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Neandertals and Modern Humans Coexisted?

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posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 02:41 PM
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I do not believe in evolution, and I want to make that perfectly clear right now.

*clears throat*

...with that out of the way I have a question for fellow Creationists. I was talking with someone in my church who is very well taught, and could argue an evolutionist into considering Creationism without a single hitch. During our talk he made mention of Neandertals and it surprised me. I mean he said neandertals and humans could very well have coexisted, but does not believe in evolution.

He did not have a good argument for why he believes this. His statements were along the lines of Neandertals aren't very different from humans, and are most likely the result of a genetic mutation; one similar to those that gives us various breeds of dogs. In other words, Neandertals could be mistaken for modern day people right here and now--you'd just never know it. They look just like everyone else.

Now... my problem with this theory of his is that most of what he says is solid. Not even an evolutionist can argue against Creationism when they speak with him. That's how intelligent this guy is... and when he mentioned this Neandertal stuff his argument for them seemed so weak... I just can't get over it.

So my question to you all is; do you think he could be right? Could Neandertals be living among us right now and we simply can't tell the difference?

[edit on 9-9-2008 by the_watcher]

[edit on 9-9-2008 by the_watcher]




posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by the_watcher
 


No.

No amount of intelligence will make evolution any less of a scientific fact.



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by the_watcher
So my question to you all is; do you think he could be right? Could Neandertals be living among us right now and we simply can't tell the difference?


Some current human populations have features that might seem a bit Neandertal-like, such as the Australian Aborigines, but that can generally be accounted for with inter-species mutations. Like different breeds of dogs looking different, even though they are actually still all dogs.

Neandertals were pretty much a separate species that modern humans did not descend from. They were like wolves, compared to us being dogs, but even more different, since dogs pretty much evolved from wolves. There may have been some very brief period of time when the two species, Neandertal and Homo Sapiens interacted, but probably not much. And not much interbreeding, if any.

Neandertals had some very specific characteristics, though, that are not found in any living human population. They died out for whatever reason.

What I think your friend might be doing is some good old fashioned racial stereotyping and dehumanization. "Oh, the people in Vietnam (or wherever) are actually Neandertals and not humans, so they are lower forms of life."

There's nothing to indicate that either anthropologically or archeologically, and I don't think any kind of loving Supreme Being would take kindly to that suggestion.

[edit on 9-9-2008 by Nohup]



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 05:02 PM
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I don't think it was any form of racial stereotyping. He's a pretty open minded individual.

I'll just have to ask him for a better explanation I guess. Perhaps there was something I misunderstood...



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 05:25 PM
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OP... What or who was Cain afraid of when he said... "whoever finds me will kill me." Something/someone existed outside the "Garden".



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by KOGDOG
OP... What or who was Cain afraid of when he said... "whoever finds me will kill me." Something/someone existed outside the "Garden".


Yes. What he was afraid of were his own brothers and sisters, or cousins, or other members of his family (Basically the other children of Adam and Eve, and the children they had).

Cain, Abel, and Seth were not the only offspring of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve were the only two around to populate the Earth, and then their offspring, and so on until today.

[edit on 9-9-2008 by the_watcher]



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 12:23 AM
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I wouldn't worry about it. The answer will be in the Bible.

It'll be the answer you want, too.

People who believe in the Bible always get the answers they want from it.



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 02:16 AM
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Wellllll.....

I believe neanderthals are among us!! IT IS FACT!! Look at my boss for example - he exists... proven!! case closed!!



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by the_watcher
 

You might want to consider the possibility that the Nephilim were not the only offspring of Demons. Neanderthals might just have been the "genetic modification" of what was on Earth before "humans"... & I don't mean "modified" by God.

"Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by KOGDOG
reply to post by the_watcher
 

You might want to consider the possibility that the Nephilim were not the only offspring of Demons.


I do not believe in the Nephilim. I cannot find a single reference to them in the King James or NIV bibles, but if I have missed them please let me know.

I will not accept creations of other religions or of non-canonical texts on the basis that if you begin to indoctrinate impurities into your religion you end up with a diluted mess and you can lose sight of the original text.

I do try keep an open mind though. If the Nephilim are mentioned in either the King James or NIV bibles then I will have to consider them as a reality.

[edit on 10-9-2008 by the_watcher]



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 10:41 PM
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Have you seen this
Neanderthals beat mammoths, so why not us?
More scientists wondering how advanced, human-like being became extinct
www.msnbc.msn.com...



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 10:46 PM
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There have been quite a few changes in what scientists and archaeologists believe regarding interaction between Neanderthals and Cro Magnon man.

The following link is typical of the research that has led to a revised view of their interaction:

Research findings counter the idea proposed by some scientists that Cro-Magnon, who were physically similar to modern man, supplanted Neanderthals because they were more skilled hunters as a result of some evolutionary physical or mental advantage.


The new study suggests Cro-Magnon were not superior in getting food from the landscape. Archeoligists could detect no difference in diet, the animals they were hunting and the way they were hunting across this period of time, aside from those caused by climate change.

The takeover by Cro-Magnon does not seem to be related to hunting capability. There is no significant difference in large mammal use from Neanderthals to Cro-Magnon in this part of the world. The idea that Neanderthals were big, dumb brutes is hard for some people to drop. Cro-Magnon created the first cave art, but late Neanderthals made body ornaments, so the depth of cognitive difference between the two just is not clear.

