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Two Americas?

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posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 10:52 PM
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I am so disturbed by watching the GOP convention. I'd like to think that I am smart enough to study subjects from numerous angles, which is a critical protocol of my thought-process to keep me in line. That said, I do believe there is a big problem with America these days.

The bottom line is There are two different Americas

i don't really want to discuss all of the rhetoric that filled up most of the republican speach givers, because it would take all night. i will just simply discuss an overall conventional perception. All I heard was lip service, and most of the penetrating statements were missing key angles. Basically, the simple circumstance has been remitted. Example. Sarah Palin states "Obama wants to raise taxes by billions of dollars." However, a critical angle is that he wants to raise the taxes of the PEOPLE that earn the BILLIONS of dollars. Interestlying enough, that remittance was paramount in understanding the actuality of Obamas views. The entire show was laced with absolutes that were missing the key variable to fully understand the truth.

I am tired of POLITICIANS using this subversive tactic to take advantage of the intellectual weaknesses of the american people.

The important part for all americans to understand is that the GOP are taking advantage of a belief that they themselves don't necessarily believe. What is that?

I come from Ohio. And my family till this day votes based on two things ONLY. Pro-life and Family (gay marriage, no-no). That is generally it! Why is that? Because they are God-fearing americans who hope and pray for Armageddon. They literally are waiting for wwiii, the destruction of the middle east, and the mosque that is presently sitting on top of King Soliman's temple to be destroyed. Then they can rebuild it and all the prophecies of the book of revelations can come to fruition. It's all about Jesus's return.

That is all fine. I guess. But, I get annoyed when the GOP uses that belief against the rest of america. It seems that they use this majority to get their bidding done. Does anyone agree?

So to me that major problem with intellectuals in America that can't understand american policy is that they don't take into account the evangelicals true hope. And that hope is that chaos consumes the world to the point where Jesus saves them.

So here are the two americas, imo.

America One

Lives their lives in a traditional way, living simply, fearing God, and preparing for the end of days. And all they do in the interim is do what the bible tells them. Believe that terror is the newest enemy. Doing the best they know how.

America Two

Intellectuals. Humanists. Hoping to fix what has been broken. Believes we create more terrorists by our actions. Doing the best they know how.

There are two other type of people. People that take advantage. And people that hope for the better. This is truly how I see it, unfortunately.

However, as these sides become more polarized, I think it is inevitable that something will snap. I truly don't think a civil war is out of the question if these sides continue down the same path.

Perhaps this was always inevitable, and to curb it historically, we would create conflict elsewhere that would unite the whole. Smart, but transparent.


I do admit that I have left out many perspectives that may enhance my understanding of things I have posted, so I hope ATS helps to enlighten me if necessary.

A quick question, has america always been this divided ever since reconstruction? Love some older members to chime in.


Thanks for listening to my rant.


AAC











[edit on 4-9-2008 by AnAbsoluteCreation]




posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 11:10 PM
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reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation
 


Ya its gonna be the down fall of AMERICA!

I just hope AMERICA will not sell it self up the river for a third time.



posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 11:20 PM
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Sounds like you're just describing the stereotypical liberals and conservatives. I do however like to think of myself as the second kind that you described.



posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 11:48 PM
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[I am tired of POLITICIANS using this subversive tactic to take advantage of the intellectual weaknesses of the american people.)

(((((((((I AGREE and all it is is lies lies and MORE LIES))))))))

[The important part for all americans to understand is that the GOP are taking advantage of a belief that they themselves don't necessarily believe. What is that?]

*((((Yes they sure are go and do some reading up on the Dominionists)))

[I come from Ohio. And my family till this day votes based on two things ONLY. Pro-life and Family (gay marriage, no-no). That is generally it! Why is that?]

