Palin's Church Promotes Gay Conversion

reply to post by Quazga

Actually, I find that dopamine or any other neurotransmitter levels raised to the point where they affect one's thinking, behavior, and perception without producing a functional result are dysfunctional and counterproductive. I think that the most damage being done to society today is from the near-constant dopamine producing behavior that we have in society(sex, drugs, television, music, computer games, social interaction just for fun). It may not appear as though it is doing harm but I do believe that the collection of these behaviors have caused society to become a lazy, unfocused, and degenerate shell of what it once was all because of many people's individual choices becoming a culture of "do what you want" and pleasure seeking advertised on television, in music, and in high schools and colleges everywhere.

We've become a nation of chemical thinkers, trained from birth to seek chemical stimulation through elevated levels of our neurotransmitters. I simply chose to become "boring" and attempt to remain clearheaded as much as possible.

reply to post by Dronetek


Why not accept gay people as they are? It's not their choice to be gay. It's how they were born. You can't "Pray away the gay", it's genetic. It's just like "Dear god, please pray that I can have red hair instead of brown".. Doesn't fly.
And in regards to your comment:

but we're also supposed to be frightened by these evil religious people like Palin. You cant have it both way folks.

Indeed, and that should go for the repubs as well..... With you guys doing what? Accusing Obama of being a "scary evil Muslim". You can't have it both ways folks!

On one hand you guys declare pretty much that Obama is guilty by association (no longer associated with wright, so I guess he's not guilty anymore). On the other hand, we have Palin on the Pulpit.. BIG difference.

[edit on 9/9/2008 by justme2]

reply to post by Quazga


I'm not Christian or religious in any way(the closest thing to a spiritual experience has been some sporadic psychic activity and alien abduction experiences). I cannot relate either to the Christian morality and Christian sense of soul that you speak of or to your own beliefs in reaction to Christianity.

Originally posted by Epinephrine
reply to post by Quazga

 

Actually, I find that dopamine or any other neurotransmitter levels raised to the point where they affect one's thinking, behavior, and perception without producing a functional result are dysfunctional and counterproductive.

First I would ask you define Functional. That all depends on what one's belief is. Are you also maligning the mentally retarded with this statement?

Second.. counter-productive to what? Who has given you the idea of what "SHOULD BE"?

I have found sooo much bliss by simply removing the ideas of "SHOULD".

Now you know what else left with those ideas of SHOULD? Addictions and the constant seeking of a high. I didn't realize how much the stigma of SHOULD actually caused the inverse behavior in society. It's funny. The more you rant and rave about what SHOULD be, the more people do the opposite. It's almost as if you should just be quiet about what you really want, and exhort people to do the opposite. Almost...

I think that the most damage being done to society today is from the near-constant dopamine producing behavior that we have in society(sex, drugs, television, music, computer games, social interaction just for fun).

Damage to what? I expect all of this makes people more likely to have sex and babies. That's all life really wants of us.

It may not appear as though it is doing harm but I do believe that the collection of these behaviors have caused society to become a lazy, unfocused, and degenerate shell of what it once was

Well, I think you should read a bit on Diogenes, a contemporary of Plato. He praised all of these attributes which you (and plato) demonized.

You have to keep in mind that society moves on a pendulum. And it is only by visiting the extremes that it has any momentum towards the other. So if you realy want MASSIVE productivity, it HAS to be prefaced with MASSIVE laziness. If all you are seeking is balance, then don't resist, and don't exert pressure.

all because of many people's individual choices becoming a culture of "do what you want" and pleasure seeking advertised on television, in music, and in high schools and colleges everywhere.

See this is the big illusion in society. How many people actually do what they want? Not many I find. Sure they grab a candy bar or a quick screw at a party, but that is because they ARE NOT DOING WHAT THEY WANT. You see the desire to seek the temporary high comes from a desire to fill the void left by not doing what you want.

They only way out of this is to do what you want as much as possible, figure out which of those behaviors fulfill you the most, and continue those while dropping those behaviors that don't fulfill you. But it starts with doing what you want.

