Why McCain/Palin is bad for America, and Americans.

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posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 02:34 PM
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Caution: Partisans read this with care.





As I do every election year, I'm going to attempt to lay out in the simplest terms possible (and I'll try to use smaller words) Why the vast majority of voters who have actually educated themselves on our candidates' platforms have chosen Barack Obama. This is, while written by a liberal person, a fair and honest appraisal of both platforms, Republican and Democrat, and a truthful assessment of the validity and overall benefit of a given party's platform.

That being said, the sources for my research goes directly to the source, platform material taken directly from each candidate's website, available
herefor Obamanauts
and hereFor you McCain-anators


On the issues:

Healthcare

Barack Obama's stance on Healthcare is immediately apparent when you read the following, in which he briefly outlines a plan to get healthcare to everybody.


“We now face an opportunity – and an obligation – to turn the page on
the failed politics of yesterday’s health care debates.... My plan begins
by covering every American. If you already have health insurance, the
only thing that will change for you under this plan is the amount of
money you will spend on premiums. That will be less. If you are one of
the 45 million Americans who don’t have health insurance, you will have
it after this plan becomes law. No one will be turned away because of a
preexisting condition or illness.”

--Barack Obama, Speech in Iowa City, IA, May 29, 2007

The section continues into an outlined breakdown of problem points, solutions, and Barack's own record on the subject.
It is very comprehensive and available here: Health Plan

John McCain's stance on Healthcare is a bit more precarious, from his own website:


John McCain Proposes Making Insurance More Portable. Americans need insurance that follows them from job to job. They want insurance that is still there if they retire early and does not change if they take a few years off to raise the kids.
John McCain Will Encourage And Expand The Benefits Of Health Savings Accounts (HSAs) For Families
John McCain Will Reform Health Care Making It Easier For Individuals And Families To Obtain Insurance.
John McCain Believes The Key To Health Care Reform Is To Restore Control To The Patients Themselves.
John McCain Will Promote Proper Incentives.

--John McCain's platform literature

The Bottom Line:
What McCain has added to his platform reads well, and makes the concerned voter feel at ease, but I realized that there was very little substance in the actual platform, as it was filled with buzzwords and intangible ideas. McCain promises things like 'making it easier' and 'giving people the choice'. That, in my opinion, is tired old paleocon claptrap, notwithstanding the fact that in his very platform he promised more "proper" incentives to drug companies. Looking exclusively at their policies on healthcare, and most importantly, healtcare for the uninsured, McCain falls short. If one of your primary concerns in the upcoming election is healtcare, then Barack Obama is a candidate that you should research.

(EDITORIAL NOTE)I noticed as I read that McCain's platform materials begin a paragraph very strong, and in bold type, then immediately lose all substance. He makes great claims but then fails to explain what that means. I suspect it is because John McCain appears to have not written his platform himself, as opposed to the Blueprint for Change, as written by Barack Obama. This deepens my fear that the 'same old republicans' are the ones pulling the strings on McCain's side. Perhaps the Social Security sections will prove me wrong.(/EDITORIAL NOTE)




Clean energy and the dependency on foreign oil

This, I'm fairly outraged by, I clicked on the link on McCain's page and it sent me to a wash of drivel written a third party other than McCain or a staffer. To be brutally honest it looks like it came out of an investment brochure. On the actual issue, the document states that:



Our nation's future security and prosperity depends on the next President making the hard choices that will break our nation's strategic dependence on foreign sources of energy and will ensure our economic prosperity by meeting tomorrow's demands for a clean portfolio. John McCain has made the necessary choices - producing more power, pushing technology to help free our transportation sector from its use of foreign oil, cleaning up our air and addressing climate change, and ensuring that Americans have dependable energy sources. John McCain will lead the effort to develop advanced transportation technologies and alternative fuels to promote energy independence and cut off the flow of oil wealth to repressive dictatorships like Iran.
Quite good sounding.

