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For those of you who believe in a Masonic conspiracy

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posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by GodshipForAll
Yes maybe it is to you it's just me addressing the level of masons that most are. The ones with real power wouldn't be here on ATS. I don't like freemasons and am not here to persuade or influence them.... I'm going to dedicate a portion of my life advocating such groups be disbanded. We all have commonalities as living humans, fact. No matter where we are or what group we are in. I intend to comprehend and elaborate more on what we have in common in our basics needs and to emphasize unity through those. Start from scratch again because this world "plan" of ours is chaos...... and I'm believing purposefully.


I guess what I've never gotten is whether anti-Masons as a group could possibly get together and agree on what level the "real power" begins in Freemasonry. I mean, we have this nebulous, ill-defined term that gets bandied about with no attempt at defining it. As far as Freemasonry is concerned, you want to disband something which you clearly are ill-informed about for the apparent reason that you simply don't believe that men who won't spill their guts to you are trustworthy. Might I suggest you take a street survey of men in your city/town and ask them to tell you about everything (and I do mean EVERYTHING) that they do, feel and think and then come back here and let us know just what percentage actually indulged you?

You seem to be of the opinion that Masons feel themselves superior to non-Masons and I'm quite sure that no amount of assurance from this quarter that such is not the case would satisfy your desire to drag them down to the level at which you feel they should reside.




posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 08:12 PM
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www.youtube.com...
Here's some of the "creatures" adorning the parliament building.

Here's Alex Jones take on the building..... I imagine you guys despise Alex Jones but perhaps clarify for me any mistakes....I'm not taking his word on these it's just good video of close ups of the creatures.
www.youtube.com...

I feel he's wrong on the unicorn, But the queen of england does reign supreme, it's in our constitution. What's the queen and king affiliated with? prince charles?...I wonder.

anyways ya Im over it.
I'm glad to see your membership declining as I thought. I know none of my generation and friends interested in joining it.



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 08:38 PM
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You seem to be of the opinion that Masons feel themselves superior to non-Masons and I'm quite sure that no amount of assurance from this quarter that such is not the case would satisfy your desire to drag them down to the level at which you feel they should reside.


I'm of the opinion that the Head Masons the ones on the tip top of all your degrees and whatever else you define your status and levels, perhaps think they are superior to men because of their roots in Freemasonry and the brotherhood , and I wish dragging none down, just remove the secret societies. No levels or degrees of people, all one level one class.

What's any man involved in a secret society away from full disclosure of the public eye and scrutiny doing running a country? A country of supposed free and independent?

The public and the "anti-masons" or even the anti-secret society types........ won't know of the where the true power starts in masonry where not being allowed in as independent from the society to investigate potential wrong doings through their closed door collaborations. Im not speaking of the local chapter discussing wing night and raising money for a wheelchair. I'm talking of the masons Who own Multi-billion dollar companies, Who are royalty, Presidents, Prime ministers, Generals, Media Barons etc etc........


Please watch this google video on former president of America John F. Kennedys speech on secret societies and tell me your thoughts. Some say the man was killed because of this.....and his intentions....some say...
video.google.com...



[edit on 5-9-2008 by GodshipForAll]



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by Mason mike
 


No these guys were masons. Trust me, they proved their status. I think they just were a little loose lipped because they'd had a few beers.



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by GodshipForAll
Ya singular because I'm referring to one example of the many in my town..
he runs and operates the Exxon gas station......they're take it easy can you sleep now..thanks for picking apart my #ty grammar you should be an english teacher very observant.... jesus.


Please elaborate further on these other 'Mason run corporations' as the local Exxon-Mobil franchisee does not constitute a 'major corporation'. Your grammar has nothing to do with me analizing your statements, your nebeulous accusations is the sole causation for this line of questioning. You repeatedly aver to Masons running major corporations in your locale. By your logic if a Mason happens to run/operate/own the local service station the entire company is somehow Masonically affiliated, this is a rather large, and incorrect, jump in assumption.


yes, or you wouldn't be allowed restricted membership through gender, education and age etc. Why should people be restricted and any secrets withheld from everyone or anyone. I know todays world the powers of affiliations are surely going to withhold truths of their knowledge, proceedings and agendas from other affiliations. I'm thinking ultruistic in a fresh start without these "affiliations".......Where I'm getting at theres so many problems we need to dedicate our time in addressing locally then worldwide. There's perhaps a time and place for boys and girl clubs Sadly not now only in my opinion of course.


The only thing that is sad in your statement is that you espouse Fascism. Anyone who has a differing desire to become a member of any organization that you would hypothetically outlaw does not have a valid claim to do so under your totalitarianisitic viewpoint. Your ultruistic(sic) stance is very far from being such and instead relagates free choice to a singular option.....yours.


Awesome for you, I just volunteer through city hall as a public citizen when clean up projects are held or fund raisers. I didn't imply that masons thought themselves better for doing their charities, I was implying you don't need to be one to accomplish the same goals.


Whether you implied such or not, your statement had very little room for misinterpertation. Your sarcasm is duly noted as well.


And sure Porch masons fund raise for their communities and oh ya so good...


Inquire as to the recipients and their opinions as to whether they are as flippant as you as to the benefit of these works.


Yes maybe it is to you it's just me addressing the level of masons that most are. The ones with real power wouldn't be here on ATS.


None of us, and I mean all Masons, perport to have any 'power', regardless if we post on AboveTopSecret or not.


I don't like freemasons


This was readily apparent before you stated this, no further clarfication is needed. I have no animosity towards anyone for something as innocous as their fraternal affilations, but then again, I tend to be very accepting of my fellow man until proven otherwise.


I'm going to dedicate a portion of my life advocating such groups be disbanded.


You will then find yourself in rather infamous company. There were several notable tyrants who felt the same as you do, sadly they were able to fulfill their aspirations for a time before history relagated them to the pantheon of failed societies. Freemasonry, notwithstanding, has survived to bring Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth to those who will have such.

[edit on 6-9-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by GodshipForAll
www.youtube.com...
Here's some of the "creatures" adorning the parliament building.


I found nothing Masonic in the carvings depicted in the video you linked. Which ones do you feel are somehow 'Masonic'?



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Well seeing how it was designed built by Masons I figure it's masonic. At least Negative or Demonic in nature the creatures are......why not adorn the Publics house of Government and not the Masons house with butterflys and and bunny rabbits and ladybugs and doves and positive symbols..

What about Alex jones opinion on it? and JfKs Speech?

Exxon wasn't started from a Rockfeller ?



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


There no debate for me I don't like Freemason it doesn't mean I don't like people. I don't like any secret order of any kind.

I think JFK's speech sums it up for me thoughts on that?



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 11:53 PM
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Enjoy your masonic bubble.........

See so please keep informing me if you have nothing to hide whats with the Secrets?



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by GodshipForAll
Well seeing how it was designed built by Masons I figure it's masonic.
Where'd you hear that? Jones?

At least Negative or Demonic in nature the creatures are......why not adorn the Publics house of Government and not the Masons house with butterflys and and bunny rabbits and ladybugs and doves and positive symbols..

What about Alex jones opinion on it?
I realize that as a community college drop-out, Jones probably never took an art history course, but there's nothing occult about gargoyles or heraldry. Both predate Masonry by centuries.

and JfKs Speech?
Well, it would help if the video you linked to was actually JFK's speech. But the video you linked to has been edited to make the subject of his speech more ambiguous. The full text is here. Whoever posted that version on YouTube took out whole paragraphs. He was talking about freedom of the press in times of war. Read the full text, or &type=Audio]listen to it unedited, if you'd prefer.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by GodshipForAll
Yes maybe it is to you it's just me addressing the level of masons that most are. The ones with real power wouldn't be here on ATS. I don't like freemasons and am not here to persuade or influence them.... I'm going to dedicate a portion of my life advocating such groups be disbanded. We all have commonalities as living humans, fact. No matter where we are or what group we are in. I intend to comprehend and elaborate more on what we have in common in our basics needs and to emphasize unity through those. Start from scratch again because this world "plan" of ours is chaos...... and I'm believing purposefully.


I'm not quite so sure why this made me register and respond to this after years of lurking, but it did. I rarely even lurk on this forum...

After reading this thread, you seem to be "against" masonry because it does not fit with how you believe the world should be. A world without boundaries or borders, a utopian vision that is the fantasy of many but a reality that few really want (are you willing to divulge all your secrets..ALL OF THEM? No. Most people aren't willing either. Some things are supposed to be private).

Certainly masonry is not for everyone - or even for most. That I think no one disagrees on. But just because an organization does not fit with how you would like the world to be is not a reason to advocate against it. I passionately disagree with lots of things - societal structures, ideologies, political points of view, etc. - but I would never advocate to stop any of them. Because while I disagree with them, they have a right to exist.

You may want to '"start from scratch" - but what happens when other people don't want to? You speak of a "free society", and yet it is your deepest desire to enforce your will upon everyone else by forcing them to conform to how you believe world should be. And, perhaps most paradoxically, you spend most of this energy for a "new world" decrying an organization that is perhaps most well known for tolerance and letting other people have freedom - of religion, of ideology, and everything else.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 04:02 AM
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Where'd you hear that? Jones?

No, I looked it up, you can to if you choose.


I realize that as a community college drop-out, Jones probably never took an art history course, but there's nothing occult about gargoyles or heraldry. Both predate Masonry by centuries.

I saw more than just gargoyles. Where did masonries roots come from and how old are they? When and where were they established? so maybe I can determine that. As for heraldry....yes the British coat and French coat of arms... British royalty, the queen, prince Philip, prince Charles their cousins and etc...... what groups are they affiliated with I wonder? Well I don't wonder really.



Well, it would help if the video you linked to was actually JFK's speech. But the video you linked to has been edited to make the subject of his speech more ambiguous.

Ya I've read and watched both un-edited and edited
versions. Ok so if he was talking about freedom of the press in war times, then what and whom was oppressing them? Whom was found out to be funding and backing both sides of the war now? Who was being and what groups where being exposed. These men weren't affiliated with any sort of secret society now were they?....And theres more secret societies than freemasons I know.


The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment. That I do not intend to permit to the extent that it’s in my control. And no official of my Administration, whether his rank is high or low, civilian or military, should interpret my words here tonight as an excuse to censor the news, to stifle dissent, to cover up our mistakes or to withhold from the press and the public the facts they deserve to know.


Whats your take on this?



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 04:22 AM
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you seem to be "against" masonry because it does not fit with how you believe the world should be.

Not just masonry all secret secret societies. Knights of the Golden Eagle, Knights of Pythias, Catholic Knights, National Ancient Order of Hibernians, Rosicrucians, Knights of the Golden Circle, the Bohemian Club, the Bilderberg group, the Priory of Zion (or Sion), the Round Table Groups, the Council On Foreign Relations, the Skull and Bones, the council of 300 and the Carbonari.


(are you willing to divulge all your secrets..ALL OF THEM? No. Most people aren't willing either. Some things are supposed to be private).

Yes, ask me anything I have no secrets. Thing is people respect privacy not secrecy there is a difference.


Certainly masonry is not for everyone - or even for most. That I think no one disagrees on. But just because an organization does not fit with how you would like the world to be is not a reason to advocate against it. I passionately disagree with lots of things - societal structures, ideologies, political points of view, etc. - but I would never advocate to stop any of them. Because while I disagree with them, they have a right to exist.


Just as much as they have the right not to exist. Utopia in my opinion is achievable anythings possible man have faith in humanity. I just believe one of the problems from achieving utopia is Secret societies.

And perhaps this is why wars are fought over ideologies.......you ideal to keep secrets and to fight for it....I ideal against it........Once certain factors are removed either forcefully or peacefully the idea can be achieved...
To go about it is the question. Does the end justify the means....in the case of Utopia I'll fight for it and against what I think may be impeding such a dream.


You may want to '"start from scratch" - but what happens when other people don't want to? You speak of a "free society", and yet it is your deepest desire to enforce your will upon everyone else by forcing them to conform to how you believe world should be. And, perhaps most paradoxically, you spend most of this energy for a "new world" decrying an organization that is perhaps most well known for tolerance and letting other people have freedom - of religion, of ideology, and everything else.


Not an organization, organizations. When other people don't want to I suppose you try to change their minds . Put forward a coherent plan that shows how to achieve it. What ways to live our lives in respect to whats necessary in to achieve productive sustainable civilization. We are to indulgent in the North America and Most of Europe. For the rest of the Worlds population to live like we do would take another estimated 5 planet Earths. Our resources are being consumed faster than their rate of reproduction.

So start from scratch. I think of Earth in the shape and perils it's in along with us as a crashed airplane. What do the survivors do? They delegate amongst themselves who's best suited to the tasks as surviving together. Need people to medicate the sick and injured, peoples to forage for foods, medicinals and materials for shelter. Peoples to clean up any parts of the wreckage thats toxic or a potential hazard ...etc ...... Not people to say Give me 5 mins Im gonna go have a Secret chat with buddy or just a lil secret meeting.

If Freemasonry Has Ideas on how to make the world a better Place why not publicly disclose them so the public can address the idea and deem it worthy.

Now I know the public these days are dumbed down for the majority no thanks to MSM. But we all have a right to know each others intentions if its going to affect the herd and have an impact on our society.

And freedom is a loose word. How free is free, free to dump chemicals in oceans. Free to oppress Secret societies? Free to have them flourish? Free to lay devastation to a forest so people can wipe their butt?
[edit on 6-9-2008 by GodshipF

[edit on 6-9-2008 by GodshipForAll]



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by GodshipForAll
 


You should look into some historical folks like Adolf Hitler, Karl Marx, Joseph Stalin and see if your ideas arent more in line with the way they think. Impose your will on the masses because you think it's the right thing to do. Kill all the jews because you think they are up to something, kill all the black folks because they look different. Your ideas are much in line with this. If that is the type of world leaders you wish to emulate, you are well on your way.
Your utopia is a totolitarian government rulled by one. Not my idea of a good time. Enjoy.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by GodshipForAll

Where'd you hear that? Jones?

No, I looked it up, you can to if you choose.
I am. And not finding anything. Perhaps you could share your source?

The bit I AM finding says

The winning architects - Thomas Fuller, Chilion Jones, Frederick Stent, and Augustus Laver - chose 'Civil Gothic' as the style most adapted to the special challenges of the site, poised as it was between the wild escarpment on one side and the ordered urban core on the other. According to the architects, the Civil Gothic style allowed the scenery from the river to be of the "boldest and grandest character" while that from Wellington Street would be "more park like."

This was not the careful, archaeologically correct English Gothic of Westminster, completed just a few years earlier. This was a much more flamboyant Gothic which drew on the traditions of Italy and France and northern Europe. As historian Victoria Angel has noted, the architects were young radicals who had come under the influence of the great critic and theorist John Ruskin. He had urged the development of a new more vibrant Gothic, emphasizing the decorative and picturesque qualities of the building, and the importance of richly patterned materials. Frederick Rubridge and Samuel Keefer, the young administrators of the project, encouraged these tendencies.
www.parliamenthill.gc.ca...



I saw more than just gargoyles.
You saw what you wanted to see.

Where did masonries roots come from and how old are they? When and where were they established? so maybe I can determine that.
Freemasonry as we know it? 1717, London.

As for heraldry....yes the British coat and French coat of arms... British royalty, the queen, prince Philip, prince Charles their cousins and etc...... what groups are they affiliated with I wonder? Well I don't wonder really.
I wonder, because they're certainly not Masons!



Ya I've read and watched both un-edited and edited
versions.
So in trying to defend your stance you link to the one that's INTENTIONALLY misleading? Bad choice.

Ok so if he was talking about freedom of the press in war times, then what and whom was oppressing them? Whom was found out to be funding and backing both sides of the war now? Who was being and what groups where being exposed. These men weren't affiliated with any sort of secret society now were they?....And theres more secret societies than freemasons I know.
Um, Communism? The speech was a year before the Cuban Missile Crisis, but Joseph McCarthy's fear that Communism was everywhere dates back a decade prior and that fear and feeling certainly hadn't dissipated by the time JFK was in office.


The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment. That I do not intend to permit to the extent that it’s in my control. And no official of my Administration, whether his rank is high or low, civilian or military, should interpret my words here tonight as an excuse to censor the news, to stifle dissent, to cover up our mistakes or to withhold from the press and the public the facts they deserve to know.


Whats your take on this?
Read the whole speech again. He's clearly talking about Communism and the Cold War. Taking bits out of context doesn't change the rest of what he said, no matter how many times you do it.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 03:37 PM
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Whatevs, boys, enjoy your club I'm glads to see your membership decline.

And Prince Philip and Prince Charles as well as some of their cousins are Masons.

con·spir·a·cy (kn-spîr-s)
n. pl. con·spir·a·cies
1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design:

So in in that, in Canada seeing how 30% of your Prime ministers have Been confirmed masons, possibly more, I do believe there's a Conspiracy involved.
But how is the public supposed to know of your Leaders actions and intents if he spends time in Secret Society, with closed door to the publics eye and scrutiny.

This could go on forever......back and fourth....except the people I see around me..meet at bars, clubs, parks, the gym....are all now becoming aware of Secret societies in general, the members and the positions of power they hold in high civilian and high governmental and high military rankings. They are not impressed by any means from whom I've met.

Adolf Hitler eh....wow who was he funded by I wonder, if any of these men where involved in any sort of Secret Societies.


Enjoy Friday the 13th.

Jfk's speach wow I guess the part Where he mentions secret societies, secret oaths, and secret proceedings mean nothing about...secret societies.

Enjoy your declining Memberhsip.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by GodshipForAll
Well seeing how it was designed built by Masons I figure it's masonic.


I found no evidence that the original architects of Parliament Hill, Thomas Fuller and Chilion Jones, were Masons. Nor did I find any evidence that John Pearson and Jean Omer Marchand, the gentlemen who were responsible for the rebuilding of Parliament after the 1916 fire that destryoed much it were Masons as well. Perhaps you can direct me to where you supposedly found information linking them with the Fraternity?


At least Negative or Demonic in nature the creatures are......why not adorn the Publics house of Government and not the Masons house with butterflys and and bunny rabbits and ladybugs and doves and positive symbols..


Because it then would no longer be a structure designed in the Neo-Gothic style, I thought that would be quite obvious.


What about Alex jones opinion on it? and JfKs Speech?


As JoshNorton has pointed out, you conveniently took President Kennedy's speech out of context to support you assertions.


Exxon wasn't started from a Rockfeller ?


Can you please show me where you determined that John Davison Rockefeller was a Mason? Nor is Exxon-Mobil a 'Masonically run corporation' as you seem to think. Not unless you are under the delusion that Barclay's, Vanguard, State Street and Bank of America (all major institutional shareholders) are also 'Masonically run'. Nor is their any evidence that proves Rex Tillerson, Stuart McGill, Stephen Simon or Harold Cramer (the largest single shareholders of Exxon-Mobil) are Freemasons.

It would appear that research is not your forte but making unsubstantiated assertions is your specialty.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by GodshipForAllEnjoy your declining Memberhsip.


Actually, in my State, New Jersey, membership has been increasing for the past three years. There is most certainly a renewed interest in Freemasonry, not just where I live, but in other parts of the country. I suppose it was too difficult for you to look that up as well........

[edit on 6-9-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on Sep, 7 2008 @ 12:35 AM
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My apologies for claiming Exxon mobil as a masonic run corporation. I assumed members of Bilderbergs and the CFR and Trilateral Commission have masonic ties. I apologize.

As to JFK's speech in what context was he referring to about secret societies, secret oaths and secret proceedings? In your opinion please.

About the people who funded and backed Adolf Hitler? They don't have associations with secret societies?

The royalty of england the Prince Philip, Prince Charles? They are not masons?( Next in line to the throne which still controls Canada and many other commonwealth countries)

con·spir·a·cy (kn-spîr-s)
n. pl. con·spir·a·cies
1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design:

So in that, seeing how in Canada 30% of our Prime ministers have been confirmed masons, possibly more, I do believe there's a conspiracy involved.
But how is the public supposed to know of our Leaders actions and intents if he spends time in a secret society, with closed door to the publics eye and scrutiny.

As for member ship decline, I used the link you provided me earlier....when I asked about your membership statistics, it.s on page two of this thread. thanks for that link.

Here some links and some are from a masonic site I think they're masonic.
www.msana.com...
www.msana.com...
www.freemasoninformation.com...
masonicline.blogspot.com...

Enjoy the decline in membership........Also loving the commercial I see on t.v. now you guys have on.....and those movies in Hollywood. Smart tactics to renew interests in a dwindling fraternity.

Enjoy your masonic bubbles.





[edit on 7-9-2008 by GodshipForAll]

[edit on 7-9-2008 by GodshipForAll]



posted on Sep, 7 2008 @ 12:51 AM
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Now what about a compromise?........

Freemasons or any member of a secret society should have no part in public affairs such as the governing, delegating, scripting of laws and any influence on a nation if he resides in secret meetings. Meetings that deny access to the press and journalists. Blocks public inquiry, insights and scrutiny. How can we assess the true nature an intentions of our leaders if they attend such secret societies, secret proceedings, secret oaths, and perhaps secret alliances and allegiances.

The citizens have a right to know. Unless you choose to refrain from such positions.



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