can't offer you proof, wish I could.
Maybe it's all subjective.
I hope you find your answer for yourself, whatever it is.

Thats an awesome story. Many people have similar experiences and there is a lot of information and data out there on near death experiences and life after death.

With regards to your earlier spiritual practise I think you probably should have stuck with it longer. It takes practise, patience and time...

I think sometimes, when we question spirituality we loose the ability to experience it and accept it for what it is on an individual bases.. We dont know yet if we all have the same experiences just like we can prove that food tastes the same or that your perception of Blue is not my Green. Perception of reality of all this is subjective and the same can be said for spirituality.

We all have events in our lives that give us the oppurtunity to think beyond our scientific upbringing and logical minds within the phyiscal, and it is at these times we can allow ourselves to quieten the mind and focus on just the experience within the moments that follow. I guess to question and seek out the whys, whats, hows and whens, for a person trying to grasp the concept of spirituality has missed the point that by doing that. by looking at spirituality from a scientific view point will never get you as an individual into that space for you to create the stillness within for those very questions to be answered.

Originally posted by misuneko
I think sometimes, when we question spirituality we loose the ability to experience it and accept it for what it is on an individual bases.. We dont know yet if we all have the same experiences just like we can prove that food tastes the same or that your perception of Blue is not my Green. Perception of reality of all this is subjective and the same can be said for spirituality.

We all have events in our lives that give us the oppurtunity to think beyond our scientific upbringing and logical minds within the phyiscal, and it is at these times we can allow ourselves to quieten the mind and focus on just the experience within the moments that follow. I guess to question and seek out the whys, whats, hows and whens, for a person trying to grasp the concept of spirituality has missed the point that by doing that. by looking at spirituality from a scientific view point will never get you as an individual into that space for you to create the stillness within for those very questions to be answered.

I can see what you mean but you've just seen what happens when you have that outlook. You get laughed at and ridiculed by others who just think you are crazy. I'm not saying that you have to understand the science behind spiritual experiences in order to benefit from them AT ALL. But in your OP you said what should people do about this? If more aspects of spirituality were understood on a factual level as in the hows and whys you'd get less people like that rude guy who came in and laughed at you and the other contributor. More and more people in the west are taking eastern spiritual philosophies and practices seriously. I know that this has been helped by the fact that much of it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to have real benefits. If there was more mainstream scientific interest into this field then I think there could be even greater benefits and a lot of good stuff to be learned.

But yeah I'm not saying at all that you need to understand the hows and whys of the experience in order to benefit and learn from it. I just think that everyone could gain a lot if the hows and whys were understood and taken seriously by more people in mainstream academia...

Do you see my point?

[edit on 11-9-2008 by Space_Ed]

I just remembered a good story from India that perfectly describes your criticism of looking at it from a sciencey point of view:

There were two men in a boat. The guy being carried to the island said to the guy rowing 'do you know anything about spirituality?' The guy rowing the boat said 'no sir I don't.' The other guy laughed at him and said 'you fool how can you ever expect to get anywhere in life? I've read all the books in the world on spirituality and how it all works.' Then the boat hit a rock and the boat started to sink. The guy rowing the boat dropped his oars and said 'sir can you swim? The boat is going to sink.' The other guy confidently said 'I've read all the books in the world on swimming I will make it to the island.' The rower made it to the island but the other guy drowned.

The point of that story is that in order to benefit from spiritual practice you have to actually do it just like you actually have to learn to swim yourself in order to do it and not drown.

[edit on 11-9-2008 by Space_Ed]

This is an example of science and spirituality coming together, leading to real tangible benefits like curing mental and physical illness:

www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org...

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

And that's the only place it is, I'm afraid.

There is no spirtuality, and you can't provide a single piece of non-anecdotal evidence to corroborate it.

Prove me wrong.

10000s of people having the same experience has to count for something. If there was nothing to it,the experiences wouldn't be the same,time over and over again. (take the NDE for prime example)

with youre attitude,it's like you know all there is to know. Because science has told you what to think and what it's ok to think. Just because science hasn't found a way to wrap a tape measure around it and put it in a box,it doesn't mean thatr it can't exist. I'm just glad the actual scientists don't think like you. We'd still be rubbing sticks together to make fire.

reply to post by earthchild


beautiful

I'm both fascinated and blown away by the NDE. As so many of the accounts are resoundingly simular. Yes,some have a few things that seem to be down to ones personal beliefs (beings of light appearing as religious figures ect) But the bulk of what happens in each case remains the same. Thank you for posting your account,glad you're hear to tell it!!