(((((((((And that is why the Politicians make sure they include in just about every election ..they say but they dont do and yet they still get voted back in ))))))))))))))

[Because they are God-fearing americans who hope and pray for Armageddon. They literally are waiting for wwiii, the destruction of the middle east, and the mosque that is presently sitting on top of King Soliman's temple to be destroyed. Then they can rebuild it and all the prophecies of the book of revelations can come to fruition. It's all about Jesus's return]

(Although we are to look forward to the return of our Lord the bible says WOE TO THOSE WHO DESIRE THE DAY OF THE LORD for it is a dark day and horrible day and who can withstand it ...Do they realize that just because they are desiring that the wicked perish they may not be saved either ?A true born again believer in the Loving Lord Jesus Christ should have the same mind set that Jesus did HE WANTS ALL TO BE SAVED AND COME TO HIM .He also mourns and sorrows for the lost ..>WE SHOULD BE DOING THAT TOO .He wants us to do all we can about those lost and let the dead bury the dead (abortions) and let that sin be upon them who do it .
The gay thing I never understood what business is it of believers on whether or not the state says whether they should get married or not ..Its not BLESSED BY GOD even if they allow it ..Man will be the one blessing it and if your not one of them you wont be affected by their marriage one bit.
Stay out of it ..yes try and get through to them ..but they are gonna be together whether they marry or not so really what does it matter ?

I am not saying we should condone it ..but if the world which our Gov (who are not Godly either) which is what they are entangled with (Fleshly Worldy lusts) allows every other smut etc to take place why the heck does it matter about that then ?Thats called hypocracy .......

Another question for Christians
Didnt Jesus say that his kingdom was not of this world and if we are supposed to fight for it he would have told us to do it wouldnt he ?
Why are you all fighting for a kingdom (earth )that Jesus says clearly not to fight for (Dominionists read this and answer me that question please)

We just want to fight for the salvation of peoples souls let the world have the world .
Rend unto ceasars what is ceasars (The worldly fleshly carnal minded people who heaps lusts upon lusts) and rend unto Gods what is Gods
people who are lost and need directions to find and hold in their heart the Lord Jesus Christ who is going to take them away from this disasterous mess.And will protect their hearts from the carnal minded man we all were born with from taking over our souls.That carnal minded man is in EMNITY with God ..they war with eachother (flesh against spirit) one is going to win .
Which one will it be >?is all up to you as an individual .Because you do the choosing .)


[edit on 3-9-2008 by Simplynoone]



posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation
 


This is indeed what is going to happen. You are dead on and starred. Unfortunately the civil war will come much quicker as was relayed to me from a distinguished military officer.



posted on Sep, 3 2008 @ 11:58 PM
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To me, there have been 2 americas for a while. The america I see, and whatever fantasy land everyone else is living in.

Then again, I'm solipsistic.

Id fit more into America #2, but the cynical crowd more than the builders. You always need those architects to look for flaws in the design.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by scientist]



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 12:25 AM
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1st amendment set this up.

Check out- news.yahoo.com...



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 12:46 AM
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In an address last June, the Republican vice presidential candidate also urged ministry students to pray for a plan to build a $30 billion natural gas pipeline in the state, calling it "God's will."


I barf to that.


AAC



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by bubble boy
Sounds like you're just describing the stereotypical liberals and conservatives. I do however like to think of myself as the second kind that you described.


Part of my point was that all are being polarized to thee two sides.

AAC



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 01:14 AM
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I have a similar take on this and yet a very different take on this. Like you, I believe the nation is divided. But I'd say there are three Americas: the far left, the far right, and everyone in the middle. Some might prefer to call the extreme left and right the party elite. But whatever you call them, they are the ones with the power within the party, and the ones responsible for all the dirty politics and don't get anything practical done.

It seems that we (the collective "we") are indeed polarized, because that's exactly what the powers that be want us to believe and the situation they've created in Washington. They also want us to believe that "we" are the good guys and "they" are the bad guys. They want us to believe that there is no middle ground. They want us to believe that good people cannot disagree, which makes the other guy not just wrong - but evil. They want us to be afraid. They want us to believe they will be our savior, but they just want the power and control

But because of the two party system, those of us in the middle have only two practical choices, and since both are equally lacking there's no sense in switching parties, so we tend to split down the middle. Most of us are not happy with either our party or the other party, as Congress' low approval ratings show. Both parties are in deep trouble in this election season, from within their own ranks. The Democrats have the race vs. gender division, among other things. The Republicans have the social conservatives vs. the fiscal conservatives, among other things.

