Jobless Rate, Recession, and Obama

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posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by mister.old.school
Do you have any data to support what appears to be vacuous rhetoric?


Sure, but I doubt you'll read it.

Try this report by Burkhauser, Couch, and Wittenburg. They are from Cornell, U. of Connecticut, and The Urban Institute.

Source

This is a link to a government site on minimum wage. You will see here that most minimum wage workers are under 24 and entry level workers.

Source

And here is a report on the long term negative effects of raising the minimum wage. It's quite an interesting read, imo.

Source

Once you finish up with these I can provide more.



All of the jobs data I've seen indicates the vast majority of those being "laid off" are within the ranks of middle management and skilled workers -- hence job categories well above the minimum wage mark.

Please help us understand your rationale by supplying supporting information, or at least historic comparisons, that substantiate your position.



mister.old.... you must have mistakenly forgotten to provide the links to your sources. I know somebody who is such a stickler for having sources of data wouldn't have done this intentionally. It must have been an oversight on your part.




posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by KaginD

Okay. First of all, I never questioned your educational background (which at the moment seems slim to none) so don't ever question my work history or knowledge of where my money is going.


What are you talking about? Don't ever question your work history? Why?




It seems to me that if anyone questions your reasoning you become very insulting and agitated. Don't post a thread if your going to get upset and insulting if people question it.




Very insulting?? OMG.... what do you consider an insult? I just asked if you had any experience in the real world to understand how much people get paid under the table. This is very insulting to ask? For all I know you could be a college student who never had a job.


And back on topic, can you explain how increasing the minimum wage and increasing corporate taxes will increase jobs?



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by jamie83

And if Obama's plan is so great for businesses, why haven't any big businesses come out and endorsed it?



Now this time, in your own words, try explaining how higher corporate taxes and higher minimum wage is going to create more jobs.



BECAUSE its not designed for big business, it designed for AMERICANS.

BIG business hold no allegiance to the red white an blue.

IF you stimulate the income 200,000,000 million AMERICAN families it will help the economy.

WHO do you think all money eventually goes to anyways?

BIG business.

IF we stimulate the middle and lower class the money is spent at a surer and quicker rate then if it is thrown at a $400,000,000,000.00 operation.

An average family spends 90% of their income every month...

SO lets do the math.

lets say that Obamas plan puts 2,000 into the pockets of 200,000,000 families


thats $400,000,000,000 less the 10% saved ( which would likely be in a bank to help capitalize )

$360,000,000,000 in the market which would be spent - earned by business.

This is just one small front... VOTE OBAMA or PAUL - NO MCPITBULL!



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by mental modulator
THE difference is like school fair and las vegas.




Great comparison. From the moment you walk off a plane in Las Vegas EVERYTHING is designed to remove money from your pockets. It's all smoke and mirrors, misdirections, and style over substance. I think Las Vegas is where styrofoam columns originated.

Repeatedly posting what Obama tells you how much better off you're going to be isn't really adding to the discussing.

So please, stay on topic.

Can you explain how increasing minimum wage and corporate taxes is going to create jobs?



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by jamie83

Originally posted by KaginD

Okay. First of all, I never questioned your educational background (which at the moment seems slim to none) so don't ever question my work history or knowledge of where my money is going.


What are you talking about? Don't ever question your work history? Why?




It seems to me that if anyone questions your reasoning you become very insulting and agitated. Don't post a thread if your going to get upset and insulting if people question it.




Very insulting?? OMG.... what do you consider an insult? I just asked if you had any experience in the real world to understand how much people get paid under the table. This is very insulting to ask? For all I know you could be a college student who never had a job.


And back on topic, can you explain how increasing the minimum wage and increasing corporate taxes will increase jobs?


Jamie, you've got to be kidding me. I asked you to post a source so I can read more into detail about what your thread was referring to. What just happened was you had an opportunity to educate me on a topic about corporate taxes that I don't know much about, and instead you got defensive because I said that all politicians are the same which was my opinion and started questioning me about weather I have worked in the "real world". What this tells me is that you did not post this thread to enlighten people, you posted it to argue. If you actually read my first post, I never said that increasing the minimum wage and increasing taxes would increase jobs. If I did, just quote it and show me because I remember asking for a source and then going on tho say that all politicians were the same and they are turning us against each other. So now, if your done derailing your own thread, can you please explain to me your view on corporate taxes?? That is what you were trying to say, wasn't it?



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by mental modulatorS.

BIG business hold no allegiance to the red white an blue.


Great point. Which is exactly why the U.S. needs to focus on creating an environment that appeals to big business. If the U.S. is friendly towards businesses, the economy will grow.





lets say that Obamas plan puts 2,000 into the pockets of 200,000,000 families

thats $400,000,000,000 less the 10% saved ( which would likely be in a bank to help capitalize )

$360,000,000,000 in the market which would be spent - earned by business.



