New Article Knocking Self-Proclaimed 9/11 "Truthers"

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
And so you know.. I dont talk about the pentagon because I haven't studied it.. This is all going on what I know from the actual government report that they came out with.

That was immediately obvious.

But thankyou for stating that you do not, in fact, know what you are talking about.

OP, hahaha, hang on lemme laugh for a second, hahaha ok, im back

Lets look at this from a practical angle, the Bush Admin has been caught red handed paying over 1.6 billion dollars to news agencies and even individual reporters, we are lead to believe by NIST that building 7 collapses because of "thermal expansion." We are told that Osama Bin laden is the mastermind behind 9/11 yet on the gov'ts website, he hasnt been charged with the crime. Im not even going to mention the fact that this article is clearly biased and has no balance whatsoever. 9/11 was an Inside job, 9/11 WAS an INSIDE job. The article is right about one thing though, it is good to question our leaders, question them endlessly and without mercy, because they would do/have done much worse to their dissenters. And you OP are incorrect, there is "just one" reporter who has covered this, and does so almost on a daily basis, his name is Alex Jones, he has a nationally syndicated radio show. There are celebs, there are reporters, there are regular people like you and me, who do not agree with the propagated version of 9/11. Speaking of MONEY, OP, did you know the official 9/11 report claims that "whoever funded the attacks on 9/11 is of little importance?" Thats like saying Im putting out a hit on someone but that doesnt matter, only the person collecting the money and doing the hit matters, HEY HEY, Im scott free!!

I love this quote by the OP

"From everything that I have read and heard by them, "Truthers" seem disregard the expert analysis of architects and scientists who devote their lives to their respective fields and instead cash them out for the opinions of a Film Director and Graphic Designer."

British MI5 intelligence officers have come forwards, Scientists, Physicists, Chemists, Experts in engineering and the like have come forward, just where are you reading??

What you have lain before us is the offical government version of what happened on 9/11 no more/ no less. If you like being a gov't pattsie, go work for the gov't if you like being a slave, go work for no money, but if you want to be an ignorant sheeperson, go work at a factory and forget all about this site, because this is not what we stand for, we do not stand for false flag terror operations, or propaganda spewing, hate delving, sheeple. We have a right to ask questions to seek truth, and if you really need anymore proof go watch the NIST report that just recently came out dealing with Building #7, go watch Terrorstorm, or Zeitgeist, but please whatever you do... get off of ATS without some hard evidence, or hard facts, you have provided us today with the MSM POV and we already knew what they have to say, if I want to hear anything else from you, I'll just go to where you get your news, FOX featuring Bill O'reilly.

Peace and love

Oh and by the way, your title is even false, we aren't purely self proclaimed Truthers, everyone calls us that... Snip



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[edit on 10/9/2008 by Sauron]

reply to post by BelowGovtThumbs


You have a grand way of distorting things and blowing it out of proportion. Much like the ONE you follow.

I KNEW alex jones and I LIKED alex jones, but here in the last few weeks, I had to admit that alex IS manipulating evidence and is spewing out violent hateful speech to rile ppl up. Is that really not propaganda? He makes fun of ppl like me (not me personally, as I think he wouldn't know what to say to me if he knew I had to change my view), but ppl LIKE me.. turning you and others that follow his herd against logic and ppl like me who DO care about the victims as much as you, but can't deny that the evidence has been manipulated by him and infused w/ music and visuals that are meant to draw on your emotions and then spews out hate telling you must take "them" down.

That doesn't sound like propaganda to you?

No it doesn't sound like propaganda to me, it sounds like a man trying to waken the sheeple, if that is so hard to believe then don't. I for one enjoy a message of empowerment and getting back our constitution and bill of rights, I support a free america, I support a subservient gov't that does our bidding, not a gov't that starts conflict and then has us do its bidding for them... NEVER forget WE control the gov't. We pay them to rule us

peace and love

Even though I believe that the questions have not been answered properly, I do not necessarily accept that it was "an inside job." My greater concern is the government's response to this event. . . or lack thereof.

Given the size and scope of 9-11, the event deserves a full and complete OPEN investigation, if for no other reason than to prove to the public that safeguards have been put in place to prevent it from recurring in the future.

What changes have been made in the Oval Office that ensures our President won't sit around for several minutes while we're under attack? This was obviously a contributing problem.

Why wasn't intelligence information taken more seriously? What changes have been made in that regard? What about others who are here on expired visas?