As for loosing that loveing felling (woohawhohawhoo) Meditate on love,each deep breath you take just allow yourself to be overwhealmed with love. better than drugs is that one.

reply to post by Space_Ed


loved your example!

Yeh spiritual aspects of any kind require practice and dedication. until you learn how to do it. Its not as simple as putting A to B and you get C.

But its hard to focus and allow yourself to keep on focusing... Maybe this is why so many people out there frown at aspects of spirituality.. because they give it a good go.. but then give up. Like anything it takes time to learn something and practice. Or they simply dont start trying because there is no proof that anything benifical for them will come of it, only when you can experience the difference yourself first hand what aspects of spirituality does ,can you appreaciate different aspects of your own life and how it improves. And you dont need a science to verify it if you are experiencing the benifests first hand.

Originally posted by misuneko
reply to post by Space_Ed

 

loved your example!

Yeh spiritual aspects of any kind require practice and dedication.

until you learn how to do it. Its not as simple as putting A to B and you get C.

But its hard to focus and allow yourself to keep on focusing... Maybe this is why so many people out there frown at aspects of spirituality.. because they give it a good go.. but then give up. Like anything it takes time to learn something and practice. Or they simply dont start trying because there is no proof that anything benifical for them will come of it, only when you can experience the difference yourself first hand what aspects of spirituality does ,can you appreaciate different aspects of your own life and how it improves. And you dont need a science to verify it if you are experiencing the benifests first hand.

I think you hit the mark there...

Originally posted by Acidtastic
reply to post by earthchild

 

beautiful

I'm both fascinated and blown away by the NDE. As so many of the accounts are resoundingly simular. Yes,some have a few things that seem to be down to ones personal beliefs (beings of light appearing as religious figures ect) But the bulk of what happens in each case remains the same. Thank you for posting your account,glad you're hear to tell it!!

As for loosing that loveing felling (woohawhohawhoo) Meditate on love,each deep breath you take just allow yourself to be overwhealmed with love. better than drugs is that one.

I think that when people experience spiritual figures and the like when they have a NDE- it isn't because its some sort of delusion because of their upbringing as so many non-religious people have similar experiences. I think that they either do meet these people and/or whoever it is that greets them wants to do it in as much of an easy way as is possible and so they appear to them in ways they can be comfortable with and cope with. That is just speculation but I think that would probably make the most sense based on what people usually experience.

reply to post by Space_Ed


and I agree with you

Science can even begin to explain it,with the holographic model

What this post was meant to be about was how this world is forming today... take the ancient civilizations like the Egyptians that did initiations to heighten their own spirituality and knowledge.. Look at yogis around the world and the people who do not need everything that this society says it gives us. Materialism, owning far to many objects that create our minds to wonder off to the external instead of being out in the world adventuring and seeking fulfillment within. Science seems to have help us in so many ways but has created so much that we should be doing (if we think about what ancient civilizations were meant to be able to do spiritually) internally to the external. Is there a point when we all come together and bring our power back to each human being? Not let computers work out our calculations, cook our food at super speeds or try to discover the mysteries of the universe. Maybe we all individually have that access to untold knowledge and the answers to questions that science can only hypotheses on.

I think we need a balance of knowing that we do not need to give to much away of our internal abilities and make them external. we need to remember how to live with nature and create our days living in the world, both equally with science and with spirituality.

Originally posted by Acidtastic
reply to post by Space_Ed

 

and I agree with you

Science can even begin to explain it,with the holographic model

Yeah... I still need to have a look into that...

Originally posted by misuneko
...If we think about what ancient civilizations were meant to be able to do spiritually...

Any chance you could point me in the right direction to any of this? I've only heard and read rough unverified statements. Cheers.

Spirituality is what you make of it.

I've experienced many different organized religions and practically none of them were for me. I'm more of a Universalist. I accept that there are things in the universe that are much bigger in the overall scheme than myself ... or even human beings. To think that human beings are the pinnacle of evolution is a very disheartening feeling and leaves me in dismay every time I think of how hateful MOST people are (see some responses in the thread for examples).

It would seem to me that even a dog is far more spiritually advanced that human beings. I think science has a long way to go with spiritualism. When we learn to hold both of these subjects in the same regards is when human beings will again continue to advance as a species. It seems that we've been bogged down in the physical world of non-existent importance. Take for example debt. It a driving force in our current world ... yet it's a physically non-existent creation. It's things like these that restrict us from moving forward as a species.

The only way I've reached higher levels of spiritual peace and understanding is through deep trance-like states. It's sometimes hard to achieve, but it is out there. I'd recommend trance music and possibly alternative "medicines". Don't give up!

One very important thing is to never stop learning! Knowledge is a powerful tool ... in all things.