Venezuela to host Russia navy exercise in Caribbean

Just to add to my post:

Please could somebody tell me how a Second Cold War could help the U.S. in regard to oil? If, during such a stand-off, your enemy and its allies were in control of most of the oil supply, wouldn't that make it all the more difficult?

Surely you'd need to be militarily 'pro-active' (and by that I mean go to war for oil... again).

The US sends ships into the Black Sea and Russia responds by sendingships into the Caribean........same difference. Why the shock now? Because someone has actually stepped up to the plate to play ball?

Its like a tit for tat at the moment, kind of interesting in a way, like watching 2 experienced Chess Players at a tournament.

One thing Id like to bring up here, and Im sure others may have come across this, of a conspiratorial nature of course,

I read once, actually several times that the Cold War was fabricated between the 2 superpowers to mask a possible threat from outerspace whilst not revealing it to the public. Thus, by having a major threat in the world, that of M.A.D, the public on both sides supported the massive military buildups of the 2 superpowers and the expansion of both powers around the world.

It kind of makes sense if that theory is true. But within the last decade, you have to admit, the USA has expanded its empire around the world alot, and the fact that the Russians are starting to flex their muscles now makes me think if that original Cold War conspiracy theory was true, and if in fact "THEY" know of something threatening us, the earth again, and are masking their agression against each other by another massive buildup of their military forces around the Earth to counter this threat or to possible prepare for it.

I know it may be a little far fetched, but not beyond the realms of possiblity.

I think that there may be 2 sides to this coin here and "THEY" arent revealing what the truth is......as is always the case.

reply to post by Melbourne_Militia


I think you are onto something there, however I must correct you, the threat from outer space was never for the people of Earth. The threat from outer space is for the so called "Leaders" who have been manipulating the population of earth for decades and even centuries. They know their time is running out, they know that the people will find out the truth about everything, including everything they have done against us. There isn't much they can do about it, but it doesn't stop them trying.

That is also the reason for all the secrecy surrounding the UFO phenomenon as well as the sea of disinformation associated with it.

The governments of the world are more of a threat to you the people then the threat from outer space.

The healthy, functional minds know this, as for the rest of us, perhaps we should have a good think about who our true enemies are. Who suppresses high technologies which can benefit human kind? Who uses natural resources and land as commodities? Who has a campaign to dumb down the general populace, also create superficial problems to hinder our development (eg: the monetary debt system) and take our mind away from the real issues at hand? Just turn on your TV - it's all there.

It's not the Russians or the Americans, it's not the Aliens either. It's the very leaders you THINK you elect (Russian, American, English or any other). Some of you who are screaming: "democracy that, democracy this" are so controlled, you don't even know it.

WAKE UP!

Just to add a bit more:



The key reason why I don't think this could develop into a protracted Cold War is because it is about the physical, rather than the abstract; that is to say, a Cold War is based upon an essentially abstract confrontation ― but we now find ourselves locked into a struggle over the physical... oil and energy.

As we found out (to our relief), a Cold, idealogical stand-off can be won with cultural, economic, hegemonic methods (with a lot of military posturing thrown in). But, again, this is mainly idealogical; what happens when it's being fought over that which is physical? You can't gain control of a quickly diminishing (and therefore incredibly lucrative) Eastern oil supply by using the same means that you used to win a non-combative, non-physical, idealogical tug-of-war. If the target is actually physical (oil and energy is), then the means to obtain that target must surely be physical, too.

When Hot turns to Cold, basically.

...Or, should I say: 'When Cold turns to Hot,' actually.

That's why this current stand-off (with this current NATO-U.S. foreign policy) is so potentially dangerous.

Edit to add:

I don't mean 'quickly diminishing oil supply' in the sense that all the oil will have run out by next Friday; It's not looking great in the long-term, though, is it?

I'm not an oil expert or anything (as you might have guessed )

[edit on 7-9-2008 by chips]

Maybe George Orwell was a prophet himself? In 1949 he writes a book obviously that would be "1984". The Superpowers are NorAsia, Eurasia and Eastasia. Could he have been that clear of a long term thinker? Could he see the way the post WWII world was shaping up with communism sparking up and military alliances being formed as well as some imperialism on both sides, Russia and the U.S.

With economies around the world practically merged we're becoming a one world state.

It wouldn't surprise me if Israel goes for Iran, Chavez pipes up about it and makes threats, The US doesn't like that so they take on Chavez, The Russians don't like either and take over Georgia so that they can reinforce Iran. China steps in and shuts down the Panama Canal now that they own it and support Chavez. Which when all is said and told nukes will more than likely be used and whatever is left of this planet will be carved up by whoever is left over until hundreds of years down the road we're right back in the same boat.

Now, I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that, I just cant imagine how these people in power can live with themselves. It shows that they suffer from mental illnesses because they are delusional. They view it as a big chess game, I'm willing to lose my pawns in order to move in for the kill. Well, there is consequences for that. People die and are displaced by the millions, their ability to provide for their families is destroyed.

