Venezuela to host Russia navy exercise in Caribbean

Venezuela to host Russia navy exercise in Caribbean

news.yahoo.com

CARACAS (Reuters) - Several Russian ships and 1,000 soldiers will take part in joint naval maneuvers with Venezuela in the Caribbean Sea later this year, exercises likely to increase diplomatic tensions with Washington, a pro-government newspaper reported on Saturday.

Quoting Venezuela's naval intelligence director, Salbarore Cammarata, the newspaper Vea said four Russian boats would visit Venezuelan waters from November 10 to 14.

Plans for the naval operations come at a time of heightened diplomatic tension and Cold War-style rhetoric between Moscow and the United States over the recent war in Georgia and plans for a U.S. missile defense system in the Czech Republic and Poland.

(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 6-9-2008 by The_Alarmist2012]

Pushing ever closer to world war?

It may not be Cuba, but it is close enough to send a message to Washington.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, an outspoken critic of Washington, has said in recent weeks that Russian ships and planes are welcome to visit the South American country.

Anyone get the feeling that Chavez would like to see a war between Russia and the USA?

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 6-9-2008 by The_Alarmist2012]

reply to post by The_Alarmist2012


Star and flag for you.

Maloy was right: This might result in something very unpleasant indeed.

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
Anyone get the feeling that Chavez would like to see a war between Russia and the USA?

well, I doubt he'd like to see a War, per se, but rather be friends with a resurgent Russia as an afront to American dominance in the region.

By doing this, he is signalling he is a friend of Russia which has obvious conotations should the US ever want to do a "regime change" on his ass.

reply to post by stumason


Russia seems to be solidifying its ties with Iran and Syria, basically every enemy of the USA.

While it may seem to be something else, it is all about dominance over oil and natural gas, whichever (USA or Russia) can achieve dominance over the world's oil producing nations will then have control and/or influence over all nations dependant on that oil.

Who is being more aggressive in that regard?

USA or Russia?

Ultimately it will likely lead to some kind of serious conflict between the west and Russia.

Chavez is a pawn, and Venezuela a square on the board in a serious chess game.

One neither side will want to lose.

reply to post by stumason


If Hugo Chavez wasn't so dangereous, he'd be hillarious. He is quite the flamboyant speaker - denouncing Bush and America at the UN - repeatedly visiting with Iran, N. Korea, Syria, and Russia - anyone who hates the US. Within his own country he is notorious for the love of his own voice. He believes himself the reincarnate of Simon Bolivar, and his job is to save South America from the Imerialist USA. He is also the leader of one of the largest non-OPEC oil producing nations in the world. So he holds that card. I believe, imho, that the only reason Russia has any interest in Cuba or Venezuela is in direct response to not only the way NATO/US and the EU have pinned the Bear in, but also because they see in the world's eyes that the United States has lost some of it's clout, and who are they to tell others they can't pre-emptively take action to safeguard their nations? I mean, for a minute there I thought something was going on in Georgia but I guess it's over now...Our voice has been muted in terms of discrediting the military actions of those we don't like. By putting ourselves at the level of criminals, thieves, murderers, and "Nation Builders" look for other to follow suit. And who are we to complain? You know how much D.C. hates Hugo right now.

ColoradoJens

reply to post by The_Alarmist2012


Dang - similar post to mine and you beat me to it!

ColoradoJens

Let the fear rhetoric continue. I still feel this is a scheme created behind doors between Bush and Putin to get the fear ratcheted up in both nations so the banks and the military industrial complexes in both nations can make some big bucks. Not much money to be made in peacetime now is there?

reply to post by mybigunit


You may be correct but I'd hardly call it peacetime. We hardly can sustain the economy and manpower to oufit our current armed forces. I hope we aren't thinking about convincing the dupes about the necessity to invade Venezuela. Obviously with the bizarre nature of the Georgia "war", something is afoot and the unstable nature of the balkans, the struggling EU/Nato structure, and the mere presence of Russian battleships in the Carribean is a little unsettling, don't you think?

reply to post by ColoradoJens


Chavez compared to Bush is a Saint
he has done more in his country to bennifit his people then bush has done in his 8 years destroying the very fabric of the US.


on topic.