Believe me, the only way to determine if someone is truly doing what they want is to ask.. "Are they happy? Or are they constantly looking for something better?".

The person who is seeking the constant FIX, is not really doing anything near what they want.

To get a better understanding on this I recommend reading "Diary of A Drug Fiend."

We've become a nation of chemical thinkers, trained from birth to seek chemical stimulation through elevated levels of our neurotransmitters. I simply chose to become "boring" and attempt to remain clearheaded as much as possible.

My friend, this is what the Human is. It is a chemical machine. The trick is to come to this conlcusion without being duped by the chemicals of "meaninglessness".

The trick is change. Constant Sobriety (which can't really be defined) is the same as Constant intoxication. Both minds are duped by their constant experience, and one feels self-righteous while the other feels self-destructive. Meanwhile, there isn't a smidge of difference because they are still both slaves to the objective realm.

I wonder how many people were praying to all kinds of Gods to save their ass on 9/11.

I wonder how many people were praying for God to save their ass during Katrina.

I wonder how many athletes pray for a win.

People have the right to pray anyway they see fit or the right not to pray if they so desire.

If you don't believe in prayer, then why hassles yourself over the way others pray or what they pray for. You don't think their prayers going to work any way.

reply to post by Quazga


Isn't the massive and cyclic instability within society that you reference a sign that the "chemical machines" are not working functionally and are themselves unstable? Maybe it's the failings of humanity to achieve the level of insight required to achieve reliable mental stability that human civilization has been so historically unstable and prone to emotional sways to and fro.

Not really. If you study Native American History you will find that this is just what happens. The Cherokee became very sedentary just prior to European incursion. It's a function of the ease of survival.

The "failings of humanity" you reference just don't appear to me as being real. That's because a human has nothing more as a goal than being a human. They are pressured by the genes, to procreate, and so that's probably the only thing you can ascribe as an actual goal to a human. But anything more than that is a vision concocted to back fill the feelings of inadequacy generated by our own finite existence.


Ultimately, humanity is nothing more than an evolutionary abberation. As fun as it is, we shouldn't be so self-centrist as to suppose that we could succeed or fail at anything.

reply to post by jam321

I wonder how many people were praying to all kinds of Gods to save their ass on 9/11.

I wonder how many people were praying for God to save their ass during Katrina.

I wonder how many athletes pray for a win.

People have the right to pray anyway they see fit or the right not to pray if they so desire.

If you don't believe in prayer, then why hassles yourself over the way others pray or what they pray for. You don't think their prayers going to work any way.

Ummmmm??? What?

I still see no explanation of how begging an imaginary friend will make all that gay go away. I just don't get it I guess....

reply to post by Quazga


Self-replication is only one of the many aspects of life, which I believe you to be overemphasizing to the exclusion of all other aspects of life and human life in particular.

However, I think that this goes a bit in excess of the topic at hand, which is homosexual conversion(which is a possibility, though religious methods are certainly not the most effective) and Mrs. Palin. I stand by what I said in that the relapses common in homosexuals who attempt to change their sexual orientation are chemically similar or identical to the cravings and excuses that drug addicts experience when they try to quit a drug.

Please remember people that our servers are too weak to handle quotes of anything more than 1 line... so please don't even quote!!!!


And I stand by the fact that yes.. the attempt to stop anything that is pleasurable will be met with resistance in the human body, regardless of qualification.

When I stop running, which brings me pleasure.. I have issues with it.

When I stop drinking water, which brings me pleasure.. I have issues with it.

Anything that I stop, which currently brings me pleasure, will be met with resistance by the body.

The attempt to associate Homosexuality with addiction is nothing more than demonizing a specific behavior.

[edit on 9-9-2008 by Quazga]

reply to post by Grafilthy


I guess it boils down as to whether you believe in God or not.

If you believe in God, you believe that God has the power to create miracles.

If you don't believe you feel like the ones praying are just wasting their time.

But just like you wouldn't like someone to criticize you for not praying, you shouldn't criticize others for doing so.

