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U.S. Waves Goodbye to Prosperity and Democracy

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posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 02:34 AM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


I hear ya.. Reminds me of the savings and loan fiasco that unravelled in the early nineties. What we need is an in-depth investigation into the Fannie May/Freddy Mac situation to find out WHO gained and profited off of this. That's the only way people are going to be held accountable.

Neither party in the election seems to be FOR government bailouts like this. But if both parties were so one-sided on the issue then how did it happen? I think it happened for many reasons.. But it was due in large part to negligence. At least that's how I see it. A handful of people in Washington have been warning Ben Bernanke and others about this for months but nothing was done. And look what happened. The economic situation in the U.S. has been snowballing for years. Everything is coming to a head all at once.. And that makes this presidential election that much more critical.

Do we really want a republican president in office for another 4-8 years who has wavered on all the important issues whenever he feels the itch to do so? Our country and our childrens' futures are at stake here. When people buy a mortgage these days, it's all or nothing, especially with the energy situation and the price of everything else. And when you are in the situation alot of these families are in right now, how can you have ANY faith and ANY hope in a Republican presidency who has literally done nothing but spend taxpayer dollars to bail-out private investment banks while your family suffers and a handful of people profit from that suffering?

It almost seems like Bush has completely dropped the reigns on this country except when it comes to writing blank checks to private investment banks and contractors. Why have these people ignored all the concerned politicians in Washington who have been talking about our antiquated, broken, illegal economic system for years?

This is going to get alot worse for us before it gets better.. (The overall situation I mean). And I think most intelligent people realize that. I see this entire economic situation as a snowball effect caused by governmental negligence.. And that is yet another reason why another Republican president like Bush is probably the worst thing we need right now. We need sweeping change. Radical change in Washington if we are going to become the respectable superpower we used to be in the international community. And I don't mean just through foreign relations and free trade. I mean by letting America come first..

The politicians are viewing this situation completely backwards. Helping/bailing out private industry is not going to fix the actual causes of our economic woes. People like Ron Paul have been screaming about this for years! Why have all the politicians addressing these issues been ignored?

-ChriS




posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 04:10 AM
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Question:

How far can the gov't openly go into debt (over 11 trillion), print more
money, and have foreign money propping it up before the whole mess falls? I realize it's on the "cusp" now, but where is the tipping point?
Is it when the credit industry fails or as Gerald Celente has stated, the next shoe is commerical real estate ?
Can the gov't just declare wer'e going to cover 10 trillion, and no one will bat an eye?

As stated in other threads, 90% of the US pop. have no clue as to the nature of this coruption and even if Paulson came on primetime for an
hour and told you how bad your getting screwed, most wouldn't watch or
care.

So until that changes, it's business as usual............02c


[edit on 9-9-2008 by Pinktip]

[edit on 9-9-2008 by Pinktip]

[edit on 9-9-2008 by Pinktip]



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 05:05 AM
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Originally posted by johnsky
Sounds to me like the intention all along was to let the economy slide, so that a federal buyout of loan and mortgage centers could be justified.

Makes sense to me, but I could be missing something.

Taxpayers give the government their taxes to keep the government owned companies running...
and the interest on the mortgages and loans go back to the government again.

One heck of a way to keep control over your populace, when your government is the one you're paying for your house and loans.

Knew it and this reply is it. Now what am I talking about?

The current intervention in the banking system by governments on both sides of the Atlantic was a necessity due to the failed (ie obscenely greedy) laissez-faire capitalism. This proves that governments have to apply brakes and controls. This idea is an anathema to those on the right who want unfettered capitalism. So what excuse do they come up with : "It's all a government conspiracy to control the population".........sorry folks but that's just a pathetic excuse. Capitalism has failed miserably and a hairs breadth away from causing misery and poverty on a huge scale.

Answer this, how many of those "bankers" and privaty equity owners are currently heading towards poverty and/or bankrupcy? It's OK I'll save you the job of trying to find out ITS A BIG FAT ZERO!



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 05:30 AM
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Originally posted by Pinktip
Question:
How far can the gov't openly go into debt (over 11 trillion), print more
money, and have foreign money propping it up before the whole mess falls?


