Hoodies, hats banned from shops

Originally posted by Kryties
A shopping centre near where I live recently tried playing classical music to deter the dealers and gang members that hung out near one of the entrances.

From memory, there were some trials of the mosquito pitch at Bourke St Mall in Melbourne. They were broadcasting it in the alleyways to disperse the assorted scum that gathers there.

Anyway, every day I am dazed by people who approve of and support loss of rights and freedoms. It amazes me how a population can be so compliant and complacent. Far too many people want to live in a friggin plastic bubble.

Originally posted by tezzajw
Anyway, every day I am dazed by people who approve of and support loss of rights and freedoms. It amazes me how a population can be so compliant and complacent. Far too many people want to live in a friggin plastic bubble.

Huh? Actually I don't approve of the mosquito as much, and I doubt if many stores would want to use it because teenagers are pretty big consumers.

However I like the idea of being able to shop without gangs hanging around. Crazy huh? Wanting to shop in comfort without being inconvenienced or intimidated by people that are NOT there to shop, but to hang out and posture for other gangs and fight.

One of the malls here had ALL of their jewerly stores shut down last week because the number of smash and grab robberies (groups of guys in hoodies smashing the cases and stealing all of the jewelry) were so frequent the store owners could NOT stay in business. Yesterday I spoke with a customer that explained he needed cameras OUTSIDE of his restaurant because they have had armed robberies, and the robbers typically dawn their hoods OUTSIDE the front door before the enter the restaurant.

With all of the cameras out there, wearing a hood to cover ones face really IS something that criminals do regularly.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
If the kids have a problem with it, they should disown "hoodie culture" entirely.

Why? Why should they?

I grew up in the 80s where every kid had a denim jacket with chains and spikes hanging from it and heavy metal patches all over them.

They weren't banned and they were far more 'dangerous' than hoodies.

The kids don't have a problem wearing hoodies, it seems in this case that the short-sighted adults have the problem. Tarring all teenagers wearing hoodies with the same brush is not the way to solve the problem.

I don't feel you are really grasping the problem.

If they wear hoodies and scarves over their faces, they know they have anonymity, which means they are much more confident and brash about the crimes they commit.

This means that anyone who wants to commit a crime can wear this hoodie garb and be, at least partially, protected from the law because they cannot be identified.

The only logical response to this problem is to ensure people can't hide their identities - after all, if you aren't a criminal, why do you need to?

Therefore, the kids who are being "wrongly accused" should really turn around and say "hey, I don't want people associating me with a criminal underclass, I'm definitely not dressing that way because people will naturally look at me with suspicion".

If they really are law-abiding, non-aggressive, happy-go-lucky teenage kids, then why would they even want to hide their faces?

Originally posted by Sonya610
However I like the idea of being able to shop without gangs hanging around. Crazy huh? Wanting to shop in comfort without being inconvenienced or intimidated by people that are NOT there to shop, but to hang out and posture for other gangs and fight.

Well, if you think that banning hoodies will cure the problem, then you're mistaken.

These are symptoms of a sick society that needs some serious healing. Your country is basically screwed to the core, which is a shame. It had so much potential.

This thread is about a shopping centre in Australia, not quite the same level of gang violence - yet... Give it a dozen years and Australia will be just as screwed as the USA. With BS regulations like this, we can see that the police state is tweaking its control measures.

reply to post by Sonya610


"However I like the idea of being able to shop without gangs hanging around. Crazy huh? Wanting to shop in comfort without being inconvenienced or intimidated by people that are NOT there to shop, but to hang out and posture for other gangs and fight."

Seriously - if there are any 'dangerous gangs' hanging around, they wouldn't hesitate to destroy the mosquito-device.... that is if they were in fact dangerous in the first place.

It is my professional opinion that most teenagers wear hoodies because they are shy and are going through a particularly difficult developmental stage in their lives. They are often uncomfortable with their own rapidly changing bodies and the accompanying acne and awkwardness.

I'm just a doctor and a Korean War Vet, so I really don't know anything about Teen Health issues or fighting Police States...

