Exchanging the bondage of OT Law for the bondage of Secular Humanism logic: What's the difference?

It's still bondage to earthly standards built up by man that can never transcend spiritually and lead to freedom the way Christ, in His life, death and Resurrection does.

People who reject the Bible because of the conflict between OT law and NT freedom have no concept of what the "seed of promise" and the "seed of bondage" are really all about. They find nothing but inconsistency and contradiction in the Bible, and rightly so. They are the lost, the ones Christ came to seek and save. They remain in bondage to their beliefs, which they defend as logical, because they lack the spiritual strength to reach out in faith to something that transcends their own narrow viewpoint. They are afraid to take risks and be validated. They fail to understand that is exactly what Christ is asking them to do; put aside themselves and their own selfish desires, and live for something larger and more fulfilling than they can ever imagine.

Instead of giving your opinion on how you view those who oppose your ideas, would you mind logically and clearly laying out the reasons that you came to the title statement. It would be much more useful to me and I am interested in it, but was quite disappointed to find more of a rant that did nothing to back up the title. I would appreciate any effort on your part as to laying out the reasons why you believe what you said in the title.

I am not disagreeing or agreeing with this post. Just curious.

[edit on 7-9-2008 by justamomma]

humanism and attaining self-actualization

is just as compelling as biblical living, but which also requires one to transcend the ego self, and one's Id... without surrendering to a nebulous 'Divinity' or Lord or savior, redeemer, etc

as does the internal construct of religious-spirituality that a group of like minded share amongst themselves...
a fictional man-made world given substance by the force of individual & collective passion and emotion, which are then given the terms faith & belief.


imho, i'll stick to humanism & self-actualization, and such

Just comparing the two, one deals with that which is real (us) and the other centers around a phantasm. I can interact with other people and they with me. I can demonstrate the existance of others and they can do likewise. However, religionists cannot demonstrate that their imaginary friend exists. Where is he, this spook who demands our faith, obedience and worship? Is he hiding? Is he scared? Is he ashamed? Did he do something so wretched he can't show his face?

The simple and obvious answer - We see no gods because there are no gods.

I looked up "secular humanism" on wiki. I don't see anywhere how one can be under bondage of secular humanism. In fact, it gives you freedom.

Secular Humanism

Tenants of secular humanism:

Need to test beliefs – A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted on faith.

Yes, one need to "test his faith" whether his faith is true or not. We all see the results of blind beliefs in dogmas.
The Christianity belief requires that you believe in whatever interpretation of the bible says without question or test. This is bondage of your self and mind.

Reason, evidence, scientific method – A commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.

Again, we see the results of dogmatic beliefs. For example, there is a thread about a young man on death row for reading an article. Is this the right solution?

Fulfillment, growth, creativity – A primary concern with fulfillment, growth and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.

Do you see much progress during Old Testament times and in the Muslim world? So much strife and wars.
I am aware that Christianity does leave rooms for growth, fulfillment, and growth.

Search for truth – A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.

There is always a constant search for truth, where dogmatic beliefs stop it.

This life – A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.
Ethics – A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.
Building a better world – A conviction that with reason, an open exchange of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.

Aims at better lives and world... isn't that what everyone wants?

Again, how is this bondage under secular humanism logic? This gives us freedom.

Your rebuttal?

reply to post by justamomma


That's why there is a question mark at the end. I'm asking you, the reader what the difference is. I'd like to discuss your answer to the question.

reply to post by St Udio


To me what is missing is the sense of community, the shared realization of a greater purpose.

reply to post by Lilitu

However, religionists cannot demonstrate that their imaginary friend exists.

Except to other believers, and those genuinely seeking spiritual enlightenment in an open-minded way. It starts with an internal realization of the Divine nature of Creation and grows into a shared realization of the hand of God working His will in our lives.

To me, bondage to OT Law and bondage to New Age logic differ only in the packaging. They both deny the Spirit as transcendent and rely on man to attempt to define the inexplicable.

reply to post by Deaf Alien

The Christianity belief requires that you believe in whatever interpretation of the bible says without question or test. This is bondage of your self and mind.

This simply isn't true, though it is a common misconception of non-believers. We are required to test everything against the revelation of Truth provided every saved Christian by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. We are required to search out Biblical context and reference and dig below the surface of the words to get at the meaning God intends. You may deny this, but I assure you it is real to me and every other saved Christian, and I have seen it demonstrated too many times to question its validity any further as a test of truth.

A scientific hypothesis itself is a stepping out in faith of a sort. In fact, most early scientists in the West were Christians, as well, although the Church did not always support their findings.

Thank you all for your comments and I hope we can continue this discussion in a thoughtful, considerate, accepting way.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising

The Christianity belief requires that you believe in whatever interpretation of the bible says without question or test. This is bondage of your self and mind.

This simply isn't true, though it is a common misconception of non-believers. We are required to test everything against the revelation of Truth provided every saved Christian by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. We are required to search out Biblical context and reference and dig below the surface of the words to get at the meaning God intends. You may deny this, but I assure you it is real to me and every other saved Christian, and I have seen it demonstrated too many times to question its validity any further as a test of truth.



You mean this verse

1 John 4:1 (New International Version)
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Well, there are so many denominations in Christianity that we have lost count. Which one has the correct interpretation of the bible? You tested the validity of your beliefs and "found to be correct," while others did the same and yet have different interpretations.

A scientific hypothesis itself is a stepping out in faith of a sort.

No, it came out of observations of nature.

In fact, most early scientists in the West were Christians, as well, although the Church did not always support their findings.

Some early scientists were muslims. Does that means their beliefs were correct?

That's the beauty of the Bible. Each verse can have its own truth to each individual who reads it, as well as layers of truth to those who read it repeatedly. I have also experienced this and shared it with others many times.

I said "stepping out in faith, of a sort" about scientific hypotheses. What does a scientist do with an hypothesis? Can't the same be done on a different level with observations of the supernatural?

Of course the Muslim world made great advances in science, and I am not taking anything away from that, it just isn't pertinent to this thread. You see I confined my comment to Western culture.

[edit on 7-9-2008 by Icarus Rising]

My daily Scripture reading brought this to my attention and I couldn't think of a better place to post it.

Isaiah 29

20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:

21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.

22 Therefore thus saith the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale.

23 But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel.

24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.

Oh, how I await the day! Praise God!


[edit on 19-9-2008 by Icarus Rising]

OP my question is this. If they really are the same kind of bondage, but in a different package, why is it so important to ensure that the "Christian Package" is the only one that is opened?

And when you say things like this:

That's the beauty of the Bible. Each verse can have its own truth to each individual who reads it, as well as layers of truth to those who read it repeatedly.

Don't you realize that what you are doing is endorsing moral relativism, albiet mis-label as "God's Will?

[edit on 19-9-2008 by asmeone2]

No, I'm not, you misunderstand me.

I'm endorsing personal spiritual growth guided by the Holy Spirit and the revelation of truth. Such growth brings new perspectives to bear on the same passages in the Bible, exposing more, sometimes deeper, truth. We are all in different stages of personal spiritual growth, at different positions along the path. Some are moving forward, some backward, some are content not to, or too scared to, move much at all.

There is only one package, the Truth. You either choose to open yourself to it or you don't. I find it in the Bible. You may search for it, or not, where you like.

Bondage is bondage, whether to OT legalism or New Age relativism.