As long as they are able/willing to make ( American) assets available that can be bought they can continue to go in debt. As the following article outlines that is basically what the housing bubble was all about when the Us government/financial institutions ( which may be used interchangeably these days) created the housing bubble trough the creation of a asset market that did not in fact exist. They are trying to maintain some semblance of strategic assets while selling off public one's.

www.counterpunch.org...


I realize it's on the "cusp" now, but where is the tipping point?
Is it when the credit industry fails or as Gerald Celente has stated, the next shoe is commerical real estate ?


The credit industry wont fail as modern western economies are credit based with basically all 'growth' ( in terms of GDP) coming from credit creation. The credit industry wont fail because that is the only thing that allows the US national security state to fund it's imperial wars.


Can the gov't just declare where going to cover 10 trillion, and no one will bat an eye?


Yes and they can cover that quite easily provided they eventually do the financial and military reforms they keep mentioning. It's not a complete lie and the American economy can certainly sustain a larger federal debt. In fact the US economy is already sustaining a state/federal and public debt approaching 80 trillion dollars so a few more wont change a thing.


As stated in other threads, 90% of the US pop. have no clue as to the nature of this coruption and even if Paulson came on primetime


Americans are aware that the government is corrupt ( but those who still vote thing it's the other side ,democrats/republicans, with theirs trying to fix it ) and that industry is eating them alive but they don't really know how to go about fixing it with all the misdirection and lies directed at them trough the corporate owned MSM. There is a very real reason why Americans are so angry and would lash out at foreign terrorist for lack of a means to get to their own corporate economic/corporate terrorist.


for an
hour and told you how bad your getting screwed, most wouldn't watch or
care.

So until that changes, it's business as usual............02c


You must be American then.
Americans DO care but like citizens in other countries they are normally far too busy ( And Americans in fact work longer hours on average than any other in the industrialized west including, Taiwan,Korea and Japan) too find the time to figure out exactly what is going on never mind having the time to actually take significant action.

You shouldn't be so negative about your fellow citizens!

Stellar



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 07:30 AM
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Thanks for the info Stellar!



You shouldn't be so negative about your fellow citizens!
 



Not Negative, just reality......All my co-workers are in the top 15% bracket, and 9 out 10 have no clue about F&F bailout.......



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 07:45 AM
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Originally posted by SuperSecretSquirrel

An example must be made. Bail them out, break them up, and then tell them they are on their own. NO MORE BAILOUTS! PERIOD.


But that is not the way it works, see, already in the BBC the news were talking about the countries in the middle east I imagine, the emirates, Saudi Arabia already eying with greedy eyes into buying the two companies from the US government, incredible that we get to bail out with our tax payer money so somebody else get to make profits while we are stuck with the tag.

This all deceiving and if you understand how this play against us the American consumer you would be as outraged as most of us are.



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 08:26 AM
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But with "I.O.U.S.A." America's debt will haunt you for years. It already totals about $150,000 for every single household. Worse yet, it's metastasizing $1.9 billion each and every day on the National Debt Clock. So who will go see the film? Few:
Liberals. Maybe a small contingent of lefties. But they already know the story about America's lethal addiction to living on borrowed money.
Conservatives. No way. They actually love big deficits and big federal debt. That money comes out of taxpayers' wallets, pays for their wars and all the profitable deals with China and oil producers that make neocons personally rich.
Main Street. The other 95% of Americans are too focused on their own personal problems; gas, food, rent, foreclosures, inflation, teen pregnancies, credit-card fees, outsourced jobs, and so much more. They'll go to the new Bond film, or stay home and watch the new fall shows, like "Terminator," "Prison Break" and "Fringe."

 


www.marketwatch.com...[1E95D857-7CB8-46AD-B26C-D3732D93FD06]&siteid=yahoomy



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 02:29 PM
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So the issue is that the jobs aren't going to be here for our children to pay these debts off. Right now, middle income jobs are leaving our country to the point that the BLS is reporting that mid way through the next decade over half the jobs will be low wadge jobs.

