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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 08:53 PM by peacejet
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Originally posted by Manasseh
reply to post by peacejet
Yes, thanks for the news, but I want to clarify one thing, how doe the contrails which are reflecting enough sunlight into space contribute to global
warming it be global cooling, please clarify.
Because silver iodide (silver salt) kills the trees, plants, everything eventually.
Take a look at the salt flats for example. The less greenery, the hotter it gets.
Also, the use of liquid carbon dioxide creates a haze that has a blanketing effect.
Combine that with the higher pollution from the extra air traffic, and you can probably figure it out, since your avatar has that fancy satellite
(space station) in it.
[edit on 6-9-2008 by Manasseh]
You are confused contrails of aeroplanes dont contain silver iodide which is used in cloud seeding, the contrails contain only the mixture of gases
like co2 and cfcs, and they only cause global warming. 
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 08:55 PM by Enigma Publius
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Originally posted by peacejet
en.wikipedia.org...
I saw the on wiki and even it clearly states that only from below it exerts warming effect by trapping the gases.
Feedback effects due to clouds are an area of ongoing research. Seen from below, clouds emit infrared radiation back to the surface, and so
exert a warming effect; seen from above, clouds reflect sunlight and emit infrared radiation to space, and so exert a cooling effect. Whether the net
effect is warming or cooling depends on details such as the type and altitude of the cloud.
So, you see the reflecting sunlight does not cause global warming it causes cooling that is what I mentioned.
"seen from above..."
we are on the ground(well most of us)
"seen from below...and so exert a warming effect"
straight form your post.
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 08:55 PM by Manasseh
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reply to post by Enigma Publius
No problem Enigma.
I want to further show the effects of cloud seeding. Take a look at this picture of current forest conditions in the mountains of Colorado.
They blame it on pine beetles. Pine beetles are not the cause, they are natures way of naturally cleaning up the dead and dying trees. Beetles don't
attack healthy trees because the sap produced by a healthy tree kills them.
The effects of entire forests dying is exponential. Less greenery to cool the environment, less CO2 recycling to clean the air, and more smoke from
the increase forest fires.
We only have a few year left, before people will start dying like the forests are because of the accumulation effect.
Take a look at the Colorado weather modification permits.
# Central Colorado Rocky Mountains Program (Denver Water (was on standby))
# Upper Roaring Fork Basin Program (Colorado Springs Utilities)
# Vail/Beaver Creek Program (Vail/Beaver Creek)
# Gunnison Basin Program (Gunnison County)
# Grand Mesa (Water Enhancement Authority which is comprised of Collbran WCD, Fruitland Mesa WCD, Crawford WCD, Grand Mesa Pool)
# Western San Juan Mountains Program (Southwestern CD, City of Durango, Animas La Plata WCD, Durango Mountain Resort, Dolores WCD)
# Eastern San Juan Moutains Program
cwcb.state.co.us...
Everywhere there is a permit for modification, the forests are dying in groves.
And it's not just the pines. It's the Aspens too.
And when is the last time you saw a perfectly blue sky. The skies have been hazy for the last several years, and it's getting worse. And strange fog
every morning.
Please folks, look at the signs. This needs to be stopped now. It's going to take decades for the environment to recover.
Remember, the bible warns us about them poisoning our waters.
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 08:58 PM by peacejet
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Originally posted by Enigma Publius
Originally posted by peacejet
en.wikipedia.org...
I saw the on wiki and even it clearly states that only from below it exerts warming effect by trapping the gases.
Feedback effects due to clouds are an area of ongoing research. Seen from below, clouds emit infrared radiation back to the surface, and so
exert a warming effect; seen from above, clouds reflect sunlight and emit infrared radiation to space, and so exert a cooling effect. Whether the net
effect is warming or cooling depends on details such as the type and altitude of the cloud.
So, you see the reflecting sunlight does not cause global warming it causes cooling that is what I mentioned.
"seen from above..."
we are on the ground(well most of us)
"seen from below...and so exert a warming effect"
straight form your post.
You are not getting my point seen from below means seen from the ground, we cant say that a satellite orbiting at a geostationary orbit is below the
earth. Catch my point. 
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 09:03 PM by peacejet
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I do accept that chemtrails do exist and the damage that they are causing to the ecosystem and I will never deny that fact, but I just want to make it
clear that the contrail is different from chemtrail. Chemtrail is only silver iodide or any other electrified sand like substances which carry a
charge opposite to the cloud and when sprayed causes cooling of the clouds and creates precipitation, on the other hand contrails occur at high
altitudes clear of the low level rain causing clouds and they occur because the hot gases coming from the engine undergoes immediate cooling in the
cold region forming the water vapour. Clear. 