What are you talking about? Obama is going to put $400 billion into the pockets of 200 million people, who are then going to spend $360 billion that will trickle up to the big businesses?

Where is the $400 billion going to come from?

Here's a newsflash.... no government program and economic plan has ever created wealth.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by jamie83

Originally posted by KaginD



And back on topic, can you explain how increasing the minimum wage and increasing corporate taxes will increase jobs?


Increasin minimum wage stimulates the economy because minimum wage workers typically spend 100% of every pay check...

Where do you thing the money goes Jamie?

WHERE?

A minimum wage work spend the extra $20 buck a month at star bucks, or wal mart
on gas, on bullets to shot themselves... THIS equal income for businesses.

Where is the dis connect?


Republicans have lost your way completely...

FOR all who care about their country here DWIGHT EISHOWER R taxed the top 1%

AT A 90% rate.


THE 50's was a boom time. Republicans used to have it... Not anymore
Just sell our country piece by piece, we will be like MEXICO in ten years.

Jamie this is why MEXICO is so f ed up!



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 10:58 AM
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The economy sucks because of BOTH the democrats AND the Republicans. Laws that produced OSHA, EPA, FDA and USDA regs all cost money. Taxes pay for the government salaries of enforcers and red tape writers. Consumers pay for the hike in the cost of products needed to pay for "improvements" and the "written management policies". If the cost is too high the USA pays the final cost as a bankrupt business or a business that moved overseas. New businesses drown in red tape and 80% die within the first two years.

The only hope is to repeal laws that strangle business not pass new ones.

Niether party is willing to do what needs to be done. Scrap large parts of the Bureaucracy and only keep that which is absolutely necessary. 14% of those employed work for the government only 11% actually produce anything (factory workers, miners, loggers, and farmers).

It is up to the American people to understand this and demand Congress cutback the bureaucracy and start repealing laws. Until that is done we will continue to head for a depression and the death of the USA



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 10:58 AM
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honestly with all the negative posts by jaime, its a wonder why the mods have to post threads telling us to settle down. I have not seen one positive post from jaime. It is allllllll posted to try and tear down Obama.

Lets face it. Both candidates have done more for our country than anyone on this forum. Cept for anyone in the armed forces. These are TWO great Americans. They are putting themselves out there to be torn down by people like jaime, because they BOTH want to help our country back to a better path.

Im so sick of seeing posts describing one of the candidates like they are from the third riche



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by KaginD
Jamie, you've got to be kidding me. I asked you to post a source so I can read more into detail about what your thread was referring to. What just happened was you had an opportunity to educate me on a topic about corporate taxes that I don't know much about, and instead you got defensive because I said that all politicians are the same which was my opinion and started questioning me about weather I have worked in the "real world".


My sincerest apologies for taking your initial post the wrong way. After reading so many personal attacks I lumped your post into the same category.

Likewise, I didn't mean to insult you by asking about your "real world" experience. That came out wrong and could have been worded in a way less offensive to you.

Sorry.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 11:00 AM
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Please...



Discuss the topic and not one another. If you claim that someone else is talking about you... well, the "he started it" routine lost it's appeal in grade school. Display the respect that you seek to receive and we'll all be better for it.

Thank you.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by jamie83

Originally posted by KaginD
Jamie, you've got to be kidding me. I asked you to post a source so I can read more into detail about what your thread was referring to. What just happened was you had an opportunity to educate me on a topic about corporate taxes that I don't know much about, and instead you got defensive because I said that all politicians are the same which was my opinion and started questioning me about weather I have worked in the "real world".


My sincerest apologies for taking your initial post the wrong way. After reading so many personal attacks I lumped your post into the same category.

Likewise, I didn't mean to insult you by asking about your "real world" experience. That came out wrong and could have been worded in a way less offensive to you.

Sorry.



No hard feelings, I just like to gain knowledge on ATS. Thats what I am here for



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by jamie83

Originally posted by mental modulatorS.

BIG business hold no allegiance to the red white an blue.


Great point. Which is exactly why the U.S. needs to focus on creating an environment that appeals to big business. If the U.S. is friendly towards businesses, the economy will grow.





lets say that Obamas plan puts 2,000 into the pockets of 200,000,000 families

thats $400,000,000,000 less the 10% saved ( which would likely be in a bank to help capitalize )

$360,000,000,000 in the market which would be spent - earned by business.



What are you talking about? Obama is going to put $400 billion into the pockets of 200 million people, who are then going to spend $360 billion that will trickle up to the big businesses?

Where is the $400 billion going to come from?

Here's a newsflash.... no government program and economic plan has ever created wealth.


Raising minimum wage and resetting the tax brackets...

Just by raising the minimum wage by one $1 would put $2080.00 - lower/no tax
a year.

EVERY red cent would be injected back into the economy...

A lower tax rate for AMERICANS would provide more money and in the same way
injected back into the economy.

Trickle up works because, money always flows up, think for christ sake!

A hand and mouth person is not going to burn their money - they are going to spend it on a coke, hamburger , dvd....