Neither party will ever be the same again. The social conservatives threw their tantrum at the beginning of the year when they combined forces to attack McCain, hoping to keep him from getting the nomination and get Romney or Huckabee back on top. It didn't work. The average Joe and Jane Doe went for the Maverick. They seem to be getting on board with McCain now tho. The Democrats are going thru their own rebellion now, with many Hillary supporters flexing their voting muscles. Many are going to hold their nose and vote for Obama anyway, just as many conservatives will hold their nose and vote for McCain. Some will write-in Hillary's name, but too many - based on the assumption that 1 is too many for Obama! - are going to vote for McCain.

The country will never be the same either. I have no doubt McCain and Palin will win; but even if they don't, they will be the mavericks for change that most people want and will thereafter demand. They are the outsiders with new ideas, willing to work with the other side, just not the wrong side. The Washington establishment is anti-McCain because McCain is anti-establishment. The Democrats are trying to hard to portray McCain as a typical Republican, but he's not, and that will be harder and harder to play off.

I think I'm one of the few people who has high hopes for this election and new administration. I think we'll see the Old Guard on both sides of the aisle replaced with the New Guard - starting with Sarah Palin.

Cheers! Bo



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 02:04 AM
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I don't think there are 2 Americas.

There are 3.

there is a third group that looks at both major parties and the puppet-play going on a-la Bread and Circus entertainment rhetorical drama ...

knowing it's two sides of the same coin, to distract you .. occupying your thoughts with cyclic verses of BS, causing you all to spat back and forth about insignificant crap, while they pull off the most obvious manipulations behind your back.

thing is.. nobody sees this 3rd America.

and it's the only one that will save the other two.

-



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 02:17 AM
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Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation

In an address last June, the Republican vice presidential candidate also urged ministry students to pray for a plan to build a $30 billion natural gas pipeline in the state, calling it "God's will."


I barf to that.


AAC


More like her husbands will...and he aint god.

After all he is in the oil business from what I read.

To bad the 'Christians' get yanked around so easily by those that lead them.
With Christians its easy...tell them you believe the same and then do the opposite and say its in Gods name. I have seen it quite a lot in my life...the blind following the blind. - not to say my vision is yet perfect...


Peace

dAlen

[edit on 4-9-2008 by dAlen]



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 02:22 AM
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reply to post by prevenge
 


While I see your point, and have seen it for years, one of my raising concerns is that the middle is vanishing. It is going to come down to this, do you believe that it is god's will to see the destruction of billions of humans, or do you think we have a shot of saving the whole thing. Those will become the only two choices SOON. IMO


AAC



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 02:32 AM
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Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
reply to post by prevenge
 


While I see your point, and have seen it for years, one of my raising concerns is that the middle is vanishing. It is going to come down to this, do you believe that it is god's will to see the destruction of billions of humans, or do you think we have a shot of saving the whole thing. Those will become the only two choices SOON. IMO


AAC



well dont you think that the group of individuals wishing to steer the group that believe "god's going to do it to us" .. will use whatever technology possible to imitate or create whatever is "supposed to happen" .. in the bible?
just so that the circuit of belief is completed?

if "god" isn't going to do it..

then the zionists will do it.

and all the "armageddon's coming!" people will react typically in the same manner as if he/she/it DID do "it".


so from this obvious outcome of zionist world leaders using the bible as a script..

I can come to two conclusions.




1- man IS god.

and

2- people are gullible idiots for the most part.

-



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 02:38 AM
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I can come to two conclusions.




1- man IS god.

and

2- people are gullible idiots for the most part.

-


Pretty much.


AAC



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 02:50 AM
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as a member of the moderate middle, but of christian values, this is what i see:

1. if you excessively tax the rich and corporations you...
--A. cause prices to go up so they can recoup their losses
--B. this trickles down to the middle and poor classes, causing further suffering and making them increasingly more dependent on the government and lowering their quality of life
--C. the rich and corporations who create the jobs that form the backbone of the economy, may opt instead to move their businesses offshore in order to avert bankruptcy, removing jobs, making the people increasingly more dependent on the government.

2. if you don't maintain social programs that help the needy and employ common sense, evenly distributing the benefits to all and sundry, regardless of age, race, gender or religion, you....
--A. create dissent and jealousy
--B. create an entire class of people who must reach an unequal and decidedly more deprived level of poverty, to receive the same benefits
--C. cause race and class displeasure, and massage the masses into revolutionary scenarios which end with many dead, suffering and incarcerated people who might normally have lived a fairly normal life
--D. create an entire culture of prison inmates, in which everyone is a slave to the government in big work farms.

i dreamt about a futuristic (?) version of the last one. i was on the moon, and there was a sea of people, all wearing the same blue one piece coveralls. all people did the same type of work, filed in the same queues, like little worker ants, no individuality, no creativity, no personality, just drones doing the same job, work cycle after work cycle. i had this same dream, every night for a week, before i prayed that it be taken away because it was so zombie like and depressing. if the usa gets to that point, head for the hills because living in a cave, eating bugs would be better. at least you'll be free.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 04:31 AM
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Originally posted by undo
as a member of the moderate middle, but of christian values, this is what i see:

1. if you excessively tax the rich and corporations you...
--A. cause prices to go up so they can recoup their losses
--B. this trickles down to the middle and poor classes, causing further suffering and making them increasingly more dependent on the government and lowering their quality of life
--C. the rich and corporations who create the jobs that form the backbone of the economy, may opt instead to move their businesses offshore in order to avert bankruptcy, removing jobs, making the people increasingly more dependent on the government.

2. if you don't maintain social programs that help the needy and employ common sense, evenly distributing the benefits to all and sundry, regardless of age, race, gender or religion, you....
--A. create dissent and jealousy
--B. create an entire class of people who must reach an unequal and decidedly more deprived level of poverty, to receive the same benefits
--C. cause race and class displeasure, and massage the masses into revolutionary scenarios which end with many dead, suffering and incarcerated people who might normally have lived a fairly normal life
--D. create an entire culture of prison inmates, in which everyone is a slave to the government in big work farms.

i dreamt about a futuristic (?) version of the last one. i was on the moon, and there was a sea of people, all wearing the same blue one piece coveralls. all people did the same type of work, filed in the same queues, like little worker ants, no individuality, no creativity, no personality, just drones doing the same job, work cycle after work cycle. i had this same dream, every night for a week, before i prayed that it be taken away because it was so zombie like and depressing. if the usa gets to that point, head for the hills because living in a cave, eating bugs would be better. at least you'll be free.



I don't mind people having "christian values"... but when it comes down to the point where it's affecting my personal choices, I get irate.

and you know what? "christian values" ARE "buddhist values" .. are "judeaic values" are "hindu values" ..
the golden rule.. etc..
treat thy neighbor as you would yourself.. etc..

it's just a massive jigsaw puzzle that needs to be solved..
reset.. completed..
and we need to do it SOON.

truth can't come from books full of myths that have multiple perceptions.

it needs to come from a constant, resonant ACTUAL set of issues we all find comfort in agreeing on...... that we ALL believe in.


not from imaginary gods.

just from our insides.

and we can find this..
the problem lies in..
how many people are completely addicted to their religion's books and what they say as the absolute code of reality...

and how ALL those "Versions" .. of mythological realities can be blended down into one pure and completely efficient scientifically prudent actual truth.

-



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 07:59 AM
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And who would do that Prevenge ?
You ?
And I would ask you how you would be able to come up with something that everyone could agree on ?



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation


I am tired of POLITICIANS using this subversive tactic to take advantage of the intellectual weaknesses of the american people.


[edit on 4-9-2008 by AnAbsoluteCreation]


Honestly, do you really think that people of this nature don't deserve to be taken advantage of? Well I suppose that is a little extreme. But I draw the line at feeling sorry for the intellectually weak when they make ass-hat choices and then reap the catastrophic consequences.

Like a previous poster said, most people are idiots. Most people would rather be boiled in oil than open their eyes to the small bit of what we can actually see that truly goes on. Most people have absolutely no desire to think for themselves. So who cares if they can't see through the political BS, which is spread like manure equally by Democrats and Republicans. Don't act as if the GOP invented political spin.

So I would agree that there are two Americas:

The vast majority who care about celebrity news
And the tiny minority who can actually see what lies ahead.

If most Americans (I'm an equal opportunity hater, so I think most people in the world are ridiculously gullible, but we're discussing America) actually did want change, if they actually did want to get out of the hole we're in, if they actually did want a future for their kids, Ron Paul would be facing Dennis Kucinich in the General Election. Instead we have the absolute worst facing the absolute worst.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 11:27 AM
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GOP wasn't alltogether truthful with their facts lasy night.

Here are a few examples that have already been noted.


AAC

[edit on 4-9-2008 by AnAbsoluteCreation]



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