Russia showing the US they are at the front door aswell

reply to post by bodrul


Comparing two evils is diffcult. What he has done for his country is another matter. Although for a few years after full privitisation of the Mariciabo oil fields the country grew, it has since been in decline. The slums of Caracas never went away and the poor in Venezuela, for all it's South American wealth, remain that. Poor in Caracas is not poor in Cleveland. Chavez has further created insability by directly financing FARC and although intent is always lauded and I understand the argument for a fair and equitable treatment of South America on a whole, he is still a total jerk.

I had to edit: You may be right in your assesment that he has done "more" for his country than Bush. Bush has hurt the US in so many ways we may not recover for many years, if at all. Hugo, who is a murderer and a thief, personally, will rape and pillage Venezuela as he is doing now until it is time to pack up the paintings from the presidential palace and move to Panama. Bush may be joining him there, ironically.

ColoradoJens

[edit on 6-9-2008 by ColoradoJens]

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
reply to post by stumason

 

Russia seems to be solidifying its ties with Iran and Syria, basically every enemy of the USA.

Which isn't exactly hard considering the enemies Bush has made.

With so many countries now nervous about who the US will seemingly randomly invade next... many are pretty keen to have Russia as an ally.

The US's invasion of Iraq, and desire to invade Iran tell the rest of the world that they don't have to provoke the US... or even disagree with them... if they feel like hitting you, they will... they'll sort out the excuses later.

With so many countries turning to Russia for defense... the US may just be up the creek without a paddle if they make any more enemies. Very dangerous game they're playing.

Not that I'd want to see it happen... I'd rather if the US hadn't gone through the last 8 years of history with that nut job Bush at the helm.

This whole Russia-US scenario is like a slow-motion boating accident .
You see the pier getting closer and closer , you brace yourself and wait for the crunching sound.
A couple of thousand people comprising advisers/think-tanks/ & leaders both Russian & American holding the worlds millions on tender hooks.
A very dangerous game played by enormous Ego`s.

Hegemony sucks


edit; remove extra word

[edit on 6-9-2008 by UmbraSumus]

Originally posted by johnsky
With so many countries turning to Russia for defense... the US may just be up the creek without a paddle if they make any more enemies. Very dangerous game they're playing.

Dangerous game indeed.

There is a price for Russian defense against the USA and its allies, and that is oil and natural gas.

I'm not sure if people can actually see what is going on here, or where this is ultimately leading.

If we can't control our foreign oil supplies, then we are under the control of those who do. The Russians are keenly aware of this, The US economy has shown its weakness through dependence on foreign oil, a weakness that can be exploited.

War may be inevitable.

Sunday, September 7, 2008

Venezuela plans Russia navy visit

Venezuela says it plans to hold joint naval exercises in its territorial waters with Russian forces in November.

A senior Venezuelan naval officer said four Russian ships would take part in the exercises, which would also involve Venezuelan aircraft and submarines.

Correspondents say the move is likely to raise concern in the US, whose relations with Russia have been soured by Moscow's recent conflict in Georgia.

Washington already has rocky relations with Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez.

In July, he called for a strategic alliance with Russia to protect Venezuela from the US.

Caracas and Moscow agreed to extend bilateral co-operation on energy, with three Russian energy companies to be allowed to operate in Venezuela.

Regional first

On Saturday, Venezuela's Rear Admiral Salbatore Cammarata Bastidas said four Russian ships and 1,000 Russian troops would take part in exercises in Venezuelan territorial waters from 10 to 14 November.

"This is of great importance because it is the first time it is being done (in the Americas)," he said in a statement quoted by the AFP news agency and local media.

President Chavez supported Russia's intervention in Georgia last month and has accused Washington of being scared of Moscow's "new world potential".

Earlier, US Vice-President Dick Cheney launched a furious attack on Russia over the recent conflict in the Caucasus.

Mr Cheney described Moscow's actions against Georgia as an affront to civilised standards and said it was reverting back to old Soviet tactics of intimidation and the use of brute force.

He added that Russia was also seeking to use its energy resources as a weapon.

(BBC News)

Russia views Chavez as a clown - much like U.S. does - for that is what he is. Any serious aspirations or idealogies that he may possess, are overshadowed by his idiotic behaviour and PR tricks. Interestingly, President Saakashvili of Georgia is viewed the same way in Russia. In fact, some in Russia are drawing a parallel between Chavez and Saakashvili, only Chavez is pro-Russia and anti-U.S.


