What the hell is happening to our kids? Violence at school.

Originally posted by Fury
Because of leave it to beaver.
not everyone becomes a mass murderer, but everyone diciplined with the proper amount of time spent with thier parents isn't .

I mean come on, look at columbine. those parents didn't know their kids were #ing around with guns, and those kids had video tapes.. or checked thier assignments? that writing assignement that one of them made pretty much outlined what they were gonna do.

I don't think you understand the severity in the difference of our up-bringing.

(this was posted earlier by me)

"I grew up watching very violent movies and playing very violent games. I have been a loner my whole life. I got my first gun at 13 and had three by the time I was 15. I was often around drugs and violent people during that time. I was often unsupervised also."

This is just a very very small and brief example of my pre-teen and teen years.

Actually, when I think about it. I was a prime canidate to kill those that I felt have wronged me. I definately had the means and desire. But I didn't...

Originally posted by Jonna

Actually, I just don't want to waste my time trying to discuss things with a brick wall that refused to except that its ego might just be bigger then its intelligence. But feel free to comment on this post as you seem like the type of person that always needs to get the last word in for the sake of feeling superior. Good luck with that.

Indeed i am
my ego is teh freaking huge.
however if you can't defeat ego with fact, then perhaps you may want to practice in the debate forum

Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter


I don't think you understand the severity in the difference of our up-bringing.

(this was posted earlier by me)

"I grew up watching very violent movies and playing very violent games. I have been a loner my whole life. I got my first gun at 13 and had three by the time I was 15. I was often around drugs and violent people during that time. I was often unsupervised also."

This is just a very very small and brief example of my pre-teen and teen years.

Actually, when I think about it. I was a prime canidate to kill those that I felt have wronged me. I definately had the means and desire. But I didn't...

no i agree.
but just because you had a bad child hood does not = that you kill everyone.

but i haven't seen one instance of a child with good parenting that had.

I do commend you for finding the strength within yourself. I would assume you still have issues to contend with.
but in the basis for this discussion that doesn't mean that all badly raised children will grow up murderers.

Thank you for your commendation. I do appreciate that. And yeah, issues are everywhere

But, based on the example I have given. Wouldn't you have to agree that it's not all parenting but also depends on the person/child?

[Edited on 19-3-2004 by Thorfinn Skullsplitter]

I agree that children need disipline. But smacking them is the lazy way out.

When I was young, I was never, ever spanked or hit in any way. Instead, my parents would give me a "time out" and I would go to my room, and my parents would talk to me about why what I did was wrong, and that I would stay in my room until I had thought about it. I had "time outs" up until I was about 6 or 7, and they would last for about 10-15 minutes depending on how little I was. My parents are both extremely against abusing children.

The majority of my friends were spanked and turned out "fine" except that when they get mad, (boys and girls) they have fights, with punching and kicking. I was brought up to always try and work it out with words. (To this day I've never been in a physical fight.) My friends also have very hostile feelings towards their parents. Although they are respectful to their parents' faces, the moment we are behind closed doors, they go off on a rant on how much they hate their parents. They don't have any respect for their parents, just fear, which to their parent's faces, can often be mistaken for respect.

By spanking your children, it COMMANDS respect out of fear. So if your children are about to do something wrong in the future, they may refrain. Not because they know right and wrong, or WHY what they are going to do is bad, but because they are afraid of mommy/daddy hitting them. It also teaches children that the best way to solve problems is through physical means.

Spanking does more then commands respect out of fear.

there are two points here.
one,
there is a LOT more to dicipline then just wooping them on the bottom.
you have to let them know what they did, why it was wrong, that you love them etc, or the main point of spanking is lost.

and that is it places a psychological modifier in the child's behavior.

you cannot attatch that modifier to nothing. more then just the physical act is needed.

Well, If you are giving them MORE than a physical modifier, and that is effective, why is the "physical modifier" needed at all?

Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter

Originally posted by Fury

Thank you for your commendation. I do appreciate that. And yeah, issues are everywhere

But, based on the example I have given. Wouldn't you have to agree that it's not all parenting but also depends on the person/child?

yes i can agree that extra circumstances can play a part.

bad parenting is not only a symptom and a cause in this issue.

Good parenting is the solution.

in extreame cases of abuse by someone other then the parent, not only good parenting, but good counsilling is needed as well.

Originally posted by Brittany
Well, If you are giving them MORE than a physical modifier, and that is effective, why is the "physical modifier" needed at all?

because at early development a child cannot coherantly wrap thier minds around complex concepts, the physical modifier is needed to drill it home psychologically speaking.

I bet you can remember most of your spankings, but not what you did.

the behavior modifier is there, and driven home.

Originally posted by Brittany
Well, If you are giving them MORE than a physical modifier, and that is effective, why is the "physical modifier" needed at all?

Yes. The physical modifier is needed.

Say your kid comes home late one night. Didn't call. Won't tell you were they've been. They have stolen property on them, and tell you to # off on their way to their room.

That little kid would be in for an ass whoopin' in my opinion...

Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter

Originally posted by Brittany
Well, If you are giving them MORE than a physical modifier, and that is effective, why is the "physical modifier" needed at all?

Yes. The physical modifier is needed.

Say your kid comes home late one night. Didn't call. Won't tell you were they've been. They have stolen property on them, and tell you to # off on their way to their room.

That little kid would be in for an ass whoopin' in my opinion...

not only that but take a different situation
child wants to touch a hot stove,
you can tell the child till you're blue in the face, but if he's dedicated, he's either gonna touch it, ooor he's gonna get burned before he learns.

in closing, it's your choice folks,
whoop that kid's ass, or pay lawsuits to dead kid's parents.

I was never spanked.

When I was a baby/toddler, and did something wrong, like say, take a toy away from another child, my parents would use harsher voices (not yelling though, I was little), and return the toy to the other child. They would say, "Brittany, sound-and-so had this toy first. Lets go find another toy for you!" I would cry, because I knew that when my parent's voices were raised, they meant business. (because to me, that meant they were upset and I had done something wrong.)

I was too young to maybe understand the concept, like you said, but the fact that my parents raised their voices, which they don't often do, told me they were upset at me.

*Amendment

But be sure to give them a double dose of love to go with it...

Fury, liberals don't support patting a kid on the head when he gets in trouble, both my parents are liberal and well, I'll never get over my fear of wooden spoons.

Anyways, punishing a kid can help if done right. For some a spanking, other grounded with no tv or radio or computer, or some a good major beating of the behind with a wooden spoon.(I'll never play with a lighter and gasoline in the attic again)

But for the people who blame media and games, well, I am gonna play some Duke Nukem, then go to your house, kill you, then say "I'm sorry, I had no control over my actions, I played a violent video game and it made me kill them." Then when they send me home with a fine I'll sue whoever makes Duke Nukem and live in luxury. Wait, people aren't stupid enough to think violence in tv and games make you violent, well, not the majority, yet.

Sorry, but I played violent video games, read books about jack the Ripper and Albert Fish, watched the movie Dahmer about Jeffery Lionel Dahmer(sick!), watched violent tv, own guns, knives, a machette, and even a short sword, yet haven't killed anyone. I got in a couple fights at school sure, but never took a gun or sword. I knew how to shoot a gun since I was 8, I have hunted, I have done target shooting, yet I don't go into school and shoot all the annoying white kids who think they black. I can hit a deer from 40 yards with a shotgun, yet haven't shot the dyke teacher that failed me forcing me to take math in the summer. I would, but wait, I know doing that is, guess what? WRONG!