Click here for more information.




Christians who believe gays should be changed are bigots. Plain and simple.


[edit on 9-9-2008 by Quazga]

Originally posted by Quazga
And I stand by the fact that yes.. the attempt to stop anything that is pleasurable will be met with resistance in the human body, regardless of qualification.

If that's what you got from my posts, then you have grossly misinterpreted me. Unfortunately, I have had the ongoing impression that you were never arguing with what I said but rather what you were reading into my posts and your own wild ideas which you related to them.

You can experience pleasure and stimulation without chemical highs, even from neurotransmitters. I have never advocated a life without pleasure or a life where one does not maintain their health(as you seem to suggest in your examples). It is a shame that you wish to disagree with me based not purely on my own words but on the wild imagination and fantasies that you can invent in your mind and attach to my posts as though they were my ideas and words and not your own.

The only thing I disagree with you on is that I don't believe that humanity can succeed or fail at anything, either individually or collectively.

For a better understanding of this, I recommend you take a look at the Mark Twain Essay What is Man?

[edit on 9-9-2008 by Quazga]

[edit on 9-9-2008 by Quazga]

reply to post by Quazga


It isn't about believing in the miracle, it is believing in God and his power to answer a prayer.

Nobody says that all gays will turn straight via prayer. Just like everybody who is seriously ill are not healed by prayer. We leave it in God's hands and his will.

That's why we say Thy will be done on earth as it is done in heaven.

Do you believe that it is a good thing to pray that masses of people change something about themselves which has no impact on the people praying?

[edit on 9-9-2008 by Quazga]

Originally posted by alienesque

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
I don't understand why gays, who are supposed to be the epitomy of tolerance, are so intolerant when it comes to Christianity.

you could have written this..:

I don't understand why blacks, who are supposed to be the epitomy of tolerance, are so intolerant when it comes to racism.

understand now..?

Wow!!!! That is awesome! Thank you so much for saying what I knew to be true but could not put into words. I am so sick of the religious right comparing me to child molesters and rapists....and now alcoholics?

Originally posted by Bombeni

Originally posted by Uniceft17
They can pray untill there faces turn red for all I care. Just know that no one is going to go from gay to straight, they are still gay, just supressing their gay thoughts and not acting on it, which is stupid, their should be nothing wrong with love..

People should be who they are, not who everyone else wants them to be.

[edit on 9/8/2008 by Uniceft17]

Geez don't tell that to child molesters, man/boy proponents and rapists ----- they're standing in line to get their stamp of approval, they figure they're next in line.

It is fine if it is 2 consensual adults, you can't compare being a rapist and a child molester to this.

Congrats on showing everyone on ATS how ignorant you can be.

Wow, this fourth page really went off topic, that's okay it was in interesting read, almost deserving of it's own thread.

I want to address the "Palin not as bad as Hitler" comment. People are replying about it, my name is on that reply but I hope you realize it wasn't me that said it, the person who said it was replying to me. Okay hope I didn't confuse anyone. I just don't want my name associated with that statement.

For the record, that statement was sick and gives me one more reason to NOT vote for McCain/Palin.

I agree with a lot of posters here, what this church is saying is that there is something wrong with being gay, therfor we must pray it away. That's just not the case and to me it screams bigotry.

reply to post by Quazga

Do you believe that it is a good thing to pray that masses of people change something about themselves which has no impact on the people praying?

I think your confusing about praying for gays and hating gays. If one of my children turned out gay, I would still love them with all my heart but I will also pray for them.

For the most part I don't know too many people who pray for masses to change their ways. Most of the time we pray for love ones and friends. And these love ones and friends do impact our lives in many ways. Unless your speaking about pastors and preachers who speak to the masses.

But once again, just cause we pray for them to change their ways doesn't mean we don't love them. I am sure you will find gay bashers among those that pray but you will find the same people in the ones who don't pray as well.

What would be better, to pray for that person, or to humiliate them over their sexuality in an effort to force them to change? I say pray. My prayer is between me and my God.