Here's the bottom line on clean energy. McCain proposes a 5,000 tax credit for people who buy a 0 carbon emission car, and skirts every so closely to saying that we'll end our dependency on foreign oil in 2025. The Caveat to this being that, er, well...'Drill, Baby, Drill'

Barrack Obama pledged to end our dependence on middle eastern oil within 10 years, and proposes to federally mandate that 25% of consumed energy in the US comes from renewable 'green' sources. Furthermore he believes drilling in ANWR is nothing more than a stopgap measure.

In my eyes, and I hope it's as apparent to you, the Republicans have never, and will never be the solution to our energy problems, although McCain is one of the greenest elephants they have.

If you're ready to see your country move into the next generation of fuels and energy production then John McCain is not your man. As for the price at the pump, well...It's going to be pretty high for pretty much the rest of our lives. Granted it's come down a bit lately but we will never see gas below 2.00 a gallon again ever, and I personally think 3 is pushing it.


Defense and Foreign Policy
McCain is a typical big-military type Republican. On the Defense Budget at large:

The global war on terrorism, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, threats from rogue states like Iran and North Korea, and the rise of potential strategic competitors like China and Russia mean that America requires a larger and more capable military to protect our country's vital interests and deter challenges to our security. America confronts a range of serious security challenges: Protecting our homeland in an age of global terrorism and Islamist extremism; working with friends and partners overseas, from Africa to Southeast Asia, to help them combat terrorism and violent insurgencies in their own countries; defending against missile and nuclear attack; maintaining the credibility of our defense commitments to our allies; and waging difficult counterinsurgency campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq.


And on Homeland Defense:


As President, John McCain will ensure that America has the quality intelligence necessary to uncover plots before they take root, the resources to protect critical infrastructure and our borders against attack, and the capability to respond and recover from a terrorist incident swiftly.


No real surprises here for anyone who's followed McCain, as always he's got a real hard-on for the Military Industrial Complex. Not only does his "plan" for Iraq include a continued presence in Iraq, but calls for international pressure on Syria and Iran. How does he expect to get this done when our own allies are looking at us like we're posessed?


As for Obama:


“When I am this party’s nominee, my opponent will not be able to say
that I voted for the war in Iraq; or that I gave George Bush the benefit
of the doubt on Iran; or that I supported Bush-Cheney policies of not
talking to leaders that we don’t like. And he will not be able to say that
I wavered on something as fundamental as whether or not it is ok for
America to torture – because it is never ok. … I will end the war in Iraq.
… I will close Guantanamo. I will restore habeas corpus. I will finish the
fight against Al Qaeda. And I will lead the world to combat the common
threats of the 21st century: nuclear weapons and terrorism; climate
change and poverty; genocide and disease. And I will send once more
a message to those yearning faces beyond our shores that says, “You
matter to us. Your future is our future. And our moment is now.”


This is Obama's Weak point, but the term weak is really a misnomer. He's merely inexperienced, based on his remarks regarding the future of Iraq:


The best way to press Iraq’s leaders to take responsibility for their future is to make it clear that we are
leaving. As we remove our troops, Obama will engage representatives from all levels of Iraqi society – in
and out of government – to seek a new accord on Iraq’s Constitution and governance. The United Nations
will play a central role in this convention, which should not adjourn until a new national accord is reached
addressing tough questions like federalism and oil revenue-sharing.


He shows a strong understanding of what it means to be a world leader, and sometimes that means occasionally letting the world lead you. Allowing the UN to take the primary role in the restructuring of Iraq shows a strong willingness to cooperate with our neighbors and avoid quagmires like Iraq.

McCain on the other hand still believes that the US has a formative role to play in Iraq:

(continued)

[edit on 9-6-2008 by Loki]




posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 02:35 PM
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Thanks to the success of the surge, Iraq's political order is evolving in positive and hopeful ways. Four out of the six laws cited as benchmarks by the U.S. have been passed by the Iraqi legislature. A law on amnesty and a law rolling back some of the harsher restrictions against former employees of the Iraqi government have made it possible for Iraqis to move toward genuine reconciliation. The legislature has devolved greater power to local and provincial authorities, where much of the real work of rebuilding Iraq is taking place.