"We've" borrowed too much from our children to build too big of homes that wont' be affordable to purchase or maintain by the majority of people who are currently home owners.

This is a long term side effect of how the markets are an abstracted view of the resources available on the planet. The environment, which provides those resources are shrinking while the markets, eg the economy are expanding. The markets/economy is a subsystem of the environment/resources and we originally started tipping the scale decades ago when we started stealing resources and exploiting slave labor, which allowed us to over consume the environment.

Capitalism requires povertizing people and stealing resources in order to succeed [which leads to wars and covert activities for/from both things]. What we're seeing is the end of new markets/[countries] to do these activities through "free trade" and we're starting to feel the impact of that and our own deportation of jobs through globalization.

The "masterminds" that take advantage of these situations will continue to grow wealth, but even professional services which is America's last vestage of well paying jobs is under the same "seige" as the rest of the industries like agriculture, help desk, manufacturing, etc have been under by the capitalist plunderers. Within ~10 years, the professional services 'conversion' will be complete and that's somewhat confirmed by the BLS reports for the next decade.

We all have to look at our lifestyles, they are way too expensive in a global economy which we're joining as a member instead of just the biggest ruling party. The first place to look is housing/transportation...

-G.Kane



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 02:32 PM
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So the issue to me is that the jobs aren't going to be here for our children to pay these debts off. Right now, middle income jobs are leaving our country to the point that the BLS is reporting that mid way through the next decade over half the jobs will be low wadge jobs.

"We've" borrowed too much from our children to build too big of homes that wont' be affordable to purchase or maintain by the majority of people who are currently home owners.

This is a long term side effect of how the markets are an abstracted view of the resources available on the planet. The environment, which provides those resources are shrinking while the markets, eg the economy are expanding. The markets/economy is a subsystem of the environment/resources and we originally started tipping the scale decades ago when we started stealing resources and exploiting slave labor, which allowed us to over consume the environment.

Capitalism requires povertizing people and stealing resources in order to succeed [which leads to wars and covert activities for/from both things]. What we're seeing is the end of new markets/[countries] to do these activities through "free trade" and we're starting to feel the impact of that and our own deportation of jobs through globalization.

The "masterminds" that take advantage of these situations will continue to grow wealth, but even professional services which is America's last vestage of well paying jobs is under the same "seige" as the rest of the industries like agriculture, help desk, manufacturing, etc have been under by the capitalist plunderers. Within ~10 years, the professional services 'conversion' will be well on it's way and that's somewhat confirmed by the BLS reports for the next decade.

We all have to look at our lifestyles, they are way too expensive in a global economy which we're joining as a member instead of just the biggest ruling party. The first place to look is housing/transportation...

-Gregory Kane

[edit on 10-9-2008 by Gregory Kane]



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
But that is not the way it works, see, already in the BBC the news were talking about the countries in the middle east I imagine, the emirates, Saudi Arabia already eying with greedy eyes into buying the two companies from the US government, incredible that we get to bail out with our tax payer money so somebody else get to make profits while we are stuck with the tag.

This all deceiving and if you understand how this play against us the American consumer you would be as outraged as most of us are.


Yeah, you're right, and in a funny way, we all sold our country and our kid's future to buy cars, electronics and gas. And then we're going to stick them with a ruined environment and a industrialized poisonous food source.

What's maybe even more 'funny' is that all that stuff we bought was stolen from the people who gave up their resources and energy under gun. And so the people who made all the money are actually theives against both the consumer and producer.

I think we should just cancel all the debt under this logic and say we owe a trillion dollars to latin america, asia, etc and just pay that off in the form of support/help... Of course there's less catestrophic ways to repay the people we've stolen from and reform the power structure, but cancelling debt, saying the means of which it was created were illegal, has a lot of poetic justic, at least in my mind



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 02:47 PM
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The fat cat officers/owners/regulators who were actually responsible for the mess should fund the bailout from their personal wealth as was done in the depression by my EX's family. Only after all their wealth is stripped from them should a "bailout" even be considered.

If some idiot breaks in to my house and the dog bites, he sues and wins, Why should this be different. They knowingly stripped people of their money and homes. MAKE THEM PAY not me.



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