DEVELOPING: RNC Detainee alleges torture in Ramsey County jail

reply to post by sp00n1

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Hmmm, I didn't watch the first video because I have no sound so I don't know what the kids are claiming. However, the second video didn't really need any sound to distract from what was going on. What was I supposed to see?

The first person being arrested did something after they had passed the camera that caught the bike cops attention. You could see this clearly. One of the cops pointed downward because he either saw some kind of contraband or the biker did something. That is when they moved around him to pull him down.

For any of you who think this is a crime perpetuated by the cops and want to slam anyone who objects by saying that they are asleep you must first realize my normal stance on these videos. I have seen many atrocities done by supposed 'peace' officers that I am absolutely against. Even if there are mitigating circumstances that lead up to the brutal actions. This person was not violently taken down off of his bike. He was not kicked, tased, or mauled by more cops than necessary. He was cuffed (strapped) and then placed into the car for transport.

To be honest, it looked like a legit arrest (one of the few I have seen online probably because people don't want to post the legit ones, just the ones that are controversial). I have read many of the posts and even replied to the definition of a chemical weapon post. But I have yet to see anything that explains how the arrest was so terrible.

As for the person that called out the flag being backwards, yes, I believe one of the bike cops pointed it out. Pretty hilarious actually.

Police brutality? Nope. Didn't see it.

First off, let's please drop this STREET TERRORIST BULLS*** now. That is a neocon extreme conservative term that will only further degrade our freedoms in this country. It is a cop out to simply lable anyone a terrorist. That means, by definition as depicted in the Patriot Act, this kid, as you call him a "street terrorist" could be taken to a foreign land to be held without trial for an indefinite period of time simply because you have labeled him a terrorist.

What you are doing my friend is showing the shallowness that is your view on the right of people to protest.

If he intentionally bumped into a cop to try and knock him off then he is a criminal. Not a terrorist. That is such a pathetic point of view to take on this that I can't seem to stress it enough. HE IS NOT A TERRORIST.

IMO, what I saw in that video was an officer getting knocked off of his bike and the man who did it being arrested for assaulting the officer. The police in this video, IMO, maintained their composure & did not seem to be overly agressive in their arrest procedure. (They actually seemed rather calm & collected to me)

Now if this man was beaten at the police station, that is a different story entirely & the incident should be investigated throughly. But all I saw in that video was police officers working crowd/traffic control in an effective manor.

Which is, on another topic, a very good point. I spoke to this point (not referring to Tzu though) on the "I was there" thread about the guy who was at the concert/protest on the first night in Minnesota. He mentioned what he at first claimed was a plant and then stated later that he 'thought' he was a plant that came in drunkenly and tried to incite things.

This IS a tactic that is used by all sides people. The best way that they can destroy a legit protest is to blow it up from within. The best way to do this is to send in plants that will give REASON for the authorities to move in which will in turn cause the rest of the protestors to respond in like manner. Thus destroying the protest from within because now hundreds will be arrested and they will look like idiots on national TV.

But a lot of people will call that a conspiracy theory (the ones that don't buy it). Sorry, it was something that I was actually trained to do just in case we got backlash from the first Gulf War. It happens all of the time.

I guess he deserved to be tortured then?



One day, somehow, somewhere, you may find yourself being labelled a "terrorist" too. Especially if you refuse to give up your basic rights.

Some of the responses here show that people can rarely view an incident objectively.

I think the kid making the accusations was embellishing the story quite a bit to gain sympathy and exposure for his future lawsuit, of which I think is detestable and harms the purpose for which the assembly was originally meant for.

However, the protesters that were marching should never have been assaulted in the first place. People, as citizens of the United States of America, have the right to a peaceful assembly. It's a right that millions of our ancestors fought and died for on the battlefield.

The police purposely sought to break up their assembly and provoke an incident which would result in "making an example" of as many protesters as possible, if not dispersing the protest altogether. This is deplorable to me as an American and as a human being.

These police officers have been brainwashed by new "domestic threat" training courses. Many now see protesting as something that's nearly unlawful and believe that it should be immediately dealt with. The procedures that they have learned in such new training courses were perfectly demonstrated in the video clip.

This liberty-stifling, police-state mentality coupled with current "government bail-outs" of certain corporations that I shall not name, perfectly demonstrates the workings of a Fascist Society.

When I was growing up a rapper by the name of DJ Quik who sung a song called "just like Compton." The moral of the song was that there were many other cities in the US that were just as bad, if not worse than Compton.

He's got to come up with another song called "Just like China" because no matter how authoritarian you think China is, the US is coming dangerously close to being that same country.

reply to post by sp00n1

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Poor brainless thing.
What else should he do to become even less credible?

i was going to put up a serious reply and tell you all that i have first hand experience getting my arse handed to me while i was detained in cuffs but with all the baiting and flaming i think ill just leave it at that.....

reply to post by sp00n1

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The U.S. Supreme Court in U.S. v. John B. Burke (April 2008 conference, cert. denied) upheld a 1st Circuit decision upholding the use of tactics defined as torture under U.S. treaty commitments against American citizens on U.S. soil (including hooded interrogations in restraint chairs, detention naked in a strip cell for days, threats/humiliations by guards, episodic deprivations of food, and other techniques, sham "sentences," detention in a super-max department disciplinary unit, etc.) against PRE-TRIAL detainees in Federal custody. Restraint chairs, four-point torture techniques, deliberate starvation, and other tactics are now COMMON PRACTICE in super-max facilities. The Feds are also now deliberately starving prisoners with low calorie diets in selected facilities in order to reduce their will to resist and "act up." The bottom line is that what has been happening in this country is that conduct by prison staff commonly used against convicted prisoners in disciplinary units (serving "sentences within sentences" after due process) are now being applied - en masse - to unconvicted detainees (nullifying the U.S. 5th Amendment).