I think this shows his lack of understanding that we have alienated the rest of the world, and we need to relinquish our hold on that country before our neighbors can even begin to think about getting back to where we were 6 or 8 years ago.


Education

Barack Obama comes to the table with recent experience in America's Educational system, but not much. He does have 2 school-aged daughters but I fear he may actually be out of touch with the reality of public school systems. Fortunately, according to what I'm reading below, he knows that they need more money, and better teachers, his platform promises to deliver just that.



High-Quality Zero to Five Early Education
Obama will launch a Children’s First Agenda that provides care, learning and support to families with
children from birth up to five years old.

Reform No Child Left Behind
Obama believes that the goal of No Child Left Behind was the right one, but that it was written and
implemented poorly and it has demoralized our educators and broken its promise to our children. Obama
will fund No Child Left Behind and improve its assessments and accountability systems.

Improve K-12
Obama will improve our schools by recruiting well-qualified teachers to every classroom in America. Obama
will improve teacher compensation by rewarding expert, accomplished teachers for taking on challenging
assignments and helping teachers succeed. Obama also will reduce the high school dropout rate and close
the achievement gap by investing in proven intervention strategies in the middle grades and in summer
learning and afterschool opportunities.

Make Community College and College Education Affordable
Obama will create a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that will make tuition at the nation’s community
colleges completely free and will cover up to two-thirds the cost of tuition at the nation’s public colleges and
universities. This $4,000 tax credit will be fully refundable and available at the time of enrollment in college
– when families need the money.



John McCain continues to fuel rumors that he is out of touch with America, the lynch pin of his education plan involves increasing the funding to our existing voucher system, and lowering standards in our schools via the NCLB act.


Public education should be defined as one in which our public support for a child's education follows that child into the school the parent chooses. The school is charged with the responsibility of educating the child, and must have the resources and management authority to deliver on that responsibility. They must also report to the parents and the public on their progress.



John McCain will place parents and children at the center of the education process, empowering parents by greatly expanding the ability of parents to choose among schools for their children. He believes all federal financial support must be predicated on providing parents the ability to move their children, and the dollars associated with them, from failing schools.

(Emphasis added, because you know the first thing we all should do is yank money out of failing schools, right?
)


I must say that if you have a little one and you value their education, and you do not make enough to send your children to private schools, then you should really research what McCain has to say, because it is my opinion that it's terrible for our childrens' future.


Well my friends maybe you don't think like me. Maybe you do. But surely you can see that the only thing McCain represents is more of the same, stifled growth, poor education standards, increased military spending, more and more foreclosed homes.

Maybe you see Obama as the bad guy here, he's working to bring our country down from the inside - well I just hope you understand how ridiculous that sounds.

Maybe you think McCain is somehow the better choice here, if that is the case then if you could please explain something to me that I have tried for days to wrap my head around, and that is this:

How can we as a proud people (as Americans are, and should be) together stand and tell the world that not only has the last 8 years been good for us, but that we want 4 more years of tired Republican hogwash and logrolling?



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 02:56 PM
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I could type out a long list of rebuttals to every point you make, but I'm going to make it short and sweet. Who am I kidding, this will probably end up huge..



First of all:

a fair and honest appraisal of both platforms


No, it isn't. Why don't you just be honest and say, "This is going to be a fluff piece about Obama"

Immieditly, we get to this gem:

Healthcare

Barack Obama's stance on Healthcare is immediately apparent when you read the following, in which he briefly outlines a plan to get healthcare to everybody.


“We now face an opportunity – and an obligation – to turn the page on
the failed politics of yesterday’s health care debates.... My plan begins
by covering every American. If you already have health insurance, the
only thing that will change for you under this plan is the amount of
money you will spend on premiums. That will be less. If you are one of
the 45 million Americans who don’t have health insurance, you will have
it after this plan becomes law. No one will be turned away because of a
preexisting condition or illness.”



What exactly is imminently apparent to you in this quote? From my perspective it looks like a lot fluff with no specifics on the most important question, how to pay for it. McCain's isn't much better, but at least its some points without all the fluff.

