Hoodies, hats banned from shops

Originally posted by feydrautha

Originally posted by Spock Shock

are you using the spock avatar ironically?

Awesome.

I don't like people to invade my privacy, so i dont invade others. As to judge people just for what they wear is wrong.

We all no that it is these hoddies that commit the biggest part of crimes, you cant do anything about it. The clothing companies will continue to make these top as its a good market for making money. They no people will buy them so you cant ban them from being made

it seems you guys are trying to correlate hoodies with crime. I have a feeling that crime will exist, no matter what the current fashion trend is. Until you eliminate the cause for crime (mainly poverty and poor education), it will not go away. You can ban all the clothing you want, you can install cameras, etc.

None of it will help - and even worse, when it comes to the point that you need to conceal your identity for your own safety, all the laws will be against you at that point.

reply to post by scientist


You are right, cant blame fashion for the crimes. It was happening before hoodies and it'll continue no matter what.

We cant stop them from happening, all you can do is get tougher laws and enforce them to the point that people will be afraid to commit crimes

Stores are private operations... you don't have the RIGHT to be there, the store gives you the priviledge of shopping there, usually implied unless you break their rules. However, they can ban you from the store for any reason they see fit, even if it's discrimination or they just don't want you in there. They can't wrongfully imprison you, but they can tell you to get out any time they want. It's just good PR not to.

So they can restrict your freedoms if they want, as long as they aren't breaking any laws that apply to them, like beating shoppers or something.

Also "invasion of privacy"... they already have cameras everywhere, and they almost always have warning signs advising so on the front door. If you don't like it, find somewhere else to shop. Plus if enough people boycott them in this fashion they might remove the rule.

[edit on 9/4/2008 by Yarcofin]

even with a hood up and face concealed I can spot an ordinary joe from a bad lad...it's all about body-language and cultural-mannerisms, and once you learn how to 'read the language' you can quickly tell who intends you harm and who doesn't

If you could beat them in order to stop them from causing trouble im sure shop owners would. It is against the law and all you will do is lower yourself to their level

[edit on 4-9-2008 by Mach Shadows]

Originally posted by Mach Shadows
all you can do is get tougher laws and enforce them to the point that people will be afraid to commit crimes

i dont agree with that bit. The answer to fighting crime is not to instill fear, as fear can also motivate people to make extremely irrational decisions. The best way to combat crime is to remove the incentive for it. Of course, there will always be the criminally-minded, however there are already more than enough laws to keep order, it's just a matter of enforcing them with regularity and competence (that means without abuse).

To fight poverty and poor education would serve more purposes than just eliminating crime as well - and it saves people from resorting to crime that may not have otherwise been inclined to such a lifestyle. But I suppose that's a different thread.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
they already have cameras everywhere, and they almost always have warning signs advising so on the front door. If you don't like it, find somewhere else to shop.

valid point, but what about when all stores have cameras, and there is nowhere else to shop? If cameras (in conjunction with banning hoodies / etc.) were mandated by Homeland Security (is it really that much of a stretch to believe?) that's exactly what would happen. Now there is nowhere to "go if you don't like it."

[edit on 4-9-2008 by scientist]

reply to post by citizen smith


And the number of them. In my experience, one or two seem ok and don't display many of the classic Hoodie characteristics. It is when they rejoin the pack that they all become apparent. Rather like the Shankara stones in Temple of Doom.

You see them all standing in a circle, hoods up, all in black, building joints. The look like evil midget druids. But then we're on to another discussion, the cause of these creatures.

If I had a shop, I'd ban hoods and all garments concealing the face. Religious pieces are fine, I have no problem with a person's beliefs.

[edit on 4-9-2008 by Sendran]

[edit on 4-9-2008 by Sendran]

reply to post by citizen smith


Not everyone can read body language. The eldery will fear anyone wearing a hood. They cant tell the difference between a good person and a bad one until it to late

reply to post by Mach Shadows


if everything that scared old people was made illegal, it would be a crazy world indeed.

yo man, i got some hats out back you gotta seeeeeee.

Black market hats. Pathetic world we live in.

On one hand, the stores should be keeping their eyes on people who try to conceal their identities. You can't leave EVERYTHING up to the cameras. They're only supposed to catch the things you miss... not do your job for you.

On the other hand, these are private businesses, and they can do as they please. Whatever makes them their money within their own property limits. If we tread on that, then we're taking away the companies freedoms.

No, this clothing ban cannot be enforced in public areas.
If they start trying this on public sidewalks etc. then it becomes the police's job to judge fashion... and anything shy of a uniform can look pretty dirty to them at the end of a bad day.

So...
Public sector : Bad idea.
Private sector : Its the stores freedom.
Side note to stores : Quit relying on your cameras to do your job.