I'm sorry to say this to my American friends because I traveled alot in your country prior to 911. I still do, Pt. Roberts WA, San Juan Islands. My point is that the foreign policy you have been using since WWII is starting to collapse and people are viewing your failures in Iraq and Afghanistan as weekness. Your economy is in real trouble and the Fed Reserve which got you there has no choice now but to make it worse. It doesn't look good.

This is why Chavez, Putin and Iran are starting to seize on the moment before the collapse. Because rats will jump ship before it sinks. Loose allies the US has in the Middle East, South America and Asia might want to think about who they align themselves with. A pending US meltdown has a lot of countries thinking.

Canada has an upcoming election in October. The difference between us and the US is that our campaign will be 16 weeks instead of 2+ years. Just get on with it and get it over with. There is real news in the world to report about not this campaign nonsense non stop for 2 years.


I'm done ranting.

so when does Russia start sponsoring revolutions in latin america to destabilise the USA policy of monroe doctrine , which will force the USA to once again show its genocidal face , so that world can see how evil USA is

[edit on 7-9-2008 by manson_322]

That's Chinas job now, besides latin America doesn't need much help to have revolutions

Seriously

Russia must be pissed in order to do this, Hugo really is a whacky guy, wasn't that long ago a Ruussian diplomat told him to shut up...

Bush at least was a modern ruthless dictator, this guy isn't even in style, the Russians had the whole Work persons shirt and banging your shoe on the table and acting loud at the UN thing down in the 50's

I'm no saying anyone needs to be as material as the US and worry about style, but this dictator is 60 years out of style

He seriously needs a makeover

reply to post by manson_322


Who do you think at this point has any illusions about how evil America is besides americans?

Chavez is nat a big deal, the real problem for the US is inside please see the video:

www.911missinglinks.com...

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012

Originally posted by johnsky
With so many countries turning to Russia for defense... the US may just be up the creek without a paddle if they make any more enemies. Very dangerous game they're playing.

Dangerous game indeed.

There is a price for Russian defense against the USA and its allies, and that is oil and natural gas.

I'm not sure if people can actually see what is going on here, or where this is ultimately leading.

If we can't control our foreign oil supplies, then we are under the control of those who do. The Russians are keenly aware of this, The US economy has shown its weakness through dependence on foreign oil, a weakness that can be exploited.

War may be inevitable.

No war can be inevitable if peoples decisions come in to play. People that want peace.
Correctly stated that the US major dependency is from foreign oil.
People can actively demand research for new technology that can terminate dependence from oil. Can demand a serious space program that would solve many problems also and gives both a boost and transformation in this county's economy.
Two new goals can be achieved from this.
US would be setting again a new examples that would revolutionize the world in both ways of making new philosophies of enterprising and promote non dependance of energy sources, others have to only follow. You could be setting the lead again.
What leading examples is the US setting these days and with the current situations? The biggest army? The most guns? The lead of the most offensive nation in the history of Mankind?

Nothing going to happen if we just sit and wait for a global war to happen, except of course global war itself that will have to happen.
Since now we all seem to realize the dead end we all are in, is time for some tough and brave decisions. It is time for a new revolution. Probably NOW is the time for a real revolution.

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia
The US sends ships into the Black Sea and Russia responds by sendingships into the Caribean........same difference. Why the shock now? Because someone has actually stepped up to the plate to play ball?

Its like a tit for tat at the moment, kind of interesting in a way, like watching 2 experienced Chess Players at a tournament.

One thing Id like to bring up here, and Im sure others may have come across this, of a conspiratorial nature of course,

I read once, actually several times that the Cold War was fabricated between the 2 superpowers to mask a possible threat from outerspace whilst not revealing it to the public. Thus, by having a major threat in the world, that of M.A.D, the public on both sides supported the massive military buildups of the 2 superpowers and the expansion of both powers around the world.

It kind of makes sense if that theory is true. But within the last decade, you have to admit, the USA has expanded its empire around the world alot, and the fact that the Russians are starting to flex their muscles now makes me think if that original Cold War conspiracy theory was true, and if in fact "THEY" know of something threatening us, the earth again, and are masking their agression against each other by another massive buildup of their military forces around the Earth to counter this threat or to possible prepare for it.

I know it may be a little far fetched, but not beyond the realms of possiblity.

I think that there may be 2 sides to this coin here and "THEY" arent revealing what the truth is......as is always the case.

Actually it might be the other way around.
A space threat might be the easy way out of a nuclear standstill.
Space can leave everyone happy. You, me, our kids, the manufacturing complexes which now have to specialize in guns for making profits and thus is promoting wars, US, Russia, etc. and unfortunately also a One World Government.
Someone has really to bring back that trend of us looking up, there is hope up. We just sit and argue and bitch about everything while others are making history in our absence. They can create every scare they like out of everything because we don't have a passion about the real and endless possibilities that surround us.
God wouldn't put us in situations that there are no ways out of or around them.
We just don't have the the passion to realize them and we need to work towards building up that passion.