Next:


Here's the bottom line on clean energy. McCain proposes a 5,000 tax credit for people who buy a 0 carbon emission car, and skirts every so closely to saying that we'll end our dependency on foreign oil in 2025. The Caveat to this being that, er, well...'Drill, Baby, Drill'


Here's the bottom line. Our world runs on oil and it will for the foreseeable future. This is because no other technology has been found yet that has the cost effectiveness of oil. This is a fact of life.

What Obama proposes, is that he will somehow magically come up with a new source of energy. He doesn't hint at what that might be, or what it is, but dammit we will "end our addiction" to oil.


Barrack Obama pledged to end our dependence on middle eastern oil within 10 years, and proposes to federally mandate that 25% of consumed energy in the US comes from renewable 'green' sources. Furthermore he believes drilling in ANWR is nothing more than a stopgap measure.


How in gods name can he do that without drilling? What technology exists or is on the horizon, that will have an infrastructure in 10 years? What the hell is "green sources" mean anyway? On top of that, he thinks drilling for the thing we need the most, is a bad thing. Who's out of touch here?


No real surprises here for anyone who's followed McCain, as always he's got a real hard-on for the Military Industrial Complex. Not only does his "plan" for Iraq include a continued presence in Iraq, but calls for international pressure on Syria and Iran. How does he expect to get this done when our own allies are looking at us like we're posessed?


A real-hard on huh? You're talking about a guy who was captured, his bones broken beyond repair, for several years has a "hard on for the military"? We all know that you guys hate the military in general and I've always felt that democrats in general have a disdain for it. That is exactly why Obama is dangerous as President, especially when we're at war.


“When I am this party’s nominee, my opponent will not be able to say
that I voted for the war in Iraq; or that I gave George Bush the benefit
of the doubt on Iran; or that I supported Bush-Cheney policies of not
talking to leaders that we don’t like. And he will not be able to say that
I wavered on something as fundamental as whether or not it is ok for
America to torture – because it is never ok. … I will end the war in Iraq.
… I will close Guantanamo. I will restore habeas corpus. I will finish the
fight against Al Qaeda. And I will lead the world to combat the common
threats of the 21st century: nuclear weapons and terrorism; climate
change and poverty; genocide and disease. And I will send once more
a message to those yearning faces beyond our shores that says, “You
matter to us. Your future is our future. And our moment is now.”


Obama didn't vote for it all actually. He says he will "end the war in Iraq", yet fails to realize that if done to hastily, there will be no end to the war. If hes able to pull troops out at all, its because of Mccain's suggested change in strategy. The one that he voted against and did not support.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by Dronetek
No, it isn't. Why don't you just be honest and say, "This is going to be a fluff piece about Obama"


You see the difference here is that Loki is discussing the issues, he/she has provided the relevant sources and is sticking to the facts. Its a sure long cry from the garbage you fellas got going on here:

-Favorite Signs of Liberal Desperation
-Economy in Recession? More Liberal Lies?
-Palin Loves her Grandchild, Obama See His as Punishment

And in the wake of the revelation that Palin is part of the Alaska independence movement, you post this thread:

-Obama will actually vote to "help" Hawaii split from the US.
Yet his not party of any independence party, is he?

I mean we have this garbage being posted all of those forum, I mean the least you fellas can do is actually discuss the issues regardless of being bias but I am yet see any of this from you. All you do, all day, is post this propaganda garbage and it really brings the credibility of this forum down.



What exactly is imminently apparent to you in this quote? From my perspective it looks like a lot fluff with no specifics on the most important question, how to pay for it. McCain's isn't much better, but at least its some points without all the fluff.


Oh thats fine, Ill provide specifics;

-Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away from any insurance plan because of illness or pre-existing conditions. Bushes current system still gives those companys the power to turn their backs on some americans purely because they "risk" loosing more money on them, so they should continue to suffer? Since when did we put a price of a humans head?