If someone spend every penny where do you think it goes sir?

Count the $1000.00 tax credit and the money saved via tax rate shifts and the number would be much higher then my estimate of four hundred billion.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by jamie83

Originally posted by mental modulator
THE difference is like school fair and las vegas.




Great comparison. From the moment you walk off a plane in Las Vegas EVERYTHING is designed to remove money from your pockets. It's all smoke and mirrors, misdirections, and style over substance. I think Las Vegas is where styrofoam columns originated.

Repeatedly posting what Obama tells you how much better off you're going to be isn't really adding to the discussing.

So please, stay on topic.

Can you explain how increasing minimum wage and corporate taxes is going to create jobs?



No you have it backwards, VEGAS--- MAKES MONEY, REVENUE & SUPPLIES JOBS...
IT grows at a staggering rate and rich there get richer by the minute.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by bknapple32
honestly with all the negative posts by jaime, its a wonder why the mods have to post threads telling us to settle down. I have not seen one positive post from jaime. It is allllllll posted to try and tear down Obama.

Lets face it. Both candidates have done more for our country than anyone on this forum. Cept for anyone in the armed forces. These are TWO great Americans. They are putting themselves out there to be torn down by people like jaime, because they BOTH want to help our country back to a better path.

Im so sick of seeing posts describing one of the candidates like they are from the third riche


I love how Jamie pops up constantly in your whining, but none of the other constant McCain/Palin bashers come to mind. You guys have no problem when the poop is flying at Republicans, but cry the second it comes back at you.

Believe it or not Jamie doesn't support Obama. Why in the world would he post positive threads about him? Are we here to debate or post threads about how much we love the opposing candidate?


At least Jamie post coherent, readable posts. Unlike posters like Mental Modulator, that have no sentence structure or correct spelling.

[edit on 6-9-2008 by Dronetek]



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by bknapple32
honestly with all the negative posts by jaime, its a wonder why the mods have to post threads telling us to settle down. I have not seen one positive post from jaime. It is allllllll posted to try and tear down Obama.

Lets face it. Both candidates have done more for our country than anyone on this forum. Cept for anyone in the armed forces. These are TWO great Americans. They are putting themselves out there to be torn down by people like jaime, because they BOTH want to help our country back to a better path.

Im so sick of seeing posts describing one of the candidates like they are from the third riche


I appreciate your sentiments. I'm not saying Obama is trying to destroy the country or that he has bad intentions.

I sincerely and passionately feel that his plans are going to hurt the country instead of help the country, and I'm pointing out why I feel that way. Specifically, his plan to the increase minimum wage and corporate taxes in the face of an already weak economy is in my view going to push an already faltering economy over the edge.

Nothing personal here. Nothing attacking anybody. In fact, nothing negative at all. It is what it is. Just because I don't believe what Obama wants me to believe doesn't mean I'm negative. I would say it's more like realistic.

The negative members are the ones who add no substantive points to the discussion and immediately jump in with personal insults.

Why not call them out by name instead of me?



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by KaginD

No hard feelings, I just like to gain knowledge on ATS. Thats what I am here for


Cool. Me too. I really feel bad that I misread the intentions of your original post.

Here's a Wall St. Journal article describing possible consequences of Obama's Patriot Act for businesses.

Source

I also posted some sources for the minimum wage discussion in previous posts.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by mental modulator

Originally posted by jamie83

Originally posted by mental modulator
THE difference is like school fair and las vegas.




Great comparison. From the moment you walk off a plane in Las Vegas EVERYTHING is designed to remove money from your pockets. It's all smoke and mirrors, misdirections, and style over substance. I think Las Vegas is where styrofoam columns originated.

Repeatedly posting what Obama tells you how much better off you're going to be isn't really adding to the discussing.

So please, stay on topic.

Can you explain how increasing minimum wage and corporate taxes is going to create jobs?



No you have it backwards, VEGAS--- MAKES MONEY, REVENUE & SUPPLIES JOBS...
IT grows at a staggering rate and rich there get richer by the minute.



Maybe you have it backwards...America is a free country. Casino's supply an avenue of entertainment that many people enjoy, the evidence for the demand is in the profits. Some have exploited this and made a fortune, so what. Isn't that the goal of all small businesses? Find something that there is a demand for and figure out a way to make a living from supplying it? Thats capitalism in a free society and not everything is peaches and cream.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 12:01 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 12:14 PM
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I would love to help you out with that but will restrain my comments for fear of being banned.

Keep posting Jamie and don't let them intimidate you. I feel exactly the way you do. Although I dont have the data to back it up I can see it everyday everywhere I go and the discussions with people prove your on track.

The fact that we are not in a recession but heading that way is a true statement. People lack understanding because they refuse to open there eyes to the world around them sickens me. Everyone is looking for someone else to blame but themselves..........errr.

I'm overweight I'm suing McDonalds! People need to get a grip!





 
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