Originally posted by tezzajw
Well, if you think that banning hoodies will cure the problem, then you're mistaken.

These are symptoms of a sick society that needs some serious healing. Your country is basically screwed to the core, which is a shame. It had so much potential.

This thread is about a shopping centre in Australia, not quite the same level of gang violence - yet... Give it a dozen years and Australia will be just as screwed as the USA. With BS regulations like this, we can see that the police state is tweaking its control measures.

Well, you obviously don't know your history! We had and used that potential to its fullest.

Britain now is a complete mess. We all know it. Will Labour do anything about it? Of course not, save for dilute our culture even more with colonies of various foriegn types.

Banning hoodies will not solve the root of the problem, but it will immediately prevent these little bastards from raising hell for people, by exposing them for what they are: cowards.

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
The only logical response to this problem is to ensure people can't hide their identities - after all, if you aren't a criminal, why do you need to?

Fair enough. With logic like that, how can I argue? I'll just agree with you, it's easier.

You're not a criminal, are you? In that case, here's your locator ID chip to be implanted in your arm. We'll always know where you are - always. We'll know who you visit, what time you were there, what time you returned. We'll know all of your purchases, as the chip was scanned by the shop scanners and registers. Your car will also be chipped, along with your bike, your skateboard and your running shoes.

You're not a criminal are you? In that case, here's our permanent webcam fitted to the light pole outside your house, focussed on your front door. The world can tune in and see who visits you.

You're not a criminal are you? In that case, we've got a satellite feed broadcasting your house across the internet for all to see.

You're not a criminal are you? You won't object to any of these measures. If you walk out of your front door with a hood over your face, then we'll know that you're doing something wrong, as you're hiding from the webcam. Sure, it might be cold, but you're concealing your identity. No, you're not allowed to build a front fence that obscures the webcam nor can you grow a tree. You're not allowed to hide anything.

Move along, there's nothing to see here, you're not a criminal. We all know who you are all the time, every second of the day and we know what you are doing. Don't dare object to it, or we'll know that you want to do something illegal.

Originally posted by tezzajw
This thread is about a shopping centre in Australia, not quite the same level of gang violence - yet... Give it a dozen years and Australia will be just as screwed as the USA. With BS regulations like this, we can see that the police state is tweaking its control measures.

Yeah, we got big problems in some areas. However you have to realize that hoods DO make a difference, especially with cameras. That is the PURPOSE! And then it becomes a fashion statement and others imitate it.

In the case of the jewerly store robberies, these stores were being hit EVERY FEW DAYS and they could not catch the guys. Why? Because the hooded robbers fit in with all of the other hood wearing people! If hiding ones identity in malls was banned, and therefore RARE it would be a lot more difficult for criminals to walk through a mall without causing suspicion. It would be OBVIOUS that something may be up!

reply to post by Sonya610


Let me give you an example of how this panned out in the states. A while back, a similar thing was passed in a few high-crime areas (newspeak for black communities) of the country. Anyone wearing hoodies, or hats, or bandanas were automatically watched, and became instant suspects for whatever crimes came up.

After a while, they all got smart, and just started wearing a plain, white t-shirt and blue jeans. Tha's it. So now, when a crime is committed, they are just as hard to identify since everyone is wearing the same exact outfit.

Now, this probably wouldnt work once satellite surveillance comes to the local departments, but it serves as a great example of how ridiculous it is to ban a certain style of clothing because of fear (and I would assume a pinch of racism/ageism).

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
The only logical response to this problem is to ensure people can't hide their identities - after all, if you aren't a criminal, why do you need to?

Fair enough. With logic like that, how can I argue? I'll just agree with you, it's easier.

ATS seriously needs an extra "Alert" button for these "if you don't have anything to hide, you don't have anything to worry about" comments. Every time someone makes a comment like this, my heart dies a little more.

[edit on 4-9-2008 by scientist]

Originally posted by tezzajw
How can a public shopping centre enforce dress codes upon youths?

