Palin's Church Promotes Gay Conversion

Originally posted by the_watcher
I, for one, must applaud the desire of the church to show people the error of their ways. Homosexuality is a sin, and needs to stop.

I can't even respond to you without getting bannend. People who are bigots and stand behind some ancient text that has been translated thousands of times disgust me.

[edit on 9-9-2008 by Cowgirlstraitup7]

[edit on 9-9-2008 by Cowgirlstraitup7]

reply to post by Cowgirlstraitup7


cowgirl

I have been watching your posts and I caannot believe that you want others to love and accept but you yourself set the mode of hate and intolerance. Your anger will only entice and spirit angry responses. If you want people to be what you are preaching, love and acceptane than live it!

reply to post by Cowgirlstraitup7


the website has been there for all the world to see. You should have checked it before you ever even started your thread to ensure that everything was on the up and up. Why don't you take a good gander at it. I am begiining to wonder if this thread is really about Palin church and gays or is about Christians in general.

Now you say people typed this up. It is part of your research to ensure the credibility of a post.

There is supposed to be religious freedom in this country. From the sound of many of the posters, you wouldn't know it.

Let's look at the facts:

The OP did not state that the alleged church members were in any way impinging upon the rights of gays.

The last time I checked our constitution, a person of faith is still allowed to practice their faith, as long as they don't trample the rights of others. I see no evidence that happened.

There are many very explicit references in both the Old and New Testament regarding the sinful behavior of gays:

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."


1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

Now no one is saying that non-believers have to accept the Bible. However, for those that do, Palin's church is just exercising their freedom of religion.

It's stupid because sexuality can not be converted.

Either you're gay or you're not. It's not a choice.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


ProfEmeritus

before others rip you and I agree with your post I want to add that there is no one that is free of these condemnations for all have sinned. There is no one I repeat no one who has not sinned. So when Christians gather they are a group who have been forgiven of their sins by the shed blood of Jesus. And when we pray we pray for others to recieve this same gift. And they are adulterers, murderers, liars, thieves, slanderers and homosexuals to mention a few. But all have the freedom to say no to God's gift.

Thanks for your post ProfEmeritus

reply to post by Nivek Serca


Thank you for your wisdom. I agree wholeheartedly that humans are frail and do sin. Recognizing it, and asking for forgiveness is what we Christians believe in. In our church, we pray for many things, including the environment, the end to war, poverty and forgiveness. Furthermore, we believe that we should detest the sin, and love the sinner. The fact that people pray for someone is not to be taken as a condemnation, but rather our sign of concern and love.

No, I stand by what I said, the_watcher spouting things that to me scream bigotry. There is a differance between tolerance and bigotry. Bigots are not tolerant of anyone!

Most Christians are good people. But people who want to pray away something that they deem is wrong makes them bigots as well. Don't try to put words in my mouth, or claim I am not being tolerant.

Prayer seems more like a cop out against acting, by placing the wanted action in the hands of 'god'...I love how homosexuals have been lumped into the same pail as murderers, thieves, etc...
However, I think this will be the last I comment in this thread as the bigotry disguised as religious freedom makes me sick.

Makes me glad to be a non-believer.

reply to post by ChChKiwi


liars and two faced lumped in with murderers as well. I mean liars with murderers. And adultery a man having sex with a woman who is not his wife. These were the things God has warned us not to do, but robots we are not.
But really it comes down to our hearts. Its really I will do what I want and no one can tell me I can't. "My will be done" That is our problem we all are self centred.
Alister Crowley stated
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
that is the modern credo of our day!

reply to post by Cowgirlstraitup7

From:
www.merriam-webster.com...

bigot -one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

Please explain what part of what most Christians believe indicates ANY hatred towards gays. As I said, praying for someone is a sign of love, not hatred. As I stated, hate the sin, love the sinner. You may not believe homosexuality is a sin, but many Christians do. That does not make us haters. Furthermore, we freely acknowledge that in our minds, we are sinners and pray to God for forgiveness. The only hatred I see on this thread is not coming from Christians. We also believe it is a sin to hate.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


By your own definition you just proved my point. Thanks

reply to post by Cowgirlstraitup7

By your own definition you just proved my point. Thanks

Go ahead, delude yourself. I have no problem having a civil discussion with anyone regarding the facts, but I will not discuss this anymore with you, since you fail to comprehend what I have said. I will pray for you that God enlightens you to the wisdom of his words.

It seems that this idea would have zero traction, unless someone asked for prayer and felt they got the answer they were hoping for.

Do you really think this program would have any success without the participants asking for prayer?

No, instead shove 'em in a corner and scream [Sam Kinison voice]"if you don't confess, your going to hell".

That always works. /sarcasm

And since when do people in need seek the help of bigots?

Originally posted by Alxandro
If Palin is driving around with her hunting buddies, looking for gays, loading them into the back of a pickup, taking them to her church and forcing them to be "HEALED", then you make a good point.

But if gays are walking into her church and asking to be "converted" then what's wrong with that?

Isn't that free will and a form of Pro Choice?

Excellent comeback, and puts this thread into perspective. Exposes the OP for her obvious political bias.

Originally posted by wutone
Can anyone tell me what exactly is wrong with one person praying for another?

If christian guy A prays for gay guy B, exactly what wrong is done?

