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atheists stick their head in the sand/ignore probability!

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posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by JesusisTruth
 


Great posts my man!!! You spent a lot of time here...good job!!

Agree with most...

I would be irresponsible to not share my relationship with Jesus...I'm commanded to content for the faith and to love...check out John 13:34, 25---this is my life's anthem...it's on my signature below...

How will they know, ,unless someone tells them...and who will tell them, unless someone sends one to teach? paraphrase, I think Romans?

OT




posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 04:33 PM
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But, of course, there are many more than eight prophecies. In another calculation, Stoner used 48 prophecies (Idem, 109) (even though he could have used Edersheim's 456), and arrived at the extremely conservative estimate that the probability of 48 prophecies being fulfilled in one person is the incredible number 10^157. In fact, if anybody can find someone, living or dead, other than Jesus, who can fulfill only half of the predictions concerning the Messiah given in the book "Messiah in Both Testaments" by Fred J. Meldau, the Christian Victory Publishing Company is ready to give a ONE thousand dollar reward! As apologist Josh McDowell says, "There are a lot of men in the universities that could use some extra cash!" (Josh McDowell, Evidence that Demands a Verdict, California: Campus Crusade for Christ, 175).


Source: www.biblebelievers.org.au...



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by noobfun
 


Noobfun...hey, what's up?

You said "...do you attend church regularily?
when did you last pray?
where did you pray?
what did you pray for?
how did you pray?

answer those honestly this is how youve been taught, now go check in the bible, twice jesus teaches how and what to pray for, and once he teaches where to pray now compare how much like his teachings your answers are

=======

Answer-I go to church on Sunday mornings only, probably three times a month, I last prayed @ 5:18pm today, I prayed in my closet/well living room, I prayed for you!, I prayed to myself, quietly.

How's I do/measure up?

Thanks

OT


church .. meah not really very good

closet good, living room will do

you prayed for me ..... very very bad

prayed to yourself quietly ... he didnt specify if it should be said quietly or outloud but he did say you should only use the lords prayer

luke 11:1-2
Matthew 6:5-13

most people are taught to say the lords prayer and to be like heathens also when they pray ..... not a good thing really

as for the probability, mathmatically yes its great odds if your starting where you think your starting

OT you write a book, a book with 48 lines in that can be taken for prophecy, this book is well known by many many people

a thousand years from now someone (we will call him bob) writes down the story of thier friends life(jim) and pays special attention to any parts that are similar to the 48 prophecies in your book, so you have a few that are a good match its not hard to be creative suddenly the story of jim matches almost every prophecy in your book

behold jim is the man that you prophesised so bob puts your book together with his book on the life of jim and teaches people that jim is your chosen one and they take copies and spread them on

now probability shows matching all 48 of your prophesies is unbelievabley high

the numbers are that high theres just no way it can be random chance jim is infact the person you said would come the mathmatition believes the story of jim that bob has written is 100% accurate in every detail so his maths are 100% accurate

the new testament has been shown some of its gospels have been selectivley editted and rearranged we have compared complete bound bibles to older copies of the individual gospels and they have shown this

the gospels could have been editted to help prove that the prophesised fits the prophesey more then just his written story would on its own

thats why the odds of matching 48 are not the incredible number 10^157 anymore, if the answers were made to fit the question the probability of all 48 is now 1:1

thats why of more interest are the prophocies that are in the bible that jesus didnt match

i dont know them i dont think anyones really ever looked for them

but if we did we could then ask why he didnt and if he had how would that have changed his story

but for now all we have are a collection of books of unknown origin(we think we know but cant prove it in any way shape or form) that we know have been altered we just dont know how much has been altered by who and for what means

[edit on 11/9/08 by noobfun]



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 06:47 PM
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church .. meah not really very good - please explain?

closet good, living room will do - thanks!

you prayed for me ..... very very bad - ok, why?

prayed to yourself quietly ... he didnt specify if it should be said quietly or outloud but he did say you should only use the lords prayer

...only...???...there are a whole more prayers/types in NT, right?

luke 11:1-2
Matthew 6:5-13

most people are taught to say the lords prayer and to be like heathens also when they pray ..... not a good thing really - agree!

as for the probability, mathmatically yes its great odds if your starting where you think your starting -confused here?