Here's the rub...Most of America can read headlines about how the Administration has claimed it can commit torture (a criminal act under assault/Hobbs Act statutes/even terrorism statutes when directed against a person - WHO IS NOT SENTENCED - for group or political reasons). What many need to wake up to is that the 1st Circuit and the U.S. Supreme Court this year have thrown their lot in with the terror state agenda. The prison system is now utterly lawless. The "bright line" around the prison systems had long meant no rights for CONVICTED prisoners. The terror state apparatus has now asserted the claim that non-convicted detainees can be subjected to conduct by prison officials that not only is unconstitutional, but (read up on recent U.S. Supreme Court cases nullifying state laws) in violation of state laws and Federal codes (now routinely violated based on wanton conduct reflecting mere expediency of the executive branch). That is, recent executive branch decrees and Federal court decisions allow prosecutors and prison staff to committ terroristic criminal acts - so long as it is done under "color of official right" (and mainly behind the walls of a prison/detention facility). Recent 4th Amendment cases show the assertion of lawlessness by the state terror apparatus is being extended to the streets - but that is another topic. Bottom line: it's over...They've done it... The 1st Circuit and U.S. Supreme Court have weighed in...The 5th Amendment is null. The entire United States has been reduced to a super-max disciplinary unit.










[edit on 8-9-2008 by forliberty09]

[edit on 8-9-2008 by forliberty09]

[edit on 8-9-2008 by forliberty09]

it was a peaceful protest until the cops showed up. And even if the kid did assault a cop, which HAS NOT BEEN ESTABLISHED, he doesnt deserve to be tortured.

What ever happened to due process, innocent until proven guilty?

What ever happened to no cruel and unusual punishment?

What ever happened to holding the police accountable for their actions?

What happened to free-speech, and freedom of assembly?! If you need to ask the government for a permit, its not a right.

And to you trolls that think people exercising their rights are terrorists, well, i guess ill see you in the gulag.

...Welll Well Well...Isn't it SO Very EASY to sit behind a keyboard,and than profess to know what others DO or DO NOT know about for them selves... I mean...Look...You "know IT ALLL",and you were NOT even there! ...Maybe,just MAYBE it is YOU who knows nothing about why these people are here instead ;-) ...Either you KNOW and you would have/should have ALSO been there...Or maybe its just that you DON'T care,and your peachy keen about living with things the way they are... ...See how it feels to be personally speculated by someone who does not know you from a hole in the wall?,its FUN is it not?...

Sorry,I mean't to wish you good luck with your court case but i was too astounded by some of the comments regarding this young man's hideous experience.Regarding any resemblance to Jeffery Dahmer you should have replied-'Oh that's strange officer ,I always had myself down as a dead ringer for Ted Bundy,as I'm always a hit with the ladies'-they probably would have beat you senseless and said you tripped over a loose shoelace but it would have been worth it.What was the verdict in your case?Ten years in some gulag spmewhere?

reply to post by justme2

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Well,the neo-con gestapo'ers have one big problem.History has taught us that those who collude with the oppressors have a limited usefulness and sooner or later will be looking down the barrel of a gun like the rest of the proletariat.Example-zonnderkommando inthe death camps inWW2.Better to get strong ,be brave and face up to reality.A state based on fear and violence to control the people is basicaly weak as it does not have support of the people(remember when you were all taught to be good patriots,to love the flag and America-you were united then).

Very well put again, CF.
"We were just following orders" didn't work back then.......And it sure as heck won't work now.

reply to post by candyfloss

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Why does everyone feel the need to establish a political party link to EVERY SINGLE THING posted on ATS?!!

Those in control of our government - and in turn, our political system/parties - have done a great job of convincing feeble minded people that there is a major difference in party affiliation. There is minimal difference at an ideal level. Practically no difference in governing policy.

Get over yourselves ... Democrat ... liberal ... Republican ... conservative. Our problems don't rest within a political affiliation.

With the current state of our militarism and Fascist mentality ... do you think it'd be any different if a Democrat were in office? If so, think again.

The Police State is here to stay if ignorant people continue to bicker over who's left and who's right. It's not the left or right that's wrong with the country .. it's the division of our most valuable assets ... the citizens of our country.

Am I the only person who's heard the term "Divide and Conquer?" I'm afraid Average Joe has fell for the propaganda hook, line and sinker. And the people that run the show don't seem to be reeling you in ... they just let you fight at the end of their line.

[edit on 9-9-2008 by tyranny22]

reply to post by tyranny22

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Thank you for your reply but I don't quite understand your message as regards myself.I understand generally what you are saying but I was'nt putting any political veiwpoint,I was just picking up on Just me2 's point about it's the neocons that are the naysayers in this case .That may be true or not be the case.But I think what ever your political persuasion ,it must be obvious that this case was an abuse of power and human rights.

reply to post by candyfloss

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Sorry, my entire response wasn't directed entirely at you. I only referenced your post because of the first sentence:



As for the rest of your post; I agree with you.

My post was directed at the general population of ATS that continues to throw around left/right rhetoric endlessly baiting users and antagonizing political argument. It's the same reason I changed my signature to what it now reads below.

[edit on 9-9-2008 by tyranny22]

Here is a recent update on the situation of the arrests at the RNC: