AP: Stocks plummet (9/4)

Stocks Plummet after retail, unemployment data

Wall Street dived sharply lower Thursday, sending the Dow Jones industrials down over 300 points as retailers and the Labor Department added to the mountain of dismal economic news that has all but dashed investors' hopes for a late-year recovery.

In midafternoon trading, the Dow Jones industrial average fell 309.23, or 2.68 percent, to 11,223.65.

I came across this by chance just a little while ago, but I'm not very knowledgeable about the markets, so I was hoping you guys could provide some commentary. Is this in keeping with what we've been hearing here about the state of the economy? I know it's bad, but is it anything new?

Mods: Apologies for the minimal post, I wanted some commentary on this and don't have much knowledge in the area.

I had CNBC on all day. Every once on a while I glanced to the TV to see what the stocks were at and it was not good news. It has a lot to do with Boeing. I think I heard something about them going on strike. Then I heard them say that the Job reports came in and it wasn't to good either. If I'm wrong, please correct me. Like I said, I had it on as background noise and I could have misheard what they were saying because my son was a handful today.. I hope tomorrow is better.

Just back to your regularly scheduled Bear Market. Bear markets are insidious in that they inflict maximum pain to everyone Bulls and Bears. Just when you think the bottom is in and it's time to dip your feet back in, boom sharp decline. Just when you switch your normal long only investment strategy to having some short plays (shorts, puts, inverse etfs) Boom Bear market rally. The best place to be if you don't have time to actively trade is parked somewhere safe like Treasuries. If you have a really long investment/retirement horizon, it's probably ok to be in the market right now as long as you realize it may be a while before investments you have are back above water. If what's gong on in the markets is keeping you up with worry, you should've been out months ago.

reply to post by EtSolveMundi


Thanks for the information I guess with all the political rambling people are not paying attention of what is going on with the nations economical health.

I posted on another thread the pre view of the third quarter figures that already were no looking good, that was about a few days ago.

Yes the stimulus checks has gone dry and so the pockets of the unemployment in this nation.

Sad that the numbers do not represent the overall unemployment because it doesn't included the people that already depleted their unemployment benefits and those that never qualify for them.

So actually the numbers are a lot higher.

If it's any consolation the markets have already been lower this year. Still, this is the fourth largest decline of the year, so it hurts quite a bit.

Word on the street is that foriegn banks are raising margin requiremnts and putting the hard squeeze on the American banks. Bill Gross the largest bond buyer in the world came out and said that he would no longer buy the bonds from American Banks and Financial companies including Fannie and Freddie.

Looks like we are moving toward to a cash only society as credit is harder and harder to come by.

Lack of compliance with Basel II could be the underlying reason. Everyone owes everyone and no one has any money to pay.

NESARA, while most feelis a kooky idea, may be the only way to save our once great nation.

One of the things that gets to me all the time is the people that are still falling flat on their butts arguing that America is doing fine and we are growing.

yes corporate America that has moved out of the US and into China are growing, but the regular Americans are suffering.

Originally posted by disgustedbyhumanity
NESARA, while most feelis a kooky idea, may be the only way to save our once great nation.

Sounds like a great idea, they forgot one small detail though. Most Americans are illiterate morons. They won't understand NESARA.

You need to dumb it down a little. (i.e. Rich people bad, Poor people good)

[edit on 4-9-2008 by In nothing we trust]

It never fails....let the Stock Market have a bad day, and we are in a "Global Meltdown", and the sky is falling.

What a day like this means to alot of investors is there should be some bargins on the market for tomorrow. I'm betting savy investors put more money in the market tomorrow and the DOW has a positive day. No one will notice though, because nobody posts good news when the DOW goes up.

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity


DBH said

Bill Gross the largest bond buyer in the world came out and said that he would no longer buy the bonds from American Banks and Financial companies including Fannie and Freddie.

That's not quite all Mr. Gross has had to say today.
From Bloomberg

The U.S. government needs to start buying assets to stem a bourgeoning ``financial tsunami,'' according to Bill Gross, manager of the world's biggest bond fund.

Mr. Gross has been buying such wonderfully sound assetts like GSE paper, CDOs, MBS's, and probably lots of other crap. He kept buying even after the problems in housing, sub-prime, and GSEs were being talked about in the MSM. As the worlds largest bond fund manager, he should have known damn well what he was risking. He was buying this because he was betting on the crap he was buying being "bailed out by the taxpayer".

Minyanville has a wonderfully irreverent article about what Mr. Gross is really trying to do.

If I was doomed to work in the Federal Reserve, or if I managed the world's largest bond fund, I'd be scared too.
SNIP
Today, Gross let the freak out. And the plan is simply to open up the government's balance sheet to the beast... at all costs.

