possible interpretation of the locusts of revelation.

i was reading the book of joel and was reminded of a neat little insight about the locusts of revelation.

INTRODUCTION

revelation was a book that was usually written in metaphors, so lets examine where the locust are mentioned

rev 9:
[1] And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
[2] And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
[3] And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
[4] And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
[5] And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
[6] And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
[7] And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
[8] And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
[9] And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
[10] And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
[11] And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

lets assume for a moment that like much revelation, this is symbolic of something. lets examine what we know.

1 they are called locusts (or are a metaphor for something locust like)
2 they swarm
3 they look like a hodgepodge (always wanted to use that word) of different things.
4 they have the job of tormenting those who dont have the seal on their foreheads.

1 and 2 are connected so ill address that first.

LOCUSTS

joel also mentions locusts.

chapter 1 of joel begins to talk about a real locust swarm that happened

[2] Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers?
[3] Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation.
[4] That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.

he begins to talk about the plagues that followed. but then he makes an interesting analogy, he links this plague to the lord day.

[15] Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

chapter 2 shows the second part of the analogy

[1] Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
[2] A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
[3] A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
[4] The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
[5] Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
[6] Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
[7] They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
[8] Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
[9] They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
[10] The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
[11] And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

so we see that these ¨locusts¨ are people. we also see that they are sent from god, or working for god.

what type of men are these?

LOCUST´S DESCRIPTION

both revelation and joel describe them as horses

horses were very important in battle. so this could symbolize important, quick on their feet, active, ready.

they have what seem to be crowns on their heads

its interesting to note that the 24 elders have crowns too, as do the 144,000. john was one of this 144,000 because he says in chapter 1

[6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

but the language is specific, ¨on their heads were as it were¨ or ¨seemed¨ to be crowns. so they werent crowns.

people who go to heaven and join this group of king and heirs dont rule while on earth

1 cor 4: [8] You are already filled, you have already become rich, you have become kings without us; and indeed, I wish that you had become kings so that we also might reign with you.

rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.(new american standard)

so they dont receive their crown until after they die and go to heaven, but the have the appearance of royalty.

2 tim 4:[8] Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

they have men´s faces

this one im unsure about, it could be that it symbolizes their humanity.

hair of a woman

these who have a ¨heavenly calling¨ (hebs 3:1) are also sometimes called the bride of christ.

2 cor 11:[2] For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

rev 14:[4] These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

rev 21:[9] And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

why a woman´s hair? because it show submissiveness

1 cor 11
[7] For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
[8] For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
[9] Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
[10] For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
[11] Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
[12] For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of god.
[13] Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
[14] Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
[15] But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

lion´s teeth

this one is referred in both revelation and joel

this could refer to being able to chew spiritual ¨meat¨ in that they can handle the deeper things of the word of god

1 cor 3:[1] And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
[2] I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

breastplates of iron

could be righteousness

eph 6:[13] Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
[14] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

sound like chariots

in that they dont go unnoticed.

tails like scorpions

what they do stings their enemies, ill get into that later

they hurt men for 5 months.

this actually is the life-span of a locust. which means that these kings-to-be sting their enemy their entire life while on earth.

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so these locusts could be people who have a heavenly calling but havent died yet. they´re job is to sting. and to their enemy, they appear to everywhere, they are a nuisance.

THE JOB OF TORMENTING THOSE WITHOUT THE SEAL ON THEIR HEADS

what do these special christians do that appears to torment those who refuse christ?

matt 24:[14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

the only thing worse than a christian, is a christian that preaches. many people time and again say how annoying it is to have to deal with christians that actually preach the gospel.

but here´s the interesting part.

verse 4 says not to hurt the vegetation or the trees.

in daniel, a tree was used to symbolically to describe nebachanezzar´s kingship. dan 4:10-22

instead of going after the nations and prominent ones, it goes after those that dont have the mark

eph 1:[13] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
[14] Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

so its possible, this preaching in particular stings those that profess to be christians, but by their fruitage, their actions and their beliefs, arent.

if a ¨christian¨ doesnt follow christ´s commands, can he truly claim to be saved?

what if he chooses not to follow jesus by twisting the scriptures to a form of belief that is comfortable to him? a preaching from someone who forces him to see the scriptures the way they are would have a sting like effect.

anyway this thought has been lingering around in my head for awhile, figured id post it.

I was meaning to post this earlier, but,.....
I think you are talking about Joel's army.