You guys act if prayer was the same as lynching, libel, or character assassination.

For being so tolerant, there sure is a lot of intolerance to someone that is doing nothing but praying.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, though the OP wants to turn this into a Sarah Palin hatefest based on her stand about a controversial subject. The OP managed to attack both Palin and religion in one post and I suppose she ought to be patted on the back by all liberal Atheists.

Fact is, the OP knows that most mainstream religions reject homosexuality as an acceptable way of life and is a sin. This should come as no surprise to anyone. HOWEVER, the OP is obviously NOT religious or she would know that most mainstream religions teach that true believers in Christ are taught to hate the sin, not the sinner.

The church does accept that some people are born homosexual, just as we now know that some people are born with a genetic weakness to alchohol. Yes, it's a matter of biology, don't go down that road or I'll post the links to scientific reports that show the gay man's brain is different than the straight man's.

But we know that NOT ALL people who practice homosexuality are that way because they were born that way - we know that some people are homosexuals because of trauma in their past, their environment growing up or both.

I think those are the people that Palin's church really targets, the ones who practice homosexuality who aren't actually "wired" for it.

Something else - shouldn't Sarah Palin be getting kudos for belonging to a church that advocates prayer and love instead of HATE CRIMES toward homosexuals???

The Three Myths
About Homosexuality
Myth #1
Homosexuality is normal and biologically determined.

The truth...
There is no scientific research indicating a biological or genetic cause for homosexuality. Biological factors may play a role in the predisposition to homosexuality. However, this is true of many other psychological conditions.
Research suggests that social and psychological factors are strongly influential. Examples include problems in early family relationships, sexual seduction, and sense of inadequacy with same-sex peers, with resulting disturbance in gender identity. Society can also influence a sexually questioning youth when it encourages gay self-labeling.


Myth #2
Homosexuals cannot change, and if they try, they will suffer great emotional distress and become suicidal. Therefore, treatment to change homosexuality must be stopped.

The truth...
Psychotherapists around the world who treat homosexuals report that significant numbers of their clients have experienced substantial healing. Change has come through psychological therapy, spirituality, and ex-gay support groups. Whether leading married or committed celibate lives, many report that their homosexual feelings have diminished greatly, and do not trouble them as much as they had in the past.
The keys to change are desire, persistence, and a willingness to investigate the conscious and unconscious conflicts from which the condition originated. Change comes slowly, usually over several years. Clients learn how to meet their needs for same-sex nurturance and affirmation without eroticizing the relationship. As they grow into their heterosexual potential, men and women typically experience a deeper and fuller sense of themselves as male or female.

If some homosexuals do not wish to change, that is their choice, yet it is profoundly sad that gay-rights activists struggle against the right-to-treatment for other homosexuals who yearn for freedom from their attractions.


Myth #3
We must teach our children that homosexuality is as normal and healthy as heterosexuality. Teenagers should be encouraged to celebrate their same-sex attractions.

The truth...
Scientific research supports age-old cultural norms that homosexuality is not a healthy, natural alternative to heterosexuality. Research shows that gay teens are especially vulnerable to substance abuse and early, high-risk sexual behavior. It does far more harm than good to tell a teenager that his or her attractions toward members of the same sex are normal and desirable. Teens in this position need understanding and counseling, not a push in the direction of a potentially deadly lifestyle.
A 1992 study in Pediatrics found that 25.9% of 12-year-olds are uncertain if they are gay or straight. The teen years are critical to the question of self-labeling, so the facts must be presented in our schools in a fair and balanced manner.

www.narth.com...

HIV "Bug Chaser" Memorialized
January 16, 2006 - British editor Mary Wakefield, writing in The Sunday Telegraph (1/15/2006) describes her shock at discovering the underworld of bug chasing among homosexual males. Her investigation into bug chasing was prompted by the funeral of a young man who recently died after deliberately becoming infected with HIV.
Wakefield observed that the young man had invited his HIV-positive boyfriend to move into his apartment with him. Though he was aware of the dangers of HIV, he soon developed the disease and brain cancer. His HIV-positive friend had also infected a previous partner and that man had died not long ago.

Wakefield was puzzled over the decision of this young man to risk becoming HIV infected and recalled reading an article in Rolling Stone about bug chasers--individuals who deliberately seek to become infected with HIV.

"I remembered being skeptical at the time--it seemed too creepy. After tens of millions have died of Aids worldwide, after billions spent on medication, how could anyone seek it out?"

Her research led her to a gay underground on the Internet that described the life of bug chasers. She observed, "... there was a darker side, the romanticizing of Aids itself. Google led me underground, to gay clubbers with 'HIV neg' tattooed on their biceps as an invitation for others to infect them, to online chats about HIV-spreading sex parties, talk of 'conceiving' the virus like a pregnancy and the intense intimacy of infecting a partner. 'It offers a kind of permanent partnership,' said a journalist for a gay magazine, 'a connection outside time.'"

Originally posted by Discotech
No amount of prayer is going to change someone's sexuality

The very fact she supports this just highlights her ignorance on the subject and is another reason why she is a poor choice

You are very wrong with your comments. I have heard testimony after testimony of people that were gay that have been healed.People aren't born gay. Its a choice !!! Just like a person isn't born a murder !!! They make a choice to kill someone !!