[edit on 11-9-2008 by OldThinker]



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker

The Messiah will be a descendant of Eve
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Genesis 3:15
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Galatians 4:4
According to the bible everyone is a descendant of Eve


The Messiah will be a descendant of Abraham, through whom everyone on earth will be blessed
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Genesis 12:3; 18:18
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Acts 3:25,26
According to the bible everyone is descended from Abraham due to Noah


The Messiah will be a descendant of Judah
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Genesis 49:10
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Matthew 1:2 and Luke 3:33
Genesis pertains to a person NOT a place


The Messiah will be a prophet like Moses
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Deuteronomy 18:15-19
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Acts 3:22,23
How do you figure this one out - no mention of moses at all? and two verses on
"But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die." Is this the messiah???


The Messiah will be the Son of God
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Psalm 2:7
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Matthew 3:17; Mark 1:11; Luke 3:22
Wasn't David the son of god also?, and what about the Elohim (sons of god)? and even the entire tribe of Israel?


The Messiah will be raised from the dead (resurrected)
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Psalm 16:10,11
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Matthew 28:5-9; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:4-7; John 20:11-16; Acts 1:3 and 2:32
The Psalms quote is about David not jesus


The Messiah crucifixion experience
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Psalm 22 (contains 11 prophecies—not all listed here) ...
...NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Matthew 27:35; Mark 15:24; Luke 23:34; John 19:23,24
Again about david but lets look further - were jesus's bones out of joint 22:14? Hmmm UNICORNS 22:21


The Messiah will accused by false witnesses
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Psalm 35:11
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Matthew 26:59,60 and Mark 14:56,57
If jesus is god and god is omniscient then why would jesus have no knowledge of the things they accuse him off (although its about david and not jesus)


The Messiah will be hated without a cause
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Psalm 35:19 and 69:4
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: John 15:23-25
Did I mention that these sayings were about david?


The Messiah will be betrayed by a friend
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Psalm 41:9
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: John 13:18,21
David!!!


The Messiah will ascend to heaven (at the right hand of God)
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Psalm 68:18
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Luke 24:51; Acts 1:9; 2:33-35; 3:20-21; 5:31,32; 7:55-56; Romans 8:34; Ephesians 1:20,21; Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 1:3; 8:1; 10:12; 12:2; 1 Pet 3:22
This verse is about high mountains and the ascending thereof unless heaven is a mountain??


The Messiah will be given vinegar and gall to drink
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Psalm 69:21
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Matthew 27:34; Mark 15:23; John 19:29,30
Depending on which version you read vinegar turns to wine and gall to myrrh Mark 15:23


Great kings will pay homage and tribute to the Messiah
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Psalm 72:10,11
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Matthew 2:1-11
This is about Solomon and Matthews version has one king (herod) who I don't think paid homage nor tribute since he wanted jesus dead.


The Messiah is a “stone the builders rejected” who will become the “head cornerstone”
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Psalm 118:22,23 and Isaiah 28:16
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Matthew 21:42,43; Acts 4:11; Ephesians 2:20; 1 Peter 2:6-8
The Psalms and Isaiah verses are not the same while Matthew states "Did ye never read in the scriptures," which Acts and Peter copies while Ephesians merely states jesus was the corner stone which would also have came from scripture.


The Messiah will be a descendant of David
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Psalm 132:11 and Jeremiah 23:5,6; 33:15,16
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Luke 1:32,33
Jesus never sat on the davidic throne and neither did he reign or prosper


The Messiah will be a born of a virgin
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Isaiah 7:14
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Matthew 1:18-25 and Luke 1:26-35
Virgins were never mentioned, young woman maybe


The Messiah’s first spiritual work will be in Galilee
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Isaiah 9:1-7
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Matthew 4:12-16
So jesus afflicted himself on Galilee?


The Messiah will make the blind see, the deaf hear, etc.
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Isaiah 35:5-6
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Matthew 11:3-6 and John 11:47
This from Isaiah who talks of dragons and unicorns. Doesn't jesus have to spit TWICE in to some guy's eyes to get him to see? what a super miracle that was. Plus these 'miracles' were performed on a daily basis by damn near everyone.