Exactly! Where will it end? Next they'll be banning balaclavas!



Oh wait, they already did.

Yes this is true...they've been banned for quite a long time know in and around my area.
N3RDz

Alright, alarmists, calm down, for the sake of your blood pressure.

You can't tell me you don't see the leap between hiding your identity in public so that you can't be identified for the crimes you've committed and the government monitoring your every movement, right?

Honestly, as if your analogies are even vaguely appropriate.

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
Well, if they weren't committing crimes and then hiding their identity by covering their heads and faces, this measure wouldn't need to be taken, would it?

Police state my arse, I have no sympathy for these hoodie kids. If you need to hide your face, you've done something wrong.

I normally agree with your posts (as I'm a massive 40k fan myself, I recognise your assassin picture) but on this one I'm not with you, I'm afraid!

Well, with your reasoning I would agree that banning kids from hiding their faces would be agreeable. But how can you justify banning people from wearing certain types of clothes because maybe they could be used to hide their face?

I could use a jumper to hide my face, I could use the hood from my jacket instead of a 'hoodie', I could use a bandana, I could use a scarf ro another piece of cloth, or maybe a shawl, etc etc etc. All these could potentially be used to conceal my identity. Should I therefore be banned from wearing them in public?

I wear hoodies and hats. Am I therefore cosidered to be so much of a potential criminal that I too should be banned from entering this shopping center, just in case I might possibly maybe try to cover my face and could be potentially a criminal?

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
Alright, alarmists, calm down, for the sake of your blood pressure.

You can't tell me you don't see the leap between hiding your identity in public so that you can't be identified for the crimes you've committed and the government monitoring your every movement, right?

well seeing how your first option implies that someone hiding their identity has committed a crime, you pretty much explained it for us. By banning hoodies and other forms of hiding your identity, you imply that anyone that would want to do so, has something to hide, as opposed to preferring not to be tracked on cameras.

Also, by banning these things, you are actually creating criminals - so yes, now they are committing a crime just by the very act of causing suspicion that they may have committed a crime.

I'll have you know my doctor is constantly impressed with my blood pressure, thank you very much.

[edit on 4-9-2008 by scientist]

[edit on 4-9-2008 by gambon]

[edit on 4/0908/08 by neformore]

Originally posted by Nammu
I could use a jumper to hide my face, I could use the hood from my jacket instead of a 'hoodie', I could use a bandana, I could use a scarf ro another piece of cloth, or maybe a shawl, etc etc etc. All these could potentially be used to conceal my identity. Should I therefore be banned from wearing them in public?

I don't think they are banning all HOODS. Lots of coats/jackets have hoods. They are banning the covering of ones head and face with a hood. Big difference!

And I am MUCH MUCH happier with them banning that rather than banning weapons, or installing metal detectors all over. Now THAT would infringe on my rights.

This might be a silly question, but whats wrong with asking anyone wearing a hoodie in this shopping centre to leave it down and if its worn up at anytime then they are asked to leave?? I dont think theres a need to ban them, we all made our fashion statements in our youth.

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by logician magician

Q: What are you talking about? How can a nightclub

Nightclub???? Huh???? Where in that article does it mention a nightclub???

They are referring to a Shopping Centre (a Mall for Americans). It is a place for people and families to shop, not privately owned like a nightclub.

[edit on 4/9/2008 by Kryties]

Have you ever heard the expression "He has a one-track mind"?

Also, shopping malls are privately owned, how do you figure they are public? Because people walk inside of them? Do you also believe that grocery stores are public?

What are you talking about?

Originally posted by scientist

well seeing how your first option implies that someone hiding their identity has committed a crime, you pretty much explained it for us. By banning hoodies and other forms of hiding your identity, you imply that anyone that would want to do so, has something to hide, as opposed to preferring not to be tracked on cameras.

[edit on 4-9-2008 by scientist]

No, that is a wild conclusion you have jumped to on the basis of twisting what I have said. You can claim all the implications you want, I've explained myself and if you still wish to subvert that, help yourself.