Here in Benton Harbor Michigan the law will be called if you walk into a bank with a hood and sun glasses. It's automatic too many robberies with the people dressed like that. It's cured most of the problem.

mikell

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by logician magician

What are you talking about?

Nice, don't answer my question why don't you. I'll ask it again: Why on earth did you think this was about a nightclub?

Okay, I'll spell it out for you. I was using the nightclub as a metaphor to make a comparison to a building that is more readily identified as private than a "public" mall is since the OP implied that a "public shopping centre" should not be able to get away with their current practice.

Q: What are you talking about? How can a nightclub refuse to let some people in the door based on an arbitrary judgment?

A: Freedom.

There is nothing wrong with telling people to expose their faces while on your property.

How you have come to the conclusion that the above denotes confusion about the central topic is beyond me - then again, when the word "Asian" is replaced with "Jew" in any context, you think it automatically becomes racist.

It's also why I asked you if you had heard the phrase "a one track mind," which you have just answered.

Originally posted by scientist
it seems you guys are trying to correlate hoodies with crime.

Actually, it's more like they are trying to correlate concealment with crime - which is a perfectly valid correlation.

Stores are private operations... you don't have the RIGHT to be there, the store gives you the priviledge of shopping there, usually implied unless you break their rules.

Seriously - some of these people are acting pretty arrogant thinking that they have a right to walk on whatever property they want with whatever degree of anonymity that want.

The best way to combat crime is to remove the incentive for it.

Easier said than done, idealist. The incentive for money, power, sex, status, etc... is natural to the human condition (money as a concept, anyway).

but what about when all stores have cameras, and there is nowhere else to shop?

That phrase says a lot. Hilarity ensues on ATS when a breaking news article says that a mall is trial testing a ban hoodies, after 6pm, on Thursdays, for a total of probably 3-4 hours a week.

Classic ATS.

"Sir, please remove your hat and sunglasses"

What about the concealed weapons?

Originally posted by logician magician

Originally posted by scientist
it seems you guys are trying to correlate hoodies with crime.

Actually, it's more like they are trying to correlate concealment with crime - which is a perfectly valid correlation.

I couldnt disagree more. "if you dont have anything to hide, you have nothing to worry about." right?

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
Well, if they weren't committing crimes and then hiding their identity by covering their heads and faces, this measure wouldn't need to be taken, would it?

Police state my arse, I have no sympathy for these hoodie kids. If you need to hide your face, you've done something wrong.

I normally agree with your posts (as I'm a massive 40k fan myself, I recognise your assassin picture) but on this one I'm not with you, I'm afraid!

i think this is a stupid comment are you 60+ or something. im 18 and i only have hoodies shirts that all i wear and im not walkin around do in crimes all the time, i just #in hate when people sees me i dont wanna be sen by these pathetic humans that exists i feel like im allways doing something wrong and by wearing hoodies i feel allot more comfterbul

Originally posted by scientist

Originally posted by logician magician

Originally posted by scientist
it seems you guys are trying to correlate hoodies with crime.

Actually, it's more like they are trying to correlate concealment with crime - which is a perfectly valid correlation.

I couldnt disagree more. "if you dont have anything to hide, you have nothing to worry about." right?

I don't know what planet you live on, but thieves and criminals like to sneak around, conceal their identity, and avoid being spotted on cameras and by police officers because it reduces their chances of getting caught.

You seem to not be able to comprehend it because your ideal vision of freedom is clouding it, but chances are, if you are ACTING like a CRIMINAL, you will be getting a little extra attention because you will be giving yourself the superficial appearance of a criminal. Sorry, they have hijacked certain fashionwear. Live with it, because authorities use the "duck test" to test for criminality:

[quote[
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.


If you want something better than that, then you want chips and mind control.

You might want to read this page to catch up on what it is that we as humans are doing:
en.wikipedia.org...

and this one, about outcasts and criminals:
en.wikipedia.org...

The perception or attribution, rightly or wrongly, of criminality carries a strong social stigma.

In sociological theory, a stigma is an attribute, behavior, or reputation which is socially discrediting in a particular way: it causes an individual to be mentally classified by others in an undesirable, rejected stereotype rather than in an accepted, normal one.

Funny huh, how life works when you aren't blinded by ideals?

Originally posted by dahl
i think this is a stupid comment are you 60+ or something. im 18 and i only have hoodies shirts that all i wear and im not walkin around do in crimes all the time, i just #in hate when people sees me i dont wanna be sen by these pathetic humans that exists i feel like im allways doing something wrong and by wearing hoodies i feel allot more comfterbul

Interesting. You are doing something wrong in the eyes of a society who expects security and safety because you are concealing your identity to a degree and attaining a certain amount of anonymity by covering up your most identifiable physical characteristics.

Does it make sense to you that if an airport has a number of bombs brought through in suitcases, that instead of checking every suitcase resulting in wasted time and resources, that they would just ban suitcases altogether?