I'm getting bored now and its silly o'clock in the morning here so I will get to the rest some other time but as we can see these predictions do not hold up to scrutiny and we find that selective quoting has been used to try and uphold these predictions.


G



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by shihulud
 


Shihulud, Appreciate the time you put into this post, looking forward to read the other/next one...

OT

PS: Mood? Antitheistic? What's that mean?



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by shihulud
 


Shihulud, Appreciate the time you put into this post, looking forward to read the other/next one...

OT

PS: Mood? Antitheistic? What's that mean?


= = = =



PSS: Here's some more for you....prayin' for your faith journey, OT out!


PREDICTION: Jesus is eternal in His existence
OT: Micah 5:1-2 “Marshal your troops, O city of troops, for a siege is laid against us. They will strike Israel's ruler on the cheek with a rod. 2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."
NT: John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
NT: John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
NT: John 8:58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
NT: Colossians 1:15-19 “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
NT: Ephesians 1:3-14 “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8 that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9 And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment--to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ. 11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.
NT: Revelation 1:18 “I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.”

PREDICTION: Jesus is the Son of God
OT: Psalms 2:7 “I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: He said to me, "You are my Son ; today I have become your Father.
OT: Proverbs 30:4 “Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son? Tell me if you know!
NT: Romans 1:4 “…and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.
NT: Matthew 3:17 “And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
NT: Luke 1:32 “He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,


PREDICTION: Jesus would be anointed with the Spirit of God
OT: Isaiah 11:2 “The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD--
OT: Isaiah 61:1 “The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,
OT: Psalms 45:7-8 “You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy. 8 All your robes are fragrant with myrrh and aloes and cassia; from palaces adorned with ivory the music of the strings makes you glad.
NT: John 3:34 “For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.
NT: Acts 10:38 “How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
NT: Matthew 3:16 “As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker


church .. meah not really very good - please explain? bieng a heathen do it in private or dont do it

closet good, living room will do - thanks! he says smallest room you picked a quiet one

you prayed for me ..... very very bad - ok, why? jesus said dont pray for things god knows what you want/need just say the lords prayer he will handel the rest

prayed to yourself quietly ... he didnt specify if it should be said quietly or outloud but he did say you should only use the lords prayer

...only...???...there are a whole more prayers/types in NT, right? theres a lot of i pray you in the i ask sense of people but no where does jesus say pary any other way then say the lords pray and god will handel the rest

luke 11:1-2
Matthew 6:5-13

most people are taught to say the lords prayer and to be like heathens also when they pray ..... not a good thing really - agree!

as for the probability, mathmatically yes its great odds if your starting where you think your starting -confused here?

if the OT and NT are 100% true and accurate and can be proved as such then yes the probability is high that jesus is the one predicted

we know the NT has been changed rearranged editted through out its history so the prophesies could have been made to match later to push thier own agenda what ever it may have been





[edit on 12/9/08 by noobfun]



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 07:11 PM
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Part 2


The Messiah will be beaten, mocked, and spat upon
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Isaiah 50:6
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Matthew 26:67 and 27:26-31
Since when was jesus mother divorced Isaiah 50:1 and was jesus a slave Is 50:1????


The “Gospel according to Isaiah”
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Isaiah 52:13-53:12
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John
What about the gospel according to Isaiah (didn't think there was one myself)?


People will hear and not believe the “arm of the LORD”
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Isaiah 53:1
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: John 12:37,38

The Messiah will be rejected
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Isaiah 53:3
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Matthew 27:20-25; Mark 15:8-14; Luke 23:18-23; John 19:14,15

The Messiah will be killed
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Isaiah 53:5-9
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Matthew 27:50; Mark 15:37-39; Luke 23:46; John 19:30

The Messiah will be silent in front of his accusers
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Isaiah 53:7
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Matthew 26:62,63 and 27:12-14

The Messiah will be buried with the rich
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Isaiah 53:9
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Matthew 27:59,60; Mark 15:46; Luke 23:52,53; John 19:38-42

The Messiah will be crucified with criminals
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTION: Isaiah 53:12
NEW TESTAMENT FULFILLMENT: Matthew 27:38; Mark 15:27; Luke 23:32,33
You just have to check a few verses before and a few verses after to find that these 'prophesies' are spurious to say the least. As I said in my last post - verses are being selected to try and fulfill someones idea of a prophetic vision and very badly at that.