What can politicians do except from what We give them enough chances of doing?
The world is not really interested in new ways of making things, it has become stale, unimaginative, conservative and boring. Our thoughts is the driving force of everything.
You can only get back what you put in, if we haven't put anything in, we won't be getting anything out of it. It will be OUR lazyness and stupidity responsible for any bad outcome in the first place.
We don't really give anyone a choice by the ways We react and think.

[edit on 7-9-2008 by spacebot]

[edit on 7-9-2008 by spacebot]


[edit on 7-9-2008 by spacebot]

This is just Chavez and Putin having some fun, thumbing their noses at the US but with a serious message.

So far no one has pointed out one of the major reasons for this: the US Navy announced a few months ago that they were resurrecting the Fourth Fleet, inactive for about a half-century, to patrol in the Caribbean and northern coast of SA.

With all the Venezuelan oil and now the 2 new huge fields off the coast of Brazil, well--what a surprise!

So Chavez and Putin are laying down counters, marking their territory.

And the Brazilians also just announced that they are developing nuclear-powered attack subs in co-operation with the Argentinians.

The Caribbean and NE coast of SA will be the next Persian Gulf in 20 years' time. This is just the start.

[edit on 7-9-2008 by gottago]

reply to post by gottago


Are they laying down markers, or genuinely worried about a US invasion for control of their oil?

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Chavez, who buys billions of dollars of weapons from Russia, has criticized this year's reactivation of the U.S. Navy's Fourth Fleet, which will patrol Latin America for the first time in over 50 years.

The socialist Chavez says he fears the United States will invade oil-rich Venezuela and he supports Russia's growing geopolitical presence as a counterbalance to U.S. power.

reply to post by manson_322


By genocide do you mean shortly after World War II, Russian leader Joseph Stalin committed a Genocide on the Chechen People.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Sheesh...

Speaking softly and carrying a big stick.

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012

Pushing ever closer to world war?

It may not be Cuba, but it is close enough to send a message to Washington.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, an outspoken critic of Washington, has said in recent weeks that Russian ships and planes are welcome to visit the South American country.

Anyone get the feeling that Chavez would like to see a war between Russia and the USA?

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 6-9-2008 by The_Alarmist2012]

Are you kidding me? And the people that "Star and Flag" this? This will happen and life will go on, we do things like this all the time off the coasts of our "not so close" friends.

You act like this never ever happens.

I swear all it takes is one "remotely" associated with a war and everyone's all over it like the Iran/US deal. Wasn't that war suppose to happen a year or so ago?

G E T A G R I P

The U.S. and Russians aren't close friends... sure but there's nothing there to cause a war over, not like back in the ole days

Originally posted by Masisoar

G E T A G R I P

The U.S. and Russians aren't close friends... sure but there's nothing there to cause a war over, not like back in the ole days

This hardly about friendship, or the lack of. It is about dominance over global energy resources.

Economic failure is a possibility for the USA because of its dependence on foreign oil. There is more going on here than many may think, or perhaps I am just being an Alarmist?

Have a look at this, and please follow the posted source link, maybe you will see the build up, and better understand the potential for war and conflict, though it may not be direct conflict between Russia and the USA at first, it could ultimately "go there"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by The_Alarmist2012


Yeah, I'd just ignore that. You're not being alarmist.

There will always be those posters who kind of saunter from thread to thread, 'enlightening' us with their trite, uninformed, holier-than-thou, 'move along people — there's nothing to see here' drivel.

Embarrassing.

There's no need to be rude to people.

I swear all it takes is one "remotely" associated with a war and everyone's all over it like the Iran/US deal. Wasn't that war suppose to happen a year or so ago?

G E T A G R I P

Interesting.

Wasn't that war suppose to happen a year or so ago?

Well, according to you it was.

Masisoar: The Iranian Issue - Consequences

When I woke up this morning and went to CNN.com, that was the first headline I saw, and my stomach didn't get a good feeling. That has to be one of the more eery things I've been fearing in the back of my mind - An excuse to go to war with Iran.


I'm asking you! The people of this board - what are your opinion? I really don't think this will turn out well at all and may not lead to an invasion of Iran, but rather a tactical strike.. and where will that lead...

Hilariously, after some time had passed, you then followed this up by saying (on the Iran issue):

This has been spammed on ATS.com along with other Iran Bull@#$@.

Just drop it and stop trying to scare everyone.

Riiight. But I thought you were the one who said there was probably going to be a 'tactical strike,' Mr. Scaremonger? Oh, dear.

G E T A G R I P

Heh.

This is what happens when we stick our nose in other countries' businesses.

[edit on 7-9-2008 by SeekingAlpha]