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 09:05 PM by Enigma Publius
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reply to post by peacejet
i see what you mean now. it is hard sometimes to fully grasp what someone intends when presented with a coupla sentences to come to a conclusion
with. I don't know a whole lot on this issue, i can only say what i feel, and i think there is definately somethig to the chemtrial thing, having
witnessed 2 very different acting contrails right nex to eachother in the sky.
[edit on 6-9-2008 by Enigma Publius]
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 09:05 PM by Manasseh
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reply to post by peacejet
You are confused contrails of aeroplanes dont contain silver iodide which is used in cloud seeding, the contrails contain only the mixture of gases
like co2 and cfcs, and they only cause global warming.
No, I am not confused.
This invention relates to the modification of supercooled clouds. The principle of the current large-scale weather modification method, including the
technique of rain augmentation seeding, involves artificial generation of ice crystals in supercooled clouds and fogs with a resultant spontaneous
phase change.
...
The former works when a portion of the cloud is chilled below -40° C. by a strong coolant.
...
The second category of ice nucleants is called ice (forming) nuclei, and ice forms on the individual particle of the nucleus substance. Silver iodide
(AgI) and metaldehyde are examples of artificial ice nucleus substances. AgI, the most widely used nucleus substance for weather modification, is
expensive and toxic to small or baby fish, algae and bacteria.
...
Preferred embodiments of the invention are illustrated in the accompanying drawings in which:
FIG. 1 illustrates the flow of air and ice crystals with a cloud seeded according to the invention;
FIG. 2, a liquid carbon dioxide tank and rack arrangement for use in a cloud-seeding aircraft; and
FIG. 3, a diagrammatic depiction of a series of liquid carbon dioxide cylinders showing the arrangement of spray nozzles; and
FIG. 4, plumbing of liquid carbon dioxide spraying system on a seeding aircraft.
...
FIG. 2 shows a design for the LC rack in aircraft use. It satisfies the requirement of being housed in a seeding aircraft and has been approved by the
FAA (Federal Aviation Administration).
...
To operate the seeding system, after confirming the existence of a seedable condition in the cloud, all the manual valves of the LC cylinders are kept
open from the beginning, and a cylinder solenoid valve will be opened and kept open until the cylinder is empty. The empty condition may be determined
by the warming of the seeding nozzle detected by the attached temperature sensor. When the first cylinder has been emptied, the cylinder solenoid
valve will be closed and the second cylinder solenoid valve opened for continuing operation. This method will be applied until all the cylinders will
have been emptied. In this manner, partially emptying the cylinders can be avoided, making their replacement more efficient.
www.freepatentsonline.com...
www.x-plane.com...
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 09:09 PM by peacejet
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 09:15 PM by Manasseh
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reply to post by peacejet
My point is, the "contrails" are not showing up in the water vapor satellite images because it is not water vapor.
It is silver iodide, and Liquid CO2.
The silver absorbs the heat of the sun, and that is why the contrails show up in infrared, because infrared detects the heat absorbed by the
contrails.
It's not rocket science. It's logical reasoning, and years of research into this.
What are the scientists blaming global warming on? CO2.
That's what happens when you spray the stuff in the atmosphere to satisfy greedy water boards, and people like China brag about it, saying they can
control the weather is if they are God.
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 09:18 PM by peacejet
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And since when did aeroplane engines use silver iodide 
Silver is relatively expensive how can such huge quantities be bought by the airline company as fuel, the airiline will become bankrupt within a week
which is worse than getting bankrupt due to the high fuel costs. 
[edit on 6-9-2008 by peacejet]
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 09:29 PM by rightuos
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Ok, well I tried to find a satellite zoomed water vapor image but i guess they don't exist however I have discovered something of the water vapor
images as a whole.
The water vapor images are missing a lot more than just contrails they are missing detail of just about all cloud cover.
I believe if it were to show full detail we should see lots of splotches all over the map from these type clouds.
Looking back on the water vapor maps they just aren't there.
and the infrared image once more to notice it is detecting these splotches from clouds in greater detail.
I also found they aren't very large at all from up high.