Mr. Gross is one of the worst about talking his book on TV. Now he wants you to bail him out of his horrible bet.

[edit on 4-9-2008 by jefwane]

Originally posted by RRconservative
It never fails....let the Stock Market have a bad day, and we are in a "Global Meltdown", and the sky is falling.

What a day like this means to alot of investors is there should be some bargins on the market for tomorrow. I'm betting savy investors put more money in the market tomorrow and the DOW has a positive day. No one will notice though, because nobody posts good news when the DOW goes up.

Yes, and no..

Big down days are bad for those who owned the stock, good for those who did not. For instance, I live entirely off investments right now, and let me tell you when I bought Fannie Mae (because MyBigUnit kept talking about getting into financial and I thought wtf not) at $5.45 I managed to get it off enough at $7.35 to cover all my initial investment and will let the rest grow. OF course, this is hoping I bought at the absolute lowest, and that the Gov won't federalize the company and they won't let the company collapse. I feel it's safe enough.. though honestly I don't really care because I already have my money back.

However, playing games like that does not reflect the health of the economy.. I could ride the waves all day, and I could accumulate a massive portfolio doing it (that is my objective here) but does it really reflect the economy?

No, it does not..

But yes, I would expect a positive day tomorrow, I would expect a negative final for the week though. If we follow the trends, we have seen positive for a while, I honest to God believe we will finally see the DOW dip below 10,999 for the first time and close.

Those who say we are not in a recession, it's only a matter of time.

And some states already ARE in a recession.

www.bea.gov...

Here are some numbers on 2007.





Of course this is 2007, as we know, the economy has slowed even more. Though I believe it is important to note the massive decline in just a few months.. I mean, look at Arizona, it's like someone pulled the emergency brakes on the economy.

There is no hard data for states GDP and Per Capita Income in 2008 yet available, the next report comes out next February but I believe we will see many states in negative GDP area, with states like Oregon, Washington, California, Delaware, Rhode Island and so on, propping up the other state's decreased GDP.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I mean, look at Arizona, it's like someone pulled the emergency brakes on the economy.

I can tell you first hand that the economy in Arizona sucks and it's getting worse.

I believe that the Great Depression started with a housing boom and then a bust in florida, which spread to other states.

80 years later - Nevada, Arizona, California, Florida = Housing Bust

Of course this one was helped along by interest rate manipulation following 9/11, liberal (another word for fraud) lending practices, a never ending war and higher gas prices. The perfect storm which will end with ...


[edit on 5-9-2008 by In nothing we trust]

Hmm, I haven't been following the specific financials, but this makes me wonder:

Does the 'Plunge Protection Team' take the day off when, like today, there's sufficient 'major news' that such market fluctuation wouldn't be the top news story?

There's a lot to be said for market inertia, driven by mass perception. It would be interesting to correlate 'big news' days, with 'negative financial' days, with actual market performance, see if there are any interesting patterns.

Originally posted by Ian McLean
It would be interesting to correlate 'big news' days, with 'negative financial' days, with actual market performance, see if there are any interesting patterns.

Negative news does affect people. Very negative news causes people to stop spending money. They get insecure and indecisive with thier money.

Why else do you think they manipulate governmant data and the major media outlets?

It's damage control. The problem is it's damage control all the time now. It's all lies, all the time.

[edit on 5-9-2008 by In nothing we trust]

Time To Diversify

Even if you are living paycheck to paycheck, make sure you've got at least two bank accounts, in completely seperate banks. More local banks/credit unions are failing than you realize; they don't put a sign in the window that says 'under government receivership'. The tellers will open someone a new account and not tell them the bank is under receivership, while you are at the next window taking your money out because you got the news that the bank had failed. You have to research your bank's financial health, and have a backup account in a different instiution or you could be unable to access your funds to pay bills and survive.

Sure there's insurance. We all know how quick insurance helps when things go wrong- remember your last car accident?

Be smart. Have a Plan B up and running before your S&L/CU/Bank takes the big dump.

I am speaking from experience, guys.

If you look at the recent gains, you are always bound to get a bit of a fall.
Because profits are being taken and when everyone sells at once....
Combined with the news and the scare tactics manipulation in it.
Its not surprising.

It's all a scam to control your minds. I think we'd all do well as a group...all of ATS.... let's all start our own commune in the middle of America where money doesn't exist, and you get exactly what you need as long as you contribute. When the government comes, declares us a dangerous cult, and firebombs our complex, killing all of us inside... I guess we'll be forgotten, but that's okay. We won't care if we're dead.