Also, saying kids shouldn't be exposed, well, my cousin plays GTA, Max Payne, State of Emergency(GTA with no missions), Driver, stuff like that, and he not even a teen yet. He played games as a kid that my mother would get the spoon out if I even talked about them, but he isn't violent. Hell, he won't hunt cause it hurts the animals. He also a vegetarian, so get to make fun of him for it. He also great in paintball, little bugger practices more than me. But he doesn't go into school shooting people.

Then, in inner city schools, this happens weekly. It only makes the news when it happens to white kids. Kind of hypocritical.

Also, someone brought Japanese Anime. Look at Japan, are they little psycho killers? NO! Also, the stuff you see in America is edited, and about 70% less violent than it is in Japan. I have originals from Japan, and watched the American version of Rouroni Kenshin, Wandering Samuri, sorry, I was amazed that, same episode, have the dialouge and about a third of the violence/fighting. Then with Inyuyasha, about the same thing, except the Inyuyasha from Japan is about 200% more violent/anguage. Yet the Japanes kids don't go out killing people left and right, even though the media is far more violent.

Why is this? Could it be they are statistically known to spend more time with family? Is it because they are taught that violence is good, if it is fake like on tv or games. or is it because, with my theory, that asians are more evolved than whites. I know I will take heat for that, but hey, aisans smaller, and generally more intellegant, whites are a little bigger, but not as smart generally, hipanics are little bit bigger than whites, but generally not as smart, and blacks are bigger than all of them and generally not the smartest. Now there are exceptions to every rules, like Einstein was white, Eddie Murphy is black, Santana is hispanic, and they are all really incredibally smart. While the white ghetto kids at school have smoked themselves stupid, Mendoza is a GPA honor roll student(hispanic if you didn't know by his name) and T.J.(black) is I think 4th, maybe 5th in the school, while Lesely(South Korean) is a dolt.

Anyways, I have to pick dog crap out of the side yard, so I will be back when I am, bye everybody.

That's what makes for different type of people, Britanny.

I've known some kids that didn't need physical punishment, because they are tender hearted. Raising your voice was enough. Yelling was the equivalent to hitting.

Like I said. It depends upon the child. There is not one size fits all way to raise a child...

Originally posted by Brittany
I was never spanked.

When I was a baby/toddler, and did something wrong, like say, take a toy away from another child, my parents would use harsher voices (not yelling though, I was little), and return the toy to the other child. They would say, "Brittany, sound-and-so had this toy first. Lets go find another toy for you!" I would cry, because I knew that when my parent's voices were raised, they meant business. (because to me, that meant they were upset and I had done something wrong.)

I was too young to maybe understand the concept, like you said, but the fact that my parents raised their voices, which they don't often do, told me they were upset at me.

I wouldn't stop at harsh voices,
hell, i was pure hell.
depends on the child yes.
maybe you were inherantly good.

Originally posted by intrepid
His intention was to hurt everyone exept for his three friends.

At least he had friends.

_______________________

Seriously though, I think violence begins at home. Kids learn by example. If they are smacked around and exposed to it at an early age, they emulate it when they play, and think it's normal as they grow older.

Oh, and someone said something about what would parents do when you kid comes home late, and doesnt call, ect.

Well, hopefully the child respects their parents enough to never be in that situation.

I have been in that situation once, though. I was at a party, and lost track of time. I got a ride home, and got there at 2 in the morning. My parents were NOT impressed. But since I had never done that before (I'm normaly pretty responsible), my parents figured it was just a lapse of judgement. I wasn't harshly punished, I just wasn't able to go to the next party.

Well, whenI was young I wouldn't say I was a joy. I was extremely bright, so my curiousity tended to get me into trouble.

You say it depends on the child? Well, my friend Renae has 9 brothers and sisters. (yes, 10 kids in all!) and NONE of them were spanked. They basically were raised in the same manner I was. Were the parents for some reason lucky enough to have 10 well mannered babies? No, they just took alot of extra time and energy to put into raising their children non-violently.