-Affordable premiums, co-pays and deductibles, because the corporations can change the prices on healthcare. Because the single parent, student struggles to pay insurance right now due to economic reasons, why dont they get assistance from the government voted in by them, for them.
www.barackobama.com...-for-all

And you see, McCain is more than happy to point at the current healthsystem which is a joke to be frank, especially in this current economic situation, yet his plan offers no different to Bushes.
www.chron.com...


McCain's proposal is similar to one Bush put forth in his 2007 State of the Union address.

But it also leaves McCain open to the criticism that he is not doing enough for the poor and sick, who could face steep premiums and limited choices as they search for an insurance company willing to cover them. Critics of McCain's plan said it will do little to help people already struggling with health care costs.

Unlike his Democratic opponents, for instance, McCain would not mandate coverage for people with pre-existing conditions who have not already been covered by a company health insurance plan. Critics say that would leave millions of people without coverage.

"Our next president has to get healthcare costs under control. But like President Bush, John McCain won't stop rising healthcare costs," asserts the Service Employees International Union, which has endorsed Obama, in a new television ad running throughout the swing state of Ohio.

www.chron.com...

So in english, screw those who cant afford it and are ill already, every man for himself eh? Little change coming from McCain, im not surprised.



Here's the bottom line. Our world runs on oil and it will for the foreseeable future. This is because no other technology has been found yet that has the cost effectiveness of oil. This is a fact of life.


Oh wonderful, a lack of confidence and will for the need to development alternative fuels. Instead of getting us off the very resource that is dragging us and our economy down, the very resource that allows the oil companies to have so much influence in the whitehouse, the black currency and your saying that we simply drill for more":
www.eia.doe.gov...
... and what, it will only take 10years for that oil to reach the pumps? And wasnt it just west of Anwr that BP and other oil companies had been drilling for years now? And apparently their bringing our a fraction of oil as they did before. Drill out way out, is the only answer McCain has.


What Obama proposes, is that he will somehow magically come up with a new source of energy.


Lack of government focus on alternative energy right now, and you wish to continue it because you lack confidence in Americas innovative minds. The oil companies will keep americans at bay if we continue to drill.



A real-hard on huh? You're talking about a guy who was captured, his bones broken beyond repair, for several years has a "hard on for the military"?


And now we have the "How dare you quesion him because he was a POW" BS, its got hypocrisy written all over it. I couldnt give a damn what the man went through if he refused to support the GI bill and wishes to continue the same old politics. The man has no real solutions, he just made small changes to Bushes failed solutions and then put his name on it. His supporters frankly couldnt give a damn.


We all know that you guys hate the military in general and I've always felt that democrats in general have a disdain for it. That is exactly why Obama is dangerous as President, especially when we're at war.


You see, more republican garbage, courtesy of the neocons. This is what happens when people speak out against the war, against the military complex, against the real elite. We are labelled as anti-american, anti-support our soldiers. Its a pathetic tactic.

-If you question the war of lies, your anti-american, anti-troops.
-If dont follow Bush and if you question our current government, your a marxist, your unpatriotic yadda yadda. You know it sounds more like fascism coming from the righties.


Obama didn't vote for it all actually. He says he will "end the war in Iraq", yet fails to realize that if done to hastily, there will be no end to the war.


-Tell me what are we doing in Iraq again?
-Why are we spending over $200million a day on a war the Republicans cant seem to explain the reason for anymore?
-Your answer to the military industrial conflict is that war is inevitable?
-Where is Osama Don?

Its almost become the state of denial with you all.

[edit on 6-9-2008 by southern_Guardian]



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 03:22 PM
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How do you feel about the inevitable drop in standards, research and overall ability for a universal/socialized health care system to care for your needs?

Or were you not aware that people in Canada who can afford it come to the US for medical care?

The government should be stepping in and controlling the frivilous law suites and outrageous punitive damage awards, that made people like John Edwards rich, which drive up the cost of health care.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by Dronetek
 


1. It's not a fluff piece on Obama. It's a lint-roller for McCain. He needs it bad, dood.

2. What is immediately apparent to me in the above quote is the part where Obama says:


If you already have health insurance, the
only thing that will change for you under this plan is the amount of
money you will spend on premiums. That will be less. If you are one of
the 45 million Americans who don’t have health insurance, you will have
it after this plan becomes law. No one will be turned away because of a
preexisting condition or illness.