An interesting concept, Kingdom Now Theology, but, it doesn't bear out in scripture.
The two witnesses will be here for a testimony, with great power, but, to think that we are going to fight, kill and take over the world and hand it to Jesus upon His return is NOT biblical.
The inquisitions were similar in theology.
I think a clue to who these armies work for are explained here;

[11] And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Personally, I don't know what they are, I THINK they may be helicopters with the new Directed energy weapons
that make people feel like their skin is on fire.
I think the chip will facilitate the weapon, so that those without the 'mark' won't be affected and at that point ALL who still don't have the mark, will be TRUE converts trusting in Jesus implicitely.(sp)
IMHO.
Joel's army and others should be diligent that they aren't recruited to unknowingly work for anti-christ!

Originally posted by Clearskies
The two witnesses will be here for a testimony, with great power,

i believe that was a separate vision altogether

but, to think that we are going to fight, kill and take over the world and hand it to Jesus upon His return is NOT biblical.

umm i didnt say that. basically i was saying that this army is those who have the heavenly calling while still on earth. the stinging they do is preaching, not sure where you got fighting from that.

reply to post by miriam0566

john was one of this 144,000 because he says in chapter 1

[6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

There is nothing in the text to make John into one of the "144,000", the Biblical text just doesn't support this theory.

Originally posted by miriam0566
i believe that was a separate vision altogether

Right, I know.

umm i didnt say that. basically i was saying that this army is those who have the heavenly calling while still on earth. the stinging they do is preaching, not sure where you got fighting from that.

I just meant that Joel's army supporters DO believe that.

reply to post by miriam0566

umm i didnt say that. basically i was saying that this army is those who have the heavenly calling while still on earth. the stinging they do is preaching, not sure where you got fighting from that.

Clearskies (as well as you) actually quoted the verse that completely defeats this idea:

Rev. 9:11 And they (the locusts that you call "christians") had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

The Christian's King of kings is Jesus Christ. For a Christian to call an angel (of the bottomless pit) their KING defies Biblical scripture.

This is an erroneous conclusion, Miriam.

Are (real) Christians ever described as having an "angel-king" over them in the Bible?

But I also want to say, again, I (often) appreciate your scholarship you do, thank you.

reply to post by Clearskies

Personally, I don't know what they are,

...and I don't either.

I THINK they may be helicopters with the new...

This would mean there would need to be a LOT of helicopters, wouldn't it?

Rev. 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

It appears (to me) that verse 4 would imply a whole lot of helicopters...around the entire earth?

im actually going to the hospital for alittle bit. i dont want you guys to think im ignoring you lol

i just cant reply at the moment

Originally posted by PreTribGuy

john was one of this 144,000 because he says in chapter 1

[6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

There is nothing in the text to make John into one of the "144,000", the Biblical text just doesn't support this theory.

rev 5:7-10
[7] And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
[8] And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
[9] And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
[10] And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

so the kings and priests are mentioned here as ¨24 elders¨

1 cor 4:[8] Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you.

apostle paul talking to christians who acted like they already received their reward.

heb 3:[1] Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

the apostles as well as the the first century christians understood what they would be doing in heaven. ruling as kings and priests.

however there is evidence that the 144,000 and the 24 elders are the same group.

rev 11:
[1] And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
[2] And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
[3] And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
[4] These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

rev 20:
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

both groups were redeemed from mankind. the reason that these are described as two separate groups has to do with the fact that not everyone is in heaven at the same time. some of these who have a ¨heavenly calling¨ are still on earth. in this respect they sing ¨before¨ the elders.

but there is every reason to believe that they are the same groups. they are redeemed from earth, brought to heaven, rule as kings and priests.

why does this match the locust army?

because the apostles preached. it was their most important commission. there is evidence that all first century christians preached. but unfortunately they were few.

revelation is saying that in the last days they will swarm. we will see preaching done very intensely

Originally posted by PreTribGuy
Clearskies (as well as you) actually quoted the verse that completely defeats this idea:

Rev. 9:11 And they (the locusts that you call "christians") had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

The Christian's King of kings is Jesus Christ. For a Christian to call an angel (of the bottomless pit) their KING defies Biblical scripture.

This is an erroneous conclusion, Miriam.

Are (real) Christians ever described as having an "angel-king" over them in the Bible?

But I also want to say, again, I (often) appreciate your scholarship you do, thank you.

essentially the question is, is jesus and the angel of the abyss the same person?

well, one thing is for sure, the angel is on god´s side and does the will of god. so whatever is in the pit (or abyss) is released at god´s will.

rev 20
[1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

why do i think he is was jesus?

- he is a king.
- his encounter with ¨legion¨ testifies that the demons know what he will do to them.

luke 8:
30 And Jesus asked him, "What is your name?" And he said, "Legion"; for many demons had entered him.
31 They were imploring Him not to command them to go away into the abyss.
32 Now there was a herd of many swine feeding there on the mountain; and the demons implored Him to permit them to enter the swine. And He gave them permission.

why would the demons be scared if jesus was not authorized to send them into the pit? in essence, he had the ¨keys¨