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"Drill Baby Drill" Noun+Verb=GOP EnergyPolicy(let's all chant)

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posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 07:26 AM
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Originally posted by proximo

Come on there is no security issue - as long as our money is good we will be able to buy oil. Do you really think we are capable of pissing off enough sources of Oil that the largest consumer nearly (25%) of oil is going to be blackballed reducing demand and lowering prices for the producers worldwide.


its happening already, read a newspaper. we are at the mercy of market prices out of our control... between wacky south america, iran, russia, not to mention weather. its foolish not to be more independent.



Europe, Japan, China, they are all dependent on Foreign oil - are any of those countries invading the middle east to secure oil? No they are working on moving as fast as possible to alternate forms of energy.


so, we should just settle for the status quo? america is better than that, and we should be. we are leaders in alt energy research, and we havent found a way to make it replace good old fashioned oil... looking and finding are two different things.



This is the only intelligent thing to do seeing as how there are many promising technologies available now and many better ones available in the next few years, and developing new forms of technology has tremendous potential to grow a countries economy.


promising, but yet to deliver. big difference. so families should choose between food or petrol in the meantime? americans shouldnt have good paying jobs until then? what a laugh.



The problem is we have oil companies and Defense contractors controlling our government and they much prefer our current empire building strategy. Don't fall for their propaganda - it is just an excuse to try and retain support for their unjust wars.


they might prefer it, the people do not.

can you give an example of a just war? i'm betting you cannot.




posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 07:31 AM
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Drilling for more oil isnt going to do anyone any good if you dont have the refineries to process it.

The current refineries cant keep up with the demand curve, thus if you shove more oil in front of the current overworked refineries, your not going to get any more processed products out of that added oil.

And drilling more holes in the ground isnt going to make that price of gas drop back down to a buck a gallon. Since more refineries have to be built, plus the delivery of that crude to the refineries that exsist now and the new ones, plus adding the necessary workforce to make that happen, all of those costs will get passed right down to the consumer at the pump.

Yes it might make the USA more energy independant, but it wont become a reality for 10 to 15 years.

What should be done right now is use our abundant coal and natural gas resources. Natural gas burns cleaner, is abundant and every single vehicle on the road is easily and cheaply convertable to burn natural gas.

Coal fires over half of our power plants right now. So no problems there. Right now we do not need forign oil or more oil wells in the USA. We have a resource readily available right now and can supply this country with energy for transportation for the next 100 or more years.

Natural gas.

Seems so logical..yet no one is even looking at that potential.

Not even the candidates..all they say is drill drill drill.

Perhaps priorities are not for the people, but for the big oil companies instead.

Think about it people.

Google this country's natural gas sites and sources and you will see that right now we have an answer that will solve this issue once and for all, and bring immediate relief and independance to our energy issues.

Cheers!!!



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by iamcamouflage
What you are suggesting is to either nationalize the energy companies in the country or you are not aware of how private companies work. When you say WE will drill this oil ourselves, whom are you refering to? US owned private companies? A hypothetical US Government Oil Company? Suggesting to nationalize energy industry is a completely different argument than suggesting that US owned private companies do the drilling. If you are suggesting that US owned private companies do the drilling, you need to keep in mind that there is no incentive for a private company to sell oil below the market value to US consumers. Unless you are onboard with JSOBecky, he is suggesting that the US govt create a partnership with private companies. If you are suggesting that the US govt nationalize the energy industry, keep in mind you are advocating a socialist system. I'm not opposed to that idea either but know where you stand what the results of your suggestions are.


who said anything about nationalising? not at all, last thing we need is another bloated gub'ment entity.

market value has changed simply by discussing this topic seriously... do the math, what will happen we produce our own? a barrel of oil costs saudi arabia about one u.s. dollar, whats that barrel trading for today?

how much are people in south america paying for a gallon of gas? $0.40?

can you guess why that is?



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by Rook1545
You want it straight up, here you go. Drill all you want. But when it makes NO difference at all in what you pay for gasoline, don't cry about it.

American produced does not equal American consumed. How is that for you? Straight forward enough?

I thought maybe helping some to understand WHY it won't make difference would help, some could see where I was going with it, you couldn't. Let me repeat again. AMERICAN PRODUCED DOES NOT EQUAL AMERICAN CONSUMED. If it can be sold on the world market to someone else that will pay more for it, you will lose out.


you have yet to offer anything convincing...

where does russia get its petrol? saudi arabia? iran? south america?

they all sell their petrol to the world market, yet somehow manage to have enough for domestic consumption... gosh, how do they do that?

so far, all you've been able to offer is gloom and doom, if you have a better idea, here would be a good place to present it.

you might even parrot what obama's solution is, at the very least?



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 07:45 AM
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reply to post by feydrautha
 


I just posted a better idea two posts above your most recent ones.

Natural gas.