With no pandering, bending words, or wiffling on the subject. These are cold hard facts. If you have no insurance, well...you will. And the premiums will be lower if you already have it. That's not fluff. That is what we call an issue, and a real, actual 'stance' on it.


3. What we need most is not oil, but alternatives. 150 Billion dollars is a LOT of money. I know the astronomical debt ran up during this mental deficient's two terms has blown our perspective of that money way out of the water, but rather than paying for 4-6 months of war in Iraq, 150 Billion will lead the way to discovery of those 'mystery fuels' you're wondering about. There is a Finite amount of oil in the world and so long as we are using such a finite resource to provide power the cost of everything is going to continue to climb. It's basic fiscal planning. If you have to spend too much when securing your COGS(Costs of Goods and Services) then the bloody machine won't work.

4. Yes, John McCain has a hard-on for the military industrial complex. I will say it again if necessary. He's so deep in their pocket he hasn't seen the light of day in over 22 years, and I guarantee you that should you elect him our deficit will continue to rampage unchecked and the military will feel the pinch the least. He not only wants to continue our presence in Iraq but put more boots on the ground over there, calling for action against Syria and Iran. He's a joke for even trying to run as a pure candidate, Prison Camp or not. War is all you should expect McCain to do, and if it were the 1960s or 70s again he might even do it well but he's just another dinosaur trying to prop up a pile of dead bones and call it a plan for America. As for Barack Obama: a 16-month withdrawal timetable is hardly a 'sudden' move.

(You guys hate the military? you mean liberals? Because my brother is in Iraq right now. I support the troops more than you know, and don't ever tell me otherwise.)

Pages 50-55 of his platform address Foreign Policy, he addresses over a dozen different Foreign Policy situations facing the president now. All fluff? Hardly.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by mhc_70
 


The only thing driving up the cost of healthcare;


Is the rising profit of drug and insurance companies.

Ever seen a pill sell for over 20$ apiece?

Ever seen a pill sell for over 20$ apiece where more than one was needed in a day?

The only reason Canadians have to come to the US for care is that Drug Companies are bankrupting the perscription plans.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by Loki
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread388766

The only thing driving up the cost of healthcare;


Is the rising profit of drug and insurance companies.

Ever seen a pill sell for over 20$ apiece?

Ever seen a pill sell for over 20$ apiece where more than one was needed in a day?

The only reason Canadians have to come to the US for care is that Drug Companies are bankrupting the perscription plans.


What do you think will happen if the drug companies aren't making a profit? I ask because R&D takes lots of money to stay on the cutting edge.


3. What we need most is not oil, but alternatives. 150 Billion dollars is a LOT of money. I know the astronomical debt ran up during this mental deficient's two terms has blown our perspective of that money way out of the water, but rather than paying for 4-6 months of war in Iraq, 150 Billion will lead the way to discovery of those 'mystery fuels' you're wondering about. There is a Finite amount of oil in the world and so long as we are using such a finite resource to provide power the cost of everything is going to continue to climb. It's basic fiscal planning. If you have to spend too much when securing your COGS(Costs of Goods and Services) then the bloody machine won't work.


None of this answers how Obama will do any of what he promises. Its all a bunch of hype built on a hope that something will be developed by than. Its unrealistic.

[edit on 6-9-2008 by Dronetek]



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 03:34 PM
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Boy how the tide has shifted.

I never expected to see leftists scare tactics being spewed by the dems



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by Dronetek
 


Really ready for Obama's energy platform?

Here goes, also directly from his website:

Achieving this goal will not be easy. Energy independence will require far more than the same Washington gimmicks and continued dependence on costly and finite resources. It will require a sustained and shared effort by our government, our businesses, and the American people. But America
has overcome great challenges before. With clarity of direction and leadership, there is no question that we possess the insight, resources, courage and the determination to build a new economy that is
powered by clean and secure energy. Barack Obama has a comprehensive energy plan that provides immediate relief to struggling families. It
also summons the nation to face one of the great challenges of our time: confronting our dependence on foreign oil, addressing the moral, economic and environmental challenge of global climate change, and building a clean energy future that benefits all Americans.