PS: Mood? Antitheistic? What's that mean?
Just as it says - I am against all recognised forms of god(s), as when put to the test they are nonsensical to say the least.


PSS: Here's some more for you....prayin' for your faith journey, OT out!
Please do not pray for me as it is a waste of your time



PREDICTION: Jesus is eternal in His existence
OT: Micah 5:1-2 “Marshal your troops, O city of troops, for a siege is laid against us. They will strike Israel's ruler on the cheek with a rod. 2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."
Jesus didn't rule over Israel


NT: John 8:58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
To me this statement says that before Abraham there was god NOT that jesus was around before Abraham


NT: Colossians 1:15-19
NT: Ephesians 1:3-14
NT: Revelation 1:18 “
With Colossians and Ephesians - these are supposedly authored by Paul (although this is disputed) who never even knew jesus so any reference is hearsay and Revelation was most certainly written by someone who never knew jesus.


PREDICTION: Jesus is the Son of God
OT: Psalms 2:7 “I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: He said to me, "You are my Son ; today I have become your Father.
OT: Proverbs 30:4 “Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son? Tell me if you know!
NT: Romans 1:4 “…and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.
NT: Matthew 3:17 “And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
NT: Luke 1:32 “He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,
Wasn't he suppose to be called Immanuel? and as I said Jesus never sat on the throne of David(which never existed at the supposed time of Jesus)



PREDICTION: Jesus would be anointed with the Spirit of God
OT: Isaiah 11:2 “The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD--
OT: Isaiah 61:1 “The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,
OT: Psalms 45:7-8 “You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy. 8 All your robes are fragrant with myrrh and aloes and cassia; from palaces adorned with ivory the music of the strings makes you glad.
NT: John 3:34 “For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.
NT: Acts 10:38 “How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
NT: Matthew 3:16 “As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him
All I can say is - Isaiah, like to talk about non existant beings i.e dragons and unicorns; Psalms, all about david or solomon; John, didn't god sent prophets that lie?; Acts, Jesus wasn't that special at the time as 'miracles' were being performed left, right and centre on daily basis by who knows how many people; Matthew, has some vivid imagination and see's things that no-one else does - no mention of jesus levitating out of the water(above) by any other author, no mention of the dead rising at jesus crucifixion by any other author etc etc.

Also with Matthew please explain this:
Matthew 27:9-10
Then was fulfilled what has been spoken by the prophet Jeremiah, saying “And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him on whom a price has been said by some of the sons of Israel, and they gave them for the potter’s field, as the Lord directed me.” when this 'prophecy' is actually in Zechariah 11:12-13 and not Jeremiah as claimed by Matthew. So much for a unerring bible when jesus's friend hasn't a clue what he's on about.


G



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 01:55 AM
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here you go OT


Now as for communion in the OT.

Malachias 1:11 prophecied the spreading of communion.

And as for men speaking to men. paul was a real apostle and worked many miracles. Christ also said (do this in memeory of me in all save one (I think) the gospels at the last supper.


now this is another fulfilled prophecy of the bible

it foretells the spreading of the communion they copy the pure offering and then eat it and they burn incense and give praise to god from when the sun rises to when it sets

its Malachai 1:11

its pulled out as proof that christianity is whats predicted in the bible as what god wants

now this is proof that the communion was prophesiesed and this presumably also shows the church of god that was prophesiesed too

comunion is a massive corner stone of christianity, they drink the blood of jesus and eat his flesh every sunday

but Mal 1:11 is proof that heathens will hijack his religeon, the heathens will copy the pure offering, and they will burn incense and they will praise him and be in awe

so whats a pure offering?

Lev 24:5 - 9 make 12 cakes stick them in 2 rows of 6 add a little frankenscence and offer them to god every sunday and they shall be eaten by the sons of Aaron only (is everyone a son of Aaron now?)

and incense surley god likes that though and allows that to burnt from swinging metal balls on chains?