Cheap, abundant, easy and cheap to convert vehicles to burn it, burns cleaner and is cheaper to aquire, process and deliver.

Cheers!!!



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
Drilling for more oil isnt going to do anyone any good if you dont have the refineries to process it.


thats why we would, get this, build more. wow, more good paying jobs for americans! dont you hate that?



And drilling more holes in the ground isnt going to make that price of gas drop back down to a buck a gallon. Since more refineries have to be built, plus the delivery of that crude to the refineries that exsist now and the new ones, plus adding the necessary workforce to make that happen, all of those costs will get passed right down to the consumer at the pump.

Yes it might make the USA more energy independant, but it wont become a reality for 10 to 15 years.


same old tired, and baseless mantra. the serious discussion in the news about this subject affected oil prices favorably. just talking about it!




What should be done right now is use our abundant coal and natural gas resources. Natural gas burns cleaner, is abundant and every single vehicle on the road is easily and cheaply convertable to burn natural gas.

Coal fires over half of our power plants right now. So no problems there. Right now we do not need forign oil or more oil wells in the USA. We have a resource readily available right now and can supply this country with energy for transportation for the next 100 or more years.

Natural gas.


ng is still way overpriced, coal is dirty, expensive to clean and dangerous to mine. ng prices will also come down, because we get that along with oil harvesting.



Seems so logical..yet no one is even looking at that potential.

Not even the candidates..all they say is drill drill drill.

Perhaps priorities are not for the people, but for the big oil companies instead.

Think about it people.

Google this country's natural gas sites and sources and you will see that right now we have an answer that will solve this issue once and for all, and bring immediate relief and independance to our energy issues.

Cheers!!!


still not good enough, ng is very expensive, over $300 a month to keep an insulated, modest home at 65 degrees? are you serious? more oil = more ng, more supply = lower market price

will we see you in the coal mines? hows that life insurance policy?



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 08:01 AM
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Go ahead and drill up 100,000,000,000,000,000 barrels a day. Guess what? We're still going to be dependent on oil.

We need to go to water, Hydrocell, solar, and electric. That will make the price of a barrel of oil pointless.



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 08:09 AM
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I would like to see evidence of it costing someone 300 a month to keep a typical house warm with natural gas!!

I live in Wy, gets mighty cold up here and I use natural gas to keep my thin walled trailer warm, costs me only 60 bucks a month.

Natural gas is not more dangerous to aquire, neither is coal. New technologies to mine it and refine it as well as use it make it a logical choice to move this nation to energy independance.

Yes creating more jobs for the USA is one good point in drilling more holes.

But your not looking at the reality of what it takes nor the costs to even just drill that hole and hopefully you tap into a oil supply.

Have you watched the program "Black Gold" on Tru-TV? I used to live out there in West Texas, a haven of oil reserves. It costs up to 4 million dollars to drill just 1 hole to find oil. And even with modern methods of finding oil reserves down there in the ground, they do not always hit a profitable well. I know this for a fact becasue I worked in the oil field industry for over 20 years. (Longhorn Drilling Corp, Odessa Tx)

Right now there is abundant natural gas wells just sitting with tons of energy just waiting to be used. And did you know that the reason why prices of oil jump up and down so much is not because of talk, its because of supply and demand. It makes no sense to keep on using a resource that is dwindling and that is so touchy with forign influence to ignore an immediate alternative right at our own front yard.

You want to break away from forign energy dependance? You want to see prices go down in energy supply? Then why do you want to drill more holes in the ground that wont get you those reliefs in prices for another 15 years???

Makes absolutely no sense.

If the nation moves to use natural gas, the price will be even cheaper than your heating oil or petro for gasoline or diesel. And just look it up yourself, Google the nations power plants and see for yourself how many are fired by coal and the reasons why.

Coal is cheap, safe and with new recycling technologies, the exausts are re-used and pumped right back into the ground in some cases. We have a coal fired power plant right here near Casper Wy and it doesnt spew out black soot or any other gasious exausts. In fact, Google the technologies developed over the last 10 years for coal refining and usage and you will see that it is alot cleaner now than it was when coal was used in boilers on trains and other power plants.

Its all right there for everyone to see the obvious benefits.

BTW, natural gas burns clean.....gasoline, diesel, or any other fuel from petrolium oil does not.

Cheers!!!



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 08:15 AM
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Originally posted by Krieger
Go ahead and drill up 100,000,000,000,000,000 barrels a day. Guess what? We're still going to be dependent on oil.

We need to go to water, Hydrocell, solar, and electric. That will make the price of a barrel of oil pointless.


I agree. Right now however these technologies are being held back by big oil because they know these methods will rid us of that black stuff dependance forever.

And, current available alternatives like hydrogen fuel cells and electrics are so expensive..again by big oil, making these logical alternatives far out of the reach of the mass public. Only the rich few can afford these kinds of alternatives. Plus the infrastructure is not there to support it. Again held back by big oil