Obama’s comprehensive New Energy for America plan will:
• Provide short‐term relief to American families facing pain at the pump
• Help create five million new jobs by strategically investing $150 billion over the next ten years to catalyze private efforts to build a clean energy future.
• Within 10 years save more oil than we currently import from the Middle East and Venezuela combined
• Put 1 million Plug‐In Hybrid cars – cars that can get up to 150 miles per gallon – on the road by 2015, cars that we will work to make sure are built here in America
• Ensure 10 percent of our electricity comes from renewable sources by 2012, and 25 percent by 2025
• Implement an economy‐wide cap‐and‐trade program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 80 percent by 2050


Here's the boon that the energy people don't want you to hear about.

• Immediately Provide Emergency Energy Rebate. Barack Obama will require oil companies to take a reasonable share of their record‐breaking windfall profits and use it to provide direct relief worth $500 for an individual and $1,000 for a married couple. The relief would be delivered as quickly as possible to help families cope with the rising price of gasoline, food and other
necessities. The rebates would be fully paid for with five years of a windfall profits tax on record oil company profits. This relief would be a down payment on Obama’s long‐term plan to provide middle‐class families with at least $1,000 per year in permanent tax relief. The Obama energy rebates will: offset the entire increase in gas prices for a working family over the next four months; or pay for the entire increase in winter heating bills for a typical family in a cold‐weather state. In addition, Obama has proposed setting aside a portion of a second round of fiscal stimulus to ensure sufficient funding for home heating and weatherization assistance as we move into the fall and winter months


Here's a link to a speech he gives on the subject in Michigan.

Very Strong Talking Points



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by Loki
 



Here's the bottom line on clean energy. McCain proposes a 5,000 tax credit for people who buy a 0 carbon emission car, and skirts every so closely to saying that we'll end our dependency on foreign oil in 2025. The Caveat to this being that, er, well...'Drill, Baby, Drill'

Barrack Obama pledged to end our dependence on middle eastern oil within 10 years, and proposes to federally mandate that 25% of consumed energy in the US comes from renewable 'green' sources. Furthermore he believes drilling in ANWR is nothing more than a stopgap measure.


So McCain gives an example, 5,000 tax credit for people who buy a 0 carbon emission car, of how he will promote the purchase of a clean vehicle and you skirt with pledge of Obamas yet showing know examples of how he will get us off foriegn oil, just unsubstantiated words.

Most on the right agree, drilling is not the long term answer. McCain has also offered to set up an award of several million $(not sure the exact amount) for the inventor of a car battery that meets certain efficiency standards.

I am interested to know how Obama can get us off foriegn oil in 10 years when he is against using the resources we already have. Are you aware that many of the prospective drilling sites along the coasts are international waters? That means Russia, China etc. can also...Who in your opinion will have the high environmental protection standards?



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by Loki
reply to post by mhc_70
 



Stop asking me and read it.

[edit on 9-6-2008 by Loki]


I doubt it will tell me your opinion.

Are you aware that many of the prospective drilling sites along the coasts are international waters?

That means Russia, China etc. can also...Who in your opinion will have the higher environmental protection standards?



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by Loki
reply to post by mhc_70
 


Here are about a dozen links to his energy plan.

my.barackobama.com...
my.barackobama.com...
my.barackobama.com...
my.barackobama.com...
my.barackobama.com...
my.barackobama.com...
my.barackobama.com...
my.barackobama.com...
my.barackobama.com...
my.barackobama.com...
my.barackobama.com...
my.barackobama.com...
my.barackobama.com...


Stop asking me and read it.


Wow, so many promises and plans.

How do we know all these things can/will actually be implemented?

Even if they are, there is still the irony of unforeseen circumstances that will rear its ugly head.

How will these unknowns play into the picture?