Lev 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.

Lev 10:2 And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.

apparently not, he likes it burnt on the incense alter like all his sacrifices that he demands be done for ever he is very peticular about what should be done

so wait .... god who knows all that was is and shall be says that heathens will be in awe of him and will copy the pure offering and burn incense and praise his name

these are the actions of the heathens not the chosen one's of god, not the children of the creator

Jesus didnt say for everyone to do this, he did it once and from that a whole mass of ceremony was created which god already prophesiesed the heathens the ungodly would do

so if god said dont do it, and jesus didnt say for everyone to do it then who said it should be done? every sunday for everyone

im not misquoting any of this, simple test go look at the passages check a couple of verses up and a couple down, is it being taken out of context?

so people go to church like hypocrites before the lord

Matt 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Pray like heathens using many prayers and asking for things

Matt 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking

Matt 6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

copy the pure offering burn incense and praise him all day long like heathens

Mal 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

god and jesus denounce the modern church for the heathens they are, that copy and subvert thier holy words and messages

be not like a heathen and follow the path of God

avoid church, do not flourish your religeon for other men to see, do not ask of god he will provide what you need as he see's fit, do not burn incense or take communion!!


[edit on 13/9/08 by noobfun]



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 08:59 AM
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PS: Mood? Antitheistic? What's that mean?
Just as it says - I am against all recognised forms of god(s), as when put to the test they are nonsensical to say the least.


PSS: Here's some more for you....prayin' for your faith journey, OT out!
Please do not pray for me as it is a waste of your time



Another good response, thanks!

Regarding the particular above comment...

Let's put some TIME on it....feelings, thoughts, perspectives all change over time...especially when a committed believer prays...which I am doing big boy!!

Good thing this 'record' will be here for a while...

I'm looking forward to the day when YOU reply to YOUR orginal quote and admit you've changed, too. Until then...I'll be putting other scriptural references up linking OT and NT...there are so many...the moderators would obliterate the length so I'll do them from time to time...ok?

Appreciate your tenacity...I'm excited to see that moxi...when it is being used for HIM....

OT appreciates the dialog! The issue is not my TIME, but your eternity



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 09:08 AM
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Here’s some more linkages from the OT to the NT…enjoy!

Prediction: Jesus' name is the same as the Tetragrammaton ……YHWH…..
OT: Isaiah 9:5-7 Every warrior's boot used in battle and every garment rolled in blood will be destined for burning, will be fuel for the fire. 6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.
OT: Jeremiah 23:5-6 "The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land. 6 In his days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. This is the name by which he will be called: The LORD Our Righteousness.
NT: Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
NT: Philippians 2:9-11 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Prediction: Jesus would be The King
OT: Psalms 2:6 "I have installed my King on Zion, my holy hill."
NT: John 18:33-37 Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, "Are you the king of the Jews?" 34 "Is that your own idea," Jesus asked, "or did others talk to you about me?" 35 "Am I a Jew?" Pilate replied. "It was your people and your chief priests who handed you over to me. What is it you have done?" 36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place." 37 "You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."

Prediction: Jesus would be a Prophet
OT: Psalms 110:4 The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."
NT: Hebrews 5:5-6 “So Christ also did not take upon himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father." 6 And he says in another place, "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."
Hebrews 6:20 “…where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.
Hebrews 7:14-17 “For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."

Prediction: Jesus would be a Prophet
OT: Deuteronomy 18:15 “The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.
OT: Deuteronomy 18:18 “I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.
NT: Acts 3:20-22 “…and that he may send the Christ, who has been appointed for you--even Jesus. 21 He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. 22 For Moses said, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you.


That ul’ do for now….

OT



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
PS: Mood? Antitheistic? What's that mean?
Just as it says - I am against all recognised forms of god(s), as when put to the test they are nonsensical to say the least.


PSS: Here's some more for you....prayin' for your faith journey, OT out!
Please do not pray for me as it is a waste of your time




Another good response, thanks!

Regarding the particular above comment...

Let's put some TIME on it....feelings, thoughts, perspectives all change over time...especially when a committed believer prays...which I am doing big boy!!

Good thing this 'record' will be here for a while...

I'm looking forward to the day when YOU reply to YOUR orginal quote and admit you've changed, too.
Extreeeeemly and most highly unlikely - I am not an atheist just for the sheer hell of it or because it is the fad of the week. I am an atheist because religion and its concepts (was going to say ideals but some religious ideals are quite sound although I don't think that religion has the monopoly on those ideals) make no sense to me i.e why would an omniwhatever deity spend 5 days creating this backwater planet but only spend 1 day creating the rest of the the universe only to spend the 7th day resting?, why would omnigod need to rest? a non physical being needs rest? Just so that WE would rest on the 7th day and pay homage to it - somehow I don't think so.


Until then...I'll be putting other scriptural references up linking OT and NT...there are so many...the moderators would obliterate the length so I'll do them from time to time...ok?
Fire away friend, as many as you like but while your doing this maybe you'd like to chime in with your views on the answers and questions posed and not just bypass them.


Appreciate your tenacity...I'm excited to see that moxi...when it is being used for HIM....

OT appreciates the dialog! The issue is not my TIME, but your eternity
Explain Moxi? and yet again please don't think that your in some way saving me from myself or 'my eternal damnation' because these things are meaningless to me. I can assure you that even if the christian god or any other was proven truthful I still wouldn't worship it.

G



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
Here’s some more linkages from the OT to the NT…enjoy!



Prediction: Jesus would be The King
OT: Psalms 2:6 "I have installed my King on Zion, my holy hill."
NT: John 18:33-37 Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, "Are you the king of the Jews?" 34 "Is that your own idea," Jesus asked, "or did others talk to you about me?" 35 "Am I a Jew?" Pilate replied. "It was your people and your chief priests who handed you over to me. What is it you have done?" 36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place." 37 "You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."

That ul’ do for now….

OT
So what happened to the prophesy that Jesus wouldn't speak during his trial? Or does replying to Pilate not count?


G



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by shihulud
 


Explain Moxi? and yet again please don't think that your in some way saving me from myself or 'my eternal damnation' because these things are meaningless to me. I can assure you that even if the christian god or any other was proven truthful I still wouldn't worship it.
= = = = = = = = =

I'll chim in, when it's time my friend...be patient...

Moxi means kahona's---smile---to me it means...aggressiveness, assertiveness, assuredness,etc...get it? you got it! Yes...that's a good thing!!!!

OT gauges his posters...I hope carefully...I believe you would argue a point like an engineer to the smallest detail...no time for me to do that ALL the time...but every once and a while...and I will!! Be assured....!

And you, mistakenly, tipped your hand in the last sentence there...OT thinks you don't hate the Lord Jesus because of an intellectual/logical stance----"even if the christian god or any other was proven truthful I still wouldn't worship it." You hate him because of some negative experiences....some anger there, I see.

If opinions are formed through feelings...they can be changed that way, too...you are more than you know!

Even if you don't believe in God...He believes in you!




posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 06:26 AM
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Originally posted by OldThinker

And you, mistakenly, tipped your hand in the last sentence there...OT thinks you don't hate the Lord Jesus because of an intellectual/logical stance----"even if the christian god or any other was proven truthful I still wouldn't worship it." You hate him because of some negative experiences....some anger there, I see.

If opinions are formed through feelings...they can be changed that way, too...you are more than you know!

Even if you don't believe in God...He believes in you!

No, you mistakenly read something that wasn't there. My statement was due to the fact that 1) most readers on this site are christian so why start with Allah or Horus and 2) I really don't like any religion nor they way they work nor their concepts i.e praying and heaven etc and finally 3) why would I hate something that I don't believe in?, the methods and attitudes of the worshipers yes but not the concept of gods, jesus and what not. Just like your last statement - assuming the your right and I'm wrong attitude when you yourself have no knowledge of the existence of a deity but only the assumption that you are correct.


G



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by shihulud

Originally posted by OldThinker

And you, mistakenly, tipped your hand in the last sentence there...OT thinks you don't hate the Lord Jesus because of an intellectual/logical stance----"even if the christian god or any other was proven truthful I still wouldn't worship it." You hate him because of some negative experiences....some anger there, I see.