Take these for example
From below
From above
From above no color
From above zoomed out
Notice they are almost not visible in the last image, and its still zoomed pretty close. I think your asking for the water vapor images to show detail
they just aren't capable of doing.
Contrail images found here:
contrailscience.com...
Edit: added image sources
[edit on 6-9-2008 by rightuos]
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 09:31 PM by Manasseh
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reply to post by peacejet
And since when did aeroplane engines use silver iodide
Silver is relatively expensive how can such huge quantities be bought by the airline company as fuel, the airiline will become bankrupt within a week
which is worse than getting bankrupt due to the high fuel costs.
Silver Iodide is suspended in acetone (paint thinner). When it is burned the silver iodide expands to 600,000 billion particles per gram! 600 lbs of
silver iodide is enough to cover the entire United States with 100,000 particles per square ft.
The silver iodide is injected into the hot exhaust of the aircraft engine, effectively vaporizing it.
Two experimental cloud seeding experiments over Beulah were conducted by the U.S. Weather
Bureau, National Hurricane Research Laboratory, during Project Stormfury on 23-24 August 1963.
Approximately 800 lbs of silver iodide smoke were dispersed into the clouds surrounding the eye
during these two days.
ntrs.nasa.gov...
That was in 1963!!! Imagine how much they've put into the atmosphere since then.
How much does smoke weigh? Imagine how much silver iodide smoke they pumped out to disperse 800lbs.
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 09:38 PM by Manasseh
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reply to post by rightuos
The last two images are interesting.
Could you please source those so I may take a look.
I've been trying to find close-ups.
Notice how noticable the contrails are in the infrared shots, and those are from pretty high up.
Contrails SHOULD be detectable at the same distance in water vapor mode.
I appreciate your intelligent rebuttle, and look forward to your sources.
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 09:49 PM by rightuos
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con/chemtrail images can be found here, I added to my original post but in case its missed there since i edited here it is again.
contrailscience.com...
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 09:56 PM by Phage
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Originally posted by Manasseh
Scientists will tell you that those long trails left behind aircraft are just water vapor, and you should just go back to watching TV, instead of
questioning the "experts"
Contrails form high in the atmosphere when the mixture of water vapor in the aircraft exhaust and the air condenses and freezes.
No, scientists do not tell us contrails are composed of water vapor. Water vapor is the gaseous form of water. Water vapor radiates strongly in the
6-7 micron infrared band thus it is readily apparent in imagery using that very narrow band.
As your own quote states, contrails are composed of condensed, frozen water vapor....ICE! Not water vapor. Water vapor is not the same thing as
condensed water (lower level clouds) or ice (higher level clouds). That is why contrails do show up in other infrared bands and not the band used for
water vapor imagery.
[edit on 6-9-2008 by Phage]
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 09:56 PM by badmedia
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Interesting question.
But more interesting are the responses. It's funny that people will come up with any excuse that is remotely possible as a way of disproving
something, but then reject anything that isn't undeniable proof in the other direction.
And that works both ways too btw.
Does anyone actually know the answer to this question?
Oh and btw, as for those fluffy clouds, they do appear on the image.
And the sensors of the water vapor HAS to be set to detect even minor amounts of vapor because that is why it shows such a thin layer almost
everywhere. Alot of those vapors are so thin they don't even form clouds, thus why you don't see those fluffy clouds all alone. That light grey
color in the water vapor maps isn't even an actual cloud because it's not yet dense enough.
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 10:07 PM by Manasseh
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reply to post by rightuos
OK, so I checked the MODIS satellite site.
Here is Central Colorado. I can tell you, I saw hundreds of contrails today, persisting and forming into clouds. There should be some visible, but
they are not.
rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov...
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 10:20 PM by Phage
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reply to post by Manasseh
What time of day did you see the contrails?
What is the time of day of the image?
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 10:24 PM by rightuos
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reply to post by Manasseh
Oh I'm not doubting that some turn into clouds at all. I have pictures I took myself of this going on. I have been taking pictures of these for some
time, I lost a lot of my photos when our apt. went up in flames but i live closer to the airport now (right next to some runways) so I have been
getting some good pictures lately. I'll dig some up.
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reply posted on 6-9-2008 @ 10:27 PM by MatrixBaller04
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reply to post by rightuos
FINALLY. I was too lazy to do all the detailed work, but this is what I was getting at earlier. The zoomed out satellite images just don't capture
the detail like zoomed in ones do.
[edit on 6-9-2008 by MatrixBaller04]
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