Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

He hasn't lied. As Jamie said, people have claimed that he's a Muslim as some sort of smear tactic. The people who are claiming this are lying.

BH, this is a sincere and simple question that I hope you will answer honestly.

How do you know he hasn't lied?

Originally posted by LLoyd45
So BH, are you saying that isn't Obama in the interview being corrected as to what his religion is?

That is Obama all right.
He is not being "corrected as to what his religion is".

Obama said, "Well, what I’m saying is he hasn’t suggested that I’m a Muslim." But that was cut off of the original video. He corrected himself but the blip in the OP doesn't let us hear that.

Just FYI, I'm not going to tell you what I think you should believe. I put the full video out there so people could see it in context and form their own opinions. I have faith in the intelligence and critical thinking skills of most people here.

There's people that claim the same about Barack Obama

And? That matters as much as the Muslim thing.

It's a video of him saying "His Muslim faith", how is that false information?

That's explained above.

Here we go with that lame out of context BS again.. Can't you come up with something different for a change?

No. Not as long as people take little blips of videos (or quotes) and post them like they mean something. One thing I'm here to do is deny ignorance. Taking a small, out-of-context blip of a video (or quote) and posting it with no context... I'm sorry, it's ignorance. And I'll do my best to deny it.

Mr. Harris makes an excellent point. Thank you!

Originally posted by jamie83
How do you know he hasn't lied?

When someone makes a claim, it is up to them to provide proof of their claim.

The claim has been made that he is a Muslim. He has denied it. I have seen not one shred of evidence to indicate that he is a Muslim. And in fact, evidence abounds that he is a Christian.

So, until I see proof of this claim, I have no reason to believe it. My BEST judgment is that he's not lying OR a Muslim - and it's the burden of those making these claims to produce evidence of their claim. And until they do, I will say that Obama is not lying. Those who have made the claim and not provided evidence... are. Or else they're just so caught up in condemning Obama that they actually believe it themselves.

Either way, I watched the video and made my decision. Good luck making yours.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

That is Obama all right.
He is not being "corrected as to what his religion is".

You mean the reporter didn't say "Your Christian faith"? Did you bother clicking on the video I posted, or do you only deny Ignorance when it's convenient to do so?

Obama said, "Well, what I’m saying is he hasn’t suggested that I’m a Muslim." But that was cut off of the original video. He corrected himself but the blip in the OP doesn't let us hear that.

My post included the whole dialogue.. why don't you view it?

Just FYI, I'm not going to tell you what I think you should believe. I put the full video out there so people could see it in context and form their own opinions. I have faith in the intelligence and critical thinking skills of most people here.

I'm sure you do BH, that's why you even refute words coming out of his own mouth.

And? That matters as much as the Muslim thing.

Exactly, so why did you try to malign John McCain with your innuendo?

That's explained above.

It is here too.

No. Not as long as people take little blips of videos (or quotes) and post them like they mean something. One thing I'm here to do is deny ignorance. Taking a small, out-of-context blip of a video (or quote) and posting it with no context... I'm sorry, it's ignorance. And I'll do my best to deny it.

You deny everything negative regarding Obama.. Why not answer the question about how you know Barack is not lying BH? Would that refute your claim of "denying ignorance" when you have to say: because Barack said so?

I don't need to watch your link. I watched the whole interview. And I posted a link to it before your post.

Originally posted by LLoyd45
Why not answer the question about how you know Barack is not lying BH?

I did, Lloyd.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
When someone makes a claim, it is up to them to provide proof of their claim.

You're right, and this is the whole point.

Obama had a Muslim father and Muslim step-father. This would indicate his mother was attracted to Muslim men. She moved away from her family to Indonesia, which is has the largest Muslim population in the world. Obama was named after his Muslim father. Obama's half-brother is Muslim.

So at least on the surface, at outsider looking in wouldn't be able to easily know one way or another if Obama was Muslim or not.

So Obama claims he's been a Christian all his life. According to you, it's up to the person making the claim to provide proof of their claim.

What is Obama's proof? Does he have a baptismal certificate? A Confirmation? Kids he went to bible school with? Pictures of him as a kid in Bible school? Pictures of him with an Easter basket on Easter morning? Pictures of him opening his Christmas presents? Pictures of him sitting on Santa's lap? Pictures of him at church?

Based on your own standard, where is there ANY proof of Obama's claim that he has been a Christian his whole life?

Originally posted by jamie83
Based on your own standard, where is there ANY proof of Obama's claim that he has been a Christian his whole life?

He hasn't been a Christian his whole life. His mother and Father were both atheists. He adopted his first religion (Christianity) some 20 years ago. Before that, he didn't have or practice any religion at all, although he learned a lot about several religions, including Islam and Catholicism.

He owes no one any proof of his religion, but unless you're living in a hole, you know he has been attending Christian churches for over 20 years.

This has all been discussed. I don't see any reason to go over it all again. Believe what you believe.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
He owes no one any proof of his religion, but unless you're living in a hole, you know he has been attending Christian churches for over 20 years.

Everyone else must provide conclusive proof, but not Barack Obama. He owes no one anything. So much for denying Ignorance..

I think it probably was a slip of the tongue. However, it does demonstrate, again and again with the documented gaffes, that he has trouble talking without a teleprompter

One issue involved was the "breathizer" speech where he claimed he was tired. Well, what's going to happen if there is a crises and he has to operate without hours and hours of sleep? Is he going to be able communicate effectively?

The left for years have been all over, President Bush for his speaking, why isn't turnabout fair play??

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
He hasn't been a Christian his whole life.

I thought he said he's been a Christian his whole life. Maybe I mis-remembered this.

He owes no one any proof of his religion

Of course not. I was just asking YOU want evidence Obama gave that met your criteria that he proved his claim to be Christian his whole life. If he never made the claim to being Christian his whole life, the point is moot.

Maybe I was mistaken about his claim to be Christian his entire life.

Obama would never have said "my muslim faith", using the first person possessive, unless it was an integral part of his identity.

Originally posted by Loke.
For you people to be in the land of the free i really have a hard time understand what his religious faith has to do with him running for Presisdent. I mean come on we are in the year 2008 and religion should not be an issue, like a child "out of wedlock" should not be an issue. Aim towards their core, their politics and keep out faith and family.

I know a lot US citizen are religious, but no matter what believe system you answer to, may itbe muslim, christian or jewish i recon, that all swear to uphold the good will towards all men and women, and to uphold peace.

Best regards

Loke.

Then he needs to stop dancing around the truth and be honest about it.

I said this before and I will say this again, religion should not be mentioned in politics at all. There is a seperation of church and state in this country. Look at the presidential race with Mr Kennedy before he became president. They were all talking about him being Catholic and how the Vatican would rule the U.S. It never happened. Religious people should just get this mindset out of their heads and lets hear what these politicians have to say about more important things.

Boy these guys just love riding on the hypocrisy express BH...

Religion is a matter of choice, period, regardless of how you choose to hear things or as to what another person may look like to you. You all preach more individual freedom yadda yadda yet you want to push your own religious values on our law system and that very right away from woman and at the same time you accuse another individual of being something they choose not to be. To make it evens worse the ignorance of islam here is just amazing. Obama will never be accepted as a fellow muslim as well if he declares his committment to christianity and if he does not do the 5 prayers a day, period.

People are so desperate to cover McCains flop of a choice its just amazing to what lengths