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by Alxandro
 


You are right, there are unforeseen circumstances. Barack Obama hasn't planned for those.

But McCain isn't prepared for 4 years of what's going on in the real world. He wants 4 more years to try to keep doing the same stupid crap we've been doing. He is out of touch simply because he is not being realistic. The world is changing and we have to change too.

John S. McCain is incapable of bringing the USA into the future.

He is 72 years old, a cancer survivor, albeit he's in great shape, but he does not represent our country. He could keel over at any time, he's past his expiration date. Do we really want to chance having a hack like Palin in the big chair with the rubber stamp?

Barack Obama represents what this country needs, even if only because he has a forward-mindedness and vision for the future that left John McCain over two decades ago. America needs change and McCain can't see past November. What shall we do?



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by Loki
 


Thats some great rhetoric. You should write speeches for Obama!

The fact is, McCain is going to go after alternative sources, while drilling for the energy source everyday people need now. You cant put wind or solar in their gas tanks, so they can get to work. McCain knows that the more of our own oil we can get, the freer we'll be to start building infrastructure for the next energy source. Whatever the hell that is.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by Loki

 

He is 72 years old, a cancer survivor, albeit he's in great shape, but he does not represent our country. He could keel over at any time, he's past his expiration date. Do we really want to chance having a hack like Palin in the big chair with the rubber stamp?



Same can be said about Obama.
Let's face it, we can debate the inexperience of both Obama and Palin till we are blue in the face, they are both green and easily cancel each other out in that department.

At that point that's when we all have to ask who has better judgment?
That's when we can all agree Palin has a tremendous edge over Obama because his past actions have revealed Obama is only looking out for number one, he'll screw anyone else he can't throw under the bus.

Besides, let's just say something should happen to McCain in two years.
At that point Palin will already have had two years of VP experience.
Having Obama totally green on Day One of his OJT in the White House is much more risky.

I think even you would agree with this.



[edit on 6-9-2008 by Alxandro]



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by Loki
 


Rebuttal:


Barrack Obama pledged to end our dependence on middle eastern oil within 10 years, and proposes to federally mandate that 25% of consumed energy in the US comes from renewable 'green' sources. Furthermore he believes drilling in ANWR is nothing more than a stopgap measure.


What a crock. Did you even read this paragraph? If you did, did you take thime to think about what it says?

I offer these questions:

1. How is Barack Obama going to end dependence on Middle Eastern Oil when he's opposed to drilling domestically? Think about thins one before you hit reply - where is the oil going to come from that he wants to take away? Right now and even within 10 years, we are not ready to take a hit on oil supplies in any way shape or form!

Now if you reply that he isn't going to replace that oil with domestic oil, but with renewable energy, then you've just opened a HUGE debate. The technology for renewable energy isn't efficient enough to justify the cost. Obama is taking a GAMBLE saying that renewable energy will be cost efficient in 10 years - this includes solar, wind, tidal and the rest. Solar power has been around since what, the 50's? And even today, solar panels are no where near efficient enough to justify their cost on a large scale. The same goes with wind farms.

You're supporting a candidate who is admittedly taking a GAMBLE with our energy needs.

2. He wants to end dependency on middle eastern oil. What about ending dependence on oil from Venezuela? That country has no love for us at all. Wouldn't it be beneficial to get off their oil teet?



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 05:46 PM
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As an impartial observer who is enjoying the thread, let me say that the Liberals seem to be establishing their points better so far. Nice, detailed analysis with links.

Entertaining and informative thread. Carry on.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 06:19 PM
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Wow, I agree AS, this is one really interesting thread with a lot of FACTS! But it seems many who are on ATS can't tell the difference between opinions and facts. H-m-m-m

OP you have really done an outstanding job on your unbiased statements and links. Lots of work...I for one appreciate. Thank you.

The debates should make a big difference in opening eyes..Many a doubter here will have questions answered. Those who like "Blood Sport", however, will love Palin, while the more genteel of the candidates may end up looking bad or weak, although this is not the case.

I think we must all remain open-minded until the booth.







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