Islam is The Religion of God and the Kingdom of God in the Last Days, page 4

reply to post by queenofangels_17

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lol



despite the fact that muslims try to say the bible is corrupt they use it as evidence????????




[edit on 13-9-2008 by drevill]

reply to post by Zedda Piras

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Hello again, Zedda!

Your questions are not difficult to answer.

Muhammad was real, there is no doubt about that, he's relatively recent in terms of history, and there is quite a bit of contemporary work corroborating his existence.

As to the question of how we are to know that God is true....a book can help, and it's useful to read it, but the ultimate realisation comes from yourself. There's more than enough evidence in all of creation if one is willing to look, but that evidence is probably personal for each person.

About the Quran, now....if you want to take the Muhammad as backing for it, well, before he started preaching Islam, he was known as Al-Ameen (the truthful) because of his honesty. He couldn't read or write, so he must have gotten the information from somewhere, and he didn't really gain any money or power, and suffered a great deal due to his message, so that can't really have been the motivation. The message of the Quran is pure monotheism, and nobody can fault it for that. It claims to be a continuation of the previous scriptures. There are quite a few things mentioned in the Quran (scientific and historical) that Muhammad could not have known. One can take that as they wish.


reply to post by drevill

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Drevill, muslims believe that the Bible in the form it is now has been corrupted, but this does not mean that the original message that Jesus gave was corrupted. So if something is in the Bible that agrees with what is in the Quran, it can be accepted.

[edit on 13-9-2008 by babloyi]

Originally posted by slymattb
Fool and yet you ignore scripture Jesus praying, Jesus calling God his own God. Jesus saying he comes in God's own will. Just because Jesus says I am the Son of God does not mean I am God. The jews made that up in there own head. No where in the Bible does it say Jesus is God.

Dr. Chuck Missler - Trinity (Part 1 of 2)

Listen to this Dr. of Theology and your Qs will be answered.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

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It seems to be actually 3 parts, and I'm not too sure about it anyhow...the guy dismisses a lot of things by just saying "This is not what it means, this is how they talked back then". I'm not really willing to take that as a valid argument. If the Bible says that Jesus is the first born of creation, who is Chuck Missler (as a christian) to say that "No, that is not what it means, it is only a title"?! Because according to Jesus in the Bible, the old prophets were called 'gods' as well. This is a title too!

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by NOTurTypical

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It seems to be actually 3 parts, and I'm not too sure about it anyhow...the guy dismisses a lot of things by just saying "This is not what it means, this is how they talked back then". I'm not really willing to take that as a valid argument. If the Bible says that Jesus is the first born of creation, who is Chuck Missler (as a christian) to say that "No, that is not what it means, it is only a title"?! Because according to Jesus in the Bible, the old prophets were called 'gods' as well. This is a title too!

Dr. Chuck Missler

That is probably the best explanation I know of about the Trinity. I understand it, but I'm not an expert Theologian either.

reply to post by Zedda Piras

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We have free will...and our will should be to follow gods word...

but only he chooses who is WORTHY to recieve TRUE guidance.

anyone who denys gods help becomes a friend of the devil/jinn and they can find no help besides allah.


i think queenofangels is doing a good job with this thread....much respect!


all praise to allah!

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

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"Allah" is a new name for Satan. God gave man His Holy Word, it's not the Koran.

Do you honestly think God would give ANYTHING to a man who lied, who murdered, or who committed pedophilia?

Satan would welcome such a man for sure! Not God Almighty.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

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This is leading in a somewhat troubling direction, but I suppose that could not be helped, considering the claim made in the title. Most who would get a strong reaction from just reading the title would then go on to just post an 'anger dump' reply without reading anything within the thread.

You say a number of things without any knowledge of them, but I left it when you said it before, because I assumed it was the way you had been indoctrinated from birth- ACTION: 'Muhammad'; REACTION: 'Murderer! Paedophile! Liar! Satan! etc'.

Since you persist in posting this viewpoint, it may interest you to know that there is no conclusive proof that Muhammad committed paedophilia. If you are referring to his marriage with Ayesha, the few hadith that specify age were put forward by Ibn Hashim, who was considered to be an unreliable narrator. I'd go into further detail, but it doubt you'd be interested. If you are, ask, or look around this forum- the same point has come up again and again and again. As for calling Muhammad a murderer, that's just as absurd as calling any general or head of state a murderer. As for calling him a liar, just because you don't believe his message, doesn't make him a liar.


My objection to Christianity in it's current form, and the reason it cannot possibly be the religion of God is quite simple, and does not rely on anything that Christian can refute- Namely, the concept of blood for sin. While a broken, lowly, and ungodly human may agree to this concept, God would not. I find it quite barbaric to think that God needs(!) a blood sacrifice in order to forgive man.
Besides, even according to the Bible, no one is responsible for anybody else's sins. Why on earth would God destroy the fundamental justice and mercy of that He created by transferring my sins to someone else? I respect and love Jesus too much to wish any of my sins on him.

I'd mention the trinity as a second point, but even as shown in this thread, christians aren't really in agreement with it. When something, by it's very definition is called 'mysterious' and 'unexplainable', I tend to ignore it. My Lord God is ONE GOD, and I take no other god's before Him. I don't need, and God certainly doesn't need, and Jesus said we don't need; an intermediary.

[edit on 15-9-2008 by babloyi]

reply to post by babloyi

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Don't give me that crap, at least Mohammad was "respectable", meaning he waited until she was after 5 to look at her with wanton eyes. The Ayatollah of Iran says it's permissible to "sodomize an infant" in his book. Islam is the most brutal, woman-hating, religion man has ever known save perhaps the Mayans who would sacrifice people by cutting out their hearts with obsidian knives.

And don't give me this crap that "Islam is the religion of peace", because those who aren't converting with the sword are APOSTATES. Mohammad taught his followers to be liars, to be peaceful until they were in the majority, then to overthrow the governments and convert by the sword: beheading.

He also told them to lie by way of a cease-fire agreement, to agree to one, but to use that time to regather troops and to re-load.

Look up the muslim definition of a "cease-fire"..

It means "re-load".

The Crayon clearly states Mohammad consummated his perverted marriage to her when SHE WAS 9!!! Don't slander a man that speaks the truth, Mohammad was a lying, murdering pedophile, not a prophet of God, but an agent of Satan. Their 12th Imam, the Mahdi is the 3rd most described person in the Holy Bible, he just has different names. Such as "The Assyrian", "The man of sin", or in 1 John: the antichrist.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

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See, this is exactly what I mean. Something comes up in opposition, and instead of looking it up, instead of checking it out, since you believe you are right, everything else must be wrong, facts be damned and all. It is apparent that ALL your information about islam is from 3rd-hand sources.

See, I don't need to resort to such anger and raging emotion to put forward my point of view. No Bible (in it's current form) believing person on the entire planet can deny that the Biblical God is one that demands a blood sacrifice to forgive sin. This really isn't anything better than the Mayan religion that you put down.

The God I believe in so loves the world, that when someone made a mistake, they were forgiven. When they were ignorant, they were forgiven. When they asked for forgiveness (and meant it), they were forgiven. Sometimes, God forgave them anyway, because God is the Most Merciful. God doesn't need the slaughter and torture of an innocent man to forgive. God doesn't need anything.

[edit on 15-9-2008 by babloyi]

[edit on 15-9-2008 by babloyi]

Originally posted by babloyi
If you are referring to his marriage with Ayesha, the few hadith that specify age were put forward by Ibn Hashim, who was considered to be an unreliable narrator.

But it wasn't just Ibn Hashim' there were other hadith...

All the relevant sources (Bukhari, Ibn Hisham, Tabari, Ibn al-Athir, Ibn Sa'd, Ibn Hanbal, etc.) maintain that Aisha was bethroted to Mohammed when she was 6, and the marraige was consummated 3 years later.

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64: Sahih Bukhari [the most venerated and authentic Islamic source]
Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

When she was 6, Muhammad asked Abu Bakr, Aisha's father, for her hand. Abu Bakr thought it was improper, because, as he said "I am your brother"; Muhammad brushed aside Abu Bakr's reservation by saying that it was perfectly lawful for him to marry Aisha [ Ref: SAHIKH BUKHAR I7:18].

So, Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad, and 3 years later, i.e. when Aisha was 9, the marriage was consumed. And Muhammad was 53 then [SAHIH BUKHARI 5:236,7:64,7:65,7:88] .

Aisha was then socially and psychologically still a child as is evidenced by the fact that she was still given to her toys, she was unaware of what was happening around her, and her playmates behave as would the children at present times [Sahih Bukhari 8:151,5:234].

www.homa.org...:mohammad-the-pedophile-&catid=36:islam&Itemid=56

For a 53 year old man to take advantage of a 9 year girl is a very sick act.