Untill now Russia mostly ignored Chavez' advances. Yes they sold some weapons to the guy - but thats business as usual. It appears that now, because of Georgia and NATO, Russia is more willing to go out of its way to solidify relations with anyone who is anti-U.S. Even though Russia has no inherent interet in any alliance with Chavez - it will go ahead with it to spite U.S. (just as U.S. is spiting Russia in Eastern Europe). I have a feeling the same is about to happen in Iran and Syria.


Still - I wouldn't make anything of this exercise just yet. Right now it is just symbolic of where Russia-U.S. relations have come and where they are heading. But if the U.S. continues to push, Russia will continue to react.




As for oil/gas - what does Russia have to gain from Venezuela's energy riches? Russia hardly needs any imports from Venezuela. And the two can't really share any pipelines or projects. The only way I see the energy card being played here is the OPEC style - strength in numbers.

If Russia allies with the energy giants like Venezuela, Iran, and Kazakhstan, they will have much more power over energy markets and prices combined. Just like OPEC, they can coordinate their actions to have a major impact on world energy supply - and in turn an impact on economies of countries like U.S.

[edit on 7-9-2008 by maloy]

Originally posted by maloy
If Russia allies with the energy giants like Venezuela, Iran, and Kazakhstan, they will have much more power over energy markets and prices combined. Just like OPEC, they can coordinate their actions to have a major impact on world energy supply - and in turn an impact on economies of countries like U.S.

Exactly, again the US economy has shown its weakness because of dependence on foreign oil.

If we (USA) cannot control our foreign oil supplies then we are under the control of those who do.

It is a race for dominance over global energy resources, it may be symbolic for now, but escalation is certain.

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
reply to post by stumason

 

Russia seems to be solidifying its ties with Iran and Syria, basically every enemy of the USA.

While it may seem to be something else, it is all about dominance over oil and natural gas, whichever (USA or Russia) can achieve dominance over the world's oil producing nations will then have control and/or influence over all nations dependant on that oil.

Who is being more aggressive in that regard?

USA or Russia?

USA.

As of late, Russia is just giving the west a taste of it's own medicine. USA is still more provacative than Russia.

If Russia truly wanted to imitate what America is doing, Russia would be doing war games in Cuban waters. America has had war games in countries all along Russia's border, along with screwing with governments. NATO members are starting to surround Russia.

I think its fair time that Russia told America where to stick it.

Ultimately it will likely lead to some kind of serious conflict between the west and Russia.

I very much doubt it. We all know any war between America and Russia would be nuclear. America could beat Russia in a conventional war, but their military would be crippled and would maintain extreme losses. That is a result neither want so they know they will have to pre-emptive nuke.

It won't turn hot because a cold war is more profitable. Move aside Al-Qaeda, Russia's back on top of the fear list.

Now the MIC and oil companies can rake in even more ridiculously sinful amounts of money off of the new cold war.

[edit on 7-9-2008 by ben420]

reply to post by ben420


Yeah, good points.

I think the general point Alarmist was making, though, is that this current situation isn't quite the same as the Cold War; there's a marked difference now — and that's the global race for quickly diminishing oil and energy supplies.

Alarmist was right; a Cold War would give a boost to the military industrial complex, but it's oil we're really talking about here. Would a Cold War help you on the oil front? It would need to become Hot to do that (physical occupation and actual military activity, I mean).

The best we can hope for is a Cold War in the current circumstances. But, then, you don't always get what you hope for — as oddly perverse as that might sound in relation to current geopolitical climate.

I thought it was curious that Nicaragua is to be the first country to officially recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia. I figured Venezuela or Iran/Syria would have that all locked down.

Nicaragua is preparing to officially recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia, Nicaraguan officials said on Thursday.

"We have started preparing all the necessary documentation for an official recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia following instructions issued by the president," Nicaraguan Deputy Foreign Minister Manuel Coronel Kautz has said as cited by Ria Novosti.

"Nicaragua recognizes the independence of S. Ossetia and Abkhazia and fully supports the Russian government's position," President Daniel Ortega previously declared.

Nicaragua would become the first country after Russia to recognize the two republics as independent states.

For Russia to develop relations with and even arm allies in the US back yard is fair, if nothing else. Holding exercises in the region with Chavez is just a "screw you, we can do it to you too" to Washington.