If opinions are formed through feelings...they can be changed that way, too...you are more than you know!

Even if you don't believe in God...He believes in you!

No, you mistakenly read something that wasn't there. My statement was due to the fact that 1) most readers on this site are christian so why start with Allah or Horus and 2) I really don't like any religion nor they way they work nor their concepts i.e praying and heaven etc and finally 3) why would I hate something that I don't believe in?, the methods and attitudes of the worshipers yes but not the concept of gods, jesus and what not. Just like your last statement - assuming the your right and I'm wrong attitude when you yourself have no knowledge of the existence of a deity but only the assumption that you are correct.


G



Deep breadth ok?

"assuming I'm right" would imply something ACTIVE on my part...I've done nothing...I can't DO anything...I was DEAD in my old lifestyle...a courpse, my man...

GRACE was given me-it was 'passive' on my part...I take/offer/display no pride....was given a gift!

No doubt, I have differing opinions than you...that's what makes ATS enjoyable...you work on me and I'll work on you, ok?

OT



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by OldThinker

Deep breadth ok?

"assuming I'm right" would imply something ACTIVE on my part...I've done nothing...I can't DO anything...I was DEAD in my old lifestyle...a courpse, my man...
Ah but you make that statement of "Even if you don't believe in God...He believes in you!" based on the assumption that god actually exists and that probably it is the same god that you worship. I would say thats an active assumption on your part.



No doubt, I have differing opinions than you...that's what makes ATS enjoyable...
Quite so quite so.


you work on me and I'll work on you, ok?

OT
No probs, but we both already know the outcome, but I enjoy the banter.

G



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by shihulud
 


Help me understand WHY you are an atheist?

When things go well with you, who are you THANKFUL to?

When things go bad, who can you discuss next steps/lessons learned with?

JC is my best friend...for over 35 yrs?

Am I delusional to you?

What about...www.4truth.net...

What about how society has improved...There has been much evidence of Jesus, since Jesus left the world...take for example...women. In ancient cultures, a wife was the property of her husband. Aristotle said that a woman was somewhere between a free man and a slave. According to the book Reasons for God by Tim Keller (page 249), "It was extremely common in the Greco-Roman world to throw out new female infants to die from exposure, because of the low status of women in society. The church forbade its members to do so. Greco-Roman society saw no value in an unmarried woman, and therefore it was illegal for a widow to go more than two years without remarrying. But Christianity was the first religion to not force widows to marry. They were supported financially and honored within the community so that they were not under great pressure to remarry if they didn't want to. Pagan widows lost all control of their husband's estate when they remarried but the church allowed widows to maintain their husband's estate. Finally, Christians did not believe in cohabitiation. If a Christian man wanted to live with a woman he had to marry her, and this gave women far greater security. Also, the pagan double standard of allowing married men to have extramarital sex and mistresses was forbidden. In all these ways Christian women enjoyed far greater security and equality than did women in the surrounding culture. See Rodney Stark, The Rise of Christianity." In India, widows were voluntarily or involuntarily burned on their husbands' funeral pyres. Christian missionaries were a major influence in stopping these century-old practices and ideas.


One more eaxample, to me atleast...I have a watch...

A Good one...

Kind of nice....

Somone MADE/Engineered it, right?

It did not just happen, correct?

My SEIKO...has DESIGN...complexity, fit, form and function, right?

It did not come from chance, right? through time, right?

NO FREAKIN" WAY!!!!!!!!!!!

Someone MADE/engineered it!!!!!

OH HOW MUCH MORE COMPLEX I AM/YOU ARE....than my nice watch....

Every effect...has a cause...

Including my SEIKO...

More so...YOU, your family...etc...the Earth...the universe, etc!!!!!!!!!!!

US=Effect...

God=Cause...

So True...

He is real, oh so real...to me for over 35 years...for more insight into this please visit...www.belowtopsecret.com...



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
When things go well with you, who are you THANKFUL to?


I am just thankful.




When things go bad, who can you discuss next steps/lessons learned with?


Myself, my friends, my family, my spouse...



Am I delusional to you?


No. You just have your own beliefs.



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