If high-rise structures may collapse as the result of fire, then we need to examine every skyscraper throughout the US for the potential. I'd like to see the situation recreated on a model so we can fully understand how this occurred and under what circumstances it is likely to occur in the future. Obviously, if the government believes it happened once, logic tells us it is capable of happening again. It should be able to be repeated in the laboratory.

Why hasn't there been sweeping changes to building codes as the result of the WTC 7 collapse? Why not condemn other buildings which were designed in the same manner?

Or, are we supposed to believe that the ONLY time fire will cause a high rise to collapse is when someone flies a jetliner into it? Are we supposed to believe that we are safe in skyscrapers unless jet fuel is present? If someone can shut off the sprinkler system and start a fire, can they collapse ANY high rise?

If a burning, collapsing building can damage other structures nearby (alá WTC 7), are there going to be mass evacuations a block wide whenever there is a high rise fire? Doesn't that seem prudent since our previous understanding of fires was way off? If this is the case, then shouldn't there be a law that whenever there is a fire in the vicinity, every person within a block radius should be notified of the potential danger?

Surely all these government experts and engineers who promote the idea that a fire can fully collapse a steel structure should be gravely concerned for the well-being of the millions of people working in and near high-rises every day. When earthquakes in SF showed that stacking roadways was dangerous, the practice was stopped. It seems odd to me that none of these people are screaming about the thousands of other potentially dangerous buildings in other cities or calling for review of the designs.

If a commercial aircraft can be successfully flown by a rank amateur at high speeds and crashed into our number one military complex, then what other preventive measures have been taken to keep someone from doing this to an airliner hijacked from another country? Are our power plants, reservoirs and other critical services at risk? What changes have been put in place to alert civilian workers when an emergency is not a "drill" or "exercise" so that precious minutes are not wasted?

If NORAD failed to intercept those planes because our focus was on air traffic coming from outside the US, what changes have been made in our defense systems? Or am I the only one who thinks that the "official reason" really means our system basically sucks?

An investigation should focus not only on the events, but exactly where the system failed, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, what changes have been instituted to ensure that it will not be repeated. As an American and a taxpayer, I think I deserve something more than what we have been given -- a weak explanation at best, and no assurances that this will not occur again.

If you truly accepted the official story, why aren't you demanding massive changes to the way things have been done in the past -- high rise safety, defense systems, presidential response, etc. Where's your outrage?

reply to post by InterestedObserver



In reference to the steel not needing to melt in order to weaken the structure... Explain with logical evidence how there was molten steel found at ground zero. You and your article clearly stated jet fuel will not melt steel.

Tell me why debris (large steel mesh plates) were found buried deep inside near by buldings. What causes 1000's of pounds of steel to go flying that far?

You asked me to read the whole article... watch this whole movie please. The conspiracy is not that it was an implosion, thats the truth. The conspiracy is the official story. It's a myth.

9/11 mysteries - demolition

Edit - Collection of great 9/11 documentaries

[edit on 10-9-2008 by Looking4LikeMindz]

Interesting.. don't forget that the reporters that supposingly count are only MSM reporters.. and msm reporters have a boss and that boss has a boss.. etc etc.. if the reporter is investigating somthing someone really highup disagrees with.. well either they stop the story or they get fired plain and simple.. You should see the story of where a fox news affiliate team got fired for investigating growth hormone in cows.. here:
there are probably some of the very few who has fought to get the truth out.. in the end only 5 entities own most news corps.. put it together man... just because an MSM reporter has not done a report on a subject does not mean its not true.. it just means its being squashed..from higher ups

reply to post by BelowGovtThumbs


Sounds like the op is a government shill.. anyone who has actually looked into this knows theres something terribly wrong.. and the hard questions 911 family members are asking are being ignored.. Interesting that it took 2 years to get an investigation going.. which ignored many many key points.. (for example the faa commisioners statement on cheney in the bunker and the airmen commenting on the incoming target..) very interesting that this testimony was ignored in the 911 commision report.. very interesting indeed.. the whole thing stinks.. steel buildings with complete structural failure from fires.. first time in history ..WTC7 not hit by plane... yet free falled as well.. give me a break.. pentagon debris and damage and flightpath not consistant with official story (definetly no plane hit).. only one crappy video showing somthing much smaller then a jet.... good videos confiscated and never shown.. shills usually say we are not privy to that info.. man Its so easy to spot these people.. its almost as if they do it on purpose.. they want you to know that they are cointel or some other op... they make it so obvious.. anyone who blindly completly accepts the official story clearly is either not a rational thinking human being or is on someones payroll. heck most Americans at least beleive the admin had foreknowledge of the attack.. and ignored them which is JUST as bad as doing it.. but these shills would never admit that.. they will say cia i mean Al quada did this... tired of MSM propaganda tired of this BS.People are waking up to all the lies and distortion.. its so easy to see a propaganda hit piece it reminds me of those 50s propaganda
movies.. we can all see thru the BS so why bother?