Irrespective as to whether he was a paedophile or not, the relationship is not amongst two equals, it is an exploitative relation and it cruelly robs the little girl of her innocence and her youth.

And this from the self declared messenger of God!!

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by NOTurTypical

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See, this is exactly what I mean. Something comes up in opposition, and instead of looking it up, instead of checking it out, since you believe you are right, everything else must be wrong, facts be damned and all. It is apparent that ALL your information about islam is from 3rd-hand sources.

See, I don't need to resort to such anger and raging emotion to put forward my point of view. No Bible (in it's current form) believing person on the entire planet can deny that the Biblical God is one that demands a blood sacrifice to forgive sin. This really isn't anything better than the Mayan religion that you put down.

The God I believe in so loves the world, that when someone made a mistake, they were forgiven. When they were ignorant, they were forgiven. When they asked for forgiveness (and meant it), they were forgiven. Sometimes, God forgave them anyway, because God is the Most Merciful. God doesn't need the slaughter and torture of an innocent man to forgive. God doesn't need anything.

[edit on 15-9-2008 by babloyi]

[edit on 15-9-2008 by babloyi]

I'm not a Jew, I don't practice Judaism, I don't believe an animal needs to be sacrificed for the remission of sins.

Jesus gave His life FREELY for our sins, His blameless blood was shed FREELY. He had Agape love for all men, look up "Agape", it's Greek. And like I said, that is EXACTLY what the Crayon says. It says Ishesha was 9 when her rape, er I mean consummation was completed with Mohammad. That's a fact. Mohammad also teaches his followers to lie, to accept a peace treaty only to rearm and reorganize. That's a fact. The Crayon teaches that a woman is no better than a goat to a man, just a piece of property. That's a fact. Iran's Ayatollah stated in his Biography that it is permissible to sodomize an infant girl. That's a fact. Mohammad taught to convert with the sword. This is a fact.

It's not "3rd hand sources" dude, it's plainly written in the Crayon itself. Now, Muslims who don't do what it says are APOASTATES. Look up the definition of "apostates". In Cristianity there no longer needs to be an animal sacrifice for the remission of sins, the Word became flesh and freely gave His blameless life for the remission of sins for ANYONE to freely accept.

That is what a loving God does for the world. "Allah" is another name Mohammad invented for Satan, "Allah"'s rules, AND NAMES, mirror the names the Bible uses for Satan. Not the NT names for Satan, but the OT names for Satan. The same men Islam calls their "fathers" use these names for Satan.

I challenge you to listen to converts from Islam to Christianity, especially Walid Shoebat, an ex-PLO terrorist. It's not a lie, Islam itself is the lie.

The Crayon instrusts Muslims to "BEAT" their wives. Contrast this to Christianity where Jesus Christ tells us to "LOVE" our wives.:

"Quran 4:34: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Muslims who don't beat their wives are APOSTATES.

[edit on 15-9-2008 by NOTurTypical]

reply to post by NOTurTypical

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Who said anything about an animal? Modern Christianity (not Judaism) demands that a PERSON had to be sacrificed, so that the blood washed away the sins. This is far worse than an animal. Saying that it's already done, and doesn't need to happen again doesn't change the fact that Modern Christianity claims it was needed! That for man to be without sin, about 2000 years ago, a guy had to be beaten, jabbed, pierced and killed so that God would wash it away. According to Modern Christianity, without this guy being beaten, jabbed tortured, pierced and killed, God would not have forgiven humanity. I don't know about you, but I consider that barbaric.

I'm really not seeing the point of this debate with you. If you were knowledgeable about something, it might be interesting, but there seems to be so much you don't really know....
-Like the definition of the word 'apostate'.
-Like the spelling of the name of Muhammad's wife...
-You seem to think that the Ayatollah says something, although he's been dead for almost 20 years, you seem to think that he wrote about sodomizing baby girls in his biography, you seem to think that whatever the Ayatollah wrote has relevance to most muslims.
-You seem to think that Muhammad invented the name 'Allah'
-You seem to think that Islam says a woman is no better than a goat
-You seem to think that Islam says to accept peace, then rearm and attack
-You seem to think that all this nonsense information is 'written in the Crayon'
-You seem to think that Walid Shoebat is not a lie, when he's been proven to be a lie

The very fact that you are intentionally using misspellings, that you are trying to be dramatic, is all to denigrate Islam, and shows how little you care about actually learning what it actually says.

[edit on 15-9-2008 by babloyi]

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