Bears, Caves, and Cro-magnon
The study also resurrects a nearly 50-year-old theory first proposed by Finnish paleontologist Björn Kurtén that modern humans played a role in the extinction of giant cave bears in Europe. Cro-Magnon may have been the original "apartment hunters" and displaced the bears by competing with them for the same caves the animals used for winter den sites.


The cave has a rich, dated archaeological sequence that extends from about 65,000 to about 12,000 years ago, spanning the time when Neanderthals flourished and died off and when Cro-Magnon moved into the region. Neanderthals disappeared from southwestern France around 35,000 years ago, although they survived longer in southern Spain and central Europe.
The researchers were most interested in the transition from the Middle to Upper Paleolithic, or Middle to Late Stone Age.


Neanderthals occupied Grotte XVI as far back as 65,000 years ago, perhaps longer. Between 40,000 and 35,000 years ago, people began making stone tools in France, including at Grotte XVI, that were more like those later fashioned by Cro-Magnon. However, human remains found with these tools at several sites, were Neanderthal, not Cro-Magnon. Similar tools but no human remains from this time period were found in Grotte XVI and people assumed to be Cro-Magnon did not occupy the cave until about 30,000 years ago.

The researchers examined more than 7,200 bones and teeth from large hoofed mammals that had been recovered from the cave. The animals – ungulates such as reindeer, red deer, roe deer, horses and chamois were the most common prey – were the mainstay of humans in this part of the world, according to Grayson.

He and Delpech found a remarkable dietary similarity over time. Throughout the 50,000-year record, each bone and tooth assemblage, regardless of the time period or the size of the sample involved, contained eight or nine species of ungulates, indicating that Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon both hunted a wide variety of game.

The only difference the researchers found was in the relative abundance of species, particularly reindeer, uncovered at the various levels in Grotte XVI. At the oldest dated level in the cave, reindeer remains accounted for 26 percent of the total. Red deer were the most common prey at this time, accounting for nearly 34 percent of the bones and teeth. However, as summer temperatures began to drop in Southwestern France, the reindeer numbers increased and became the prey of choice. By around 30,000 years ago, when Cro-Magnon moved into the region, reindeer accounted for 52 percent of the bones and teeth. And by around 12,500 years ago, during the last ice age, reindeer remains accounted for 94 percent of bones and teeth found in Grotte XVI.




The Neanderthals were far from savages. They buried their dead with respect, adorning the grave with flowers and personal items.

One theory is that rather than being wiped out, the Neanderthals interbred with Cro Magnons, resulting in what we are today.



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by the_watcher
I was talking with someone in my church who is very well taught, and could argue an evolutionist into considering Creationism without a single hitch... but does not believe in evolution.



Originally posted by the_watcherHe's a pretty open minded individual.


ummm...it doesn't seem like he is that open-minded, more like totally indoctrinated and not willing to accept the facts....

however, as you asked for the views of your fellow creationists I will finish here because I most certainly am not one of THOSE!



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 11:20 PM
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I do not believe in evolution because it is unscientific, and not because I am close minded.

I am very open minded.



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 11:30 PM
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I think maybe animals and plants could have evolved (Maybe)I dont really know much about it .
But not people ..they just adapted ..



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone
I think maybe animals and plants could have evolved (Maybe)I dont really know much about it .
But not people ..they just adapted ..


You're very much on the right track!

Plants, animals, humans, and anything else that may be living, have the ability to adapt to their environment. However, this adaptation is limited. A bird may develop a longer beak to reach deeper into crevasses to retrieve bugs/food, and another bird may instead adapt another trait that better suits it's needs.

This adaptation can only go so far because it is impossible to adapt to an environment that simply cannot sustain that particular animal. For example a fish cannot adapt lungs and fins suited for land travel. A fish is designed to live in the water. It does not have the genetic information required to adapt to life outside of water. If it even attempts it the fish will die.

[edit on 10-9-2008 by the_watcher]



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 07:58 AM
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reply to post by the_watcher
 


Hahahahaha!

Aaaahahahahahahahhahaaaahahahahhahahaa!

Seriously, please PLEASE get even a basic understanding of evolution. You are making massive assumptions no evidence ever found supports. You are clearly arguing from some preconceived outcome you desperately want to be true. There is boundless scientific evidence for evolution - just read this link and get back to us.

You don't believe in evolution because you don't want to, not because it's unscientific. Telling that to yourself, and others, doesn't make it true.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by Simplynoone
 


Luckily what you think has no bearing on the world, as that's not how evolution works. Your ignorance is showing.



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 08:08 AM
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reply to post by the_watcher
 



...with that out of the way I have a question for fellow Creationists


I'd be interested in answering your question, OP, however don't wish to ignore your wishes..... your statement above suggests to me that you only wish "fellow Creationists" to answer, or perhaps only want answers that are consistent with Creationist dogma. I am not a Creationist. If I have misconstrued your intent, then please say so. I'll check back later.

All best

[edit on 11-9-2008 by argentus]



posted on Sep, 11 2008 @ 08:11 AM
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Yes they did live together for a short time.
If I am not misstaken,there was alot of conflict between the two races in modern day italy,spain and france.
I think you can guess who won...

Spike



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