[edit on 10-9-2008 by thefreepatriot]

"it just means its being squashed..from higher ups "



The more and more people claim that the government is covering something up to greater and greater extents, the less convicing the argument gets. Think about it for a moment. If the government is really controlling the media to that extent, it adds thousands more people that need to keep quiet. The government isn't God. It can't be everywhere at once. The amount of people the government would need to supress to cover something like this up vastly outnumbers the government itself.

Some people refuse to believe hundreds of eyewitnesses that testify to seeing a plane hit the pentagon, yet they do not hesitate to believe that tens of thousands of people are somehow being shushed by less than 100. It just doesn't make sense...

why does every debunker say there are no media personell reporting there was a conspiracy? it seems to me that this has being reported on for seven years. its just that no one will act on it.
and if nothing happened,then the debunkers will gladly put it to the test.
answer the questions linked to below,and i'll be happy,if you prove me wrong

questions that need answering,and facts that need explaining

[edit on 10-9-2008 by Spectre0o0]

[edit on 10-9-2008 by Spectre0o0]

[edit on 10-9-2008 by Spectre0o0]

[edit on 10-9-2008 by Spectre0o0]

Some reasons why trying to say "just beacuse it hasn't been covered in the mainstream news" is obsurd

1. You have no idea how far behind the curtain this goes, this is beyond our government which is just a puppet of a society that exists in secret yet right before our eyes. You really think that if this actually was an attack made by people on the inside, we would have any chance of reporting it? Thats like going back to Nazi Germany in 1938-39 and trying to report that Hitler is bad and he should be stopped, anyone would be foolish to even try, and no matter what they would have failed(killed or not)

2. There is so much evidence that this has actually been covered by the media, A TON, its been all over the place which many credible people, but the funny thing is, once its been covered, it rarely gets covered by the same people or the same agency, why? Because their jobs depend on them doing as they are told, why give up a very high paying job just to try and prove your own point? They won't do it because The reporters are mainly people who have been programmed by society to believe that the government has nothing but our best interests in mind. It is hard to convince them otherwise, because they are so clicked into the society and "hating terrorists" that to think otherwise would sound crazy to them. Thats like going back 500-1000 years and telling everyone that believes the earth is flat that it is in fact a sphere, you really think they will believe you no matter how much evidence you provide? The evidence gets lost behind peoples fears and pre-determined/programmed responses to things that happen in their perception of "reality"

3. How does this article provide any evidence what so ever? The idea that the media hasn't covered this side of the story is false; the article merely says "Common, something so big like this HAS to be covered by the media" but thats a sad thing to think when you can read another recent article on ATS that shows how the media is completely controlled
abovetopsecret.com...

4. The Kennedy assasination was clearly a government plot, with multiple methods of cover up. Why do you think his killer was subsquently killed shortly after?

5. The government knew about Pearl Harbor, the Australians warned us several times, but we ignored them and merely made sure that our "main aircraft carriers" were not in harms way, then let the Japanese rip through Pearl Harbor in order to make it seem like we were "helplessly attacked" and had no warning, thus convincing the American people that they must go to war(the very people who were totally opposed of war with germany at the time). This was not covered in the media because the media and the public had no idea what or how it had happend. Though many people found out that Pearl Harbor could have been avoided or countered while the war was still going on, but guess what, they were all sent to jail for intent of conspiracy or treason...

6. The Battle of Los Angeles: If you have never heard of this event, you are just the result of government coverup or you weren't born at the time. Look it up, this was widely covered by the media, but suddenly was dropped and the government denied everything shortly after the event, even though they do acknoledge that their Anti Aircraft guns stationed in the Los Angeles County in CA did in fact open fire and pound the sky for 15-30 minutes, though you won't find any official reports on what really happened unless you dig deep


Tell me, if they have pulled it off so many times before, what really makes anyone think they don't have the resources to pull it off again?

9/11 was the best was to get American's all pumped up and "patriotic" again, though I find it funny that we even call ourselves patriots these days, that ended when we defeated the english; the day we became "free people". A patriot is someone who fights for their people against an unwanted government

reply to post by Looking4LikeMindz


the official story is the myth.... ironic isn't ? Thermate residue has been found on WTC steel.. which was very difficult to obtain because most of the steel was shipped off to China... how convenient.. there is video evidence of therm ate dripping off one of the towers.. not to mention the high temps recorded by NASA long after the collapse.. and firefighter testimony regarding lava in the basement.. not to mention explosions heard BEFORE plane impact at the basement by WTC survivors.. steel does not melt or lose structural integrity in a kerosene fire... this is a fallacy...ironic that the Lead architect that stated he designed those buildings to withstand 707 impacts.. disapeared around 911.. anyone who continues spilling disinfo knowingly...is guilty of the crimes of 911 just like the perpetraters.. the 911 victims souls look down on those people who do this.

reply to post by Tsuki-no-Hikari


The only people that need to be controlled is management.. the rest will follow because they have bills to pay and need a salary.. its very easy to run a tight ship.. don't forget that if an editor does not agree with your story it just won't get published and you will possibly be terminated. theres a good incentive to keep your mouth shut.. its career suicide to go where you are not supposed to go.. fear keeps everyone in line.. and even if someone gets out of line there story would never make it..

[edit on 10-9-2008 by thefreepatriot]

reply to post by Tsuki-no-Hikari


The goverment is god because they have already created your opinion for you.. Have you actually seen some of the eyewitness testimony? yes a "plane" did hit.. but not a 747 ... not the size of one at all.. and yes it had an AA logo...but have you seen the wreckage and the damage? do you realize that here is no damage to the lawn? do you realize that where the wings would have been and the 2 engines there is no damage??? create your own thoughts and opinions and throw in a little bit of common sense instead of just being spoonfed lies.. the government is your god as I can see.

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
reply to post by Tsuki-no-Hikari

 

The goverment is god because they have already created your opinion for you.. Have you actually seen some of the eyewitness testimony? yes a "plane" did hit.. but not a 747 ... not the size of one at all.. and yes it had an AA logo...but have you seen the wreckage and the damage? do you realize that here is no damage to the lawn? do you realize that where the wings would have been and the 2 engines there is no damage??? create your own thoughts and opinions and throw in a little bit of common sense instead of just being spoonfed lies.. the government is your god as I can see.

Would it surprize you that no 747's crashed on 9/11?

Would it surprize you that EXTENSIVE debris from a 757 was found at the Pentagon? Some even identifying it as an American Airlines Boeing 757?

Would it surprize you that , perhaps, YOU are beeing spoonfed lies? How can you be sure you are not falling for a web-scam?

[edit on 10-9-2008 by Looking4LikeMindz]

From everything that I have read and heard by them, "Truthers" seem disregard the expert analysis of architects and scientists who devote their lives to their respective fields and instead cash them out for the opinions of a Film Director and Graphic Designer.

Here is an example of how the 'Claims' vs 'Reality' argument is laid out in the article.




Claim: There is no way that jet fuel can burn hot enough to melt the steel in the World Trade Centers. Therefore, the fires from the planes could not be the cause of the Tower's collapse.

Reality: Jet fuel burns at 800 degrees to 1,500 degrees Fahrenheit. Steel melts at somewhere in the ballpark of 2,750 degrees. However, the steel did not have to melt like candle wax to cause a collapse. According to the American Institute of Steel Construction, steel loses 50% of it's strength at about 1,000 degrees. In addition, the jet fuel was not the only substance burning. In extreme heat, steel can expand, then sag, then crack, then give way.

I think how the molten steel came up originally was that there was visible molten steel coming out of the side of the tower (1 or 2) prior to it falling as well as molten steel (proven to have chemical signature of thermate) at the base of the towers. The arguement you present is that the steel doesn't melt with jet fuled fires. But, there was molten steel present - that is not debatable. It is then turnend into an arguement about at what temperature steel melts - this is an example of a straw man arguement.

The fact is that molten steel was observed, and found at the base of the tower. The question you should ask yourself is how did it occur without the use of thermate. Logic says that since it cant be created through heating up steel columns with jet fuled fires, it must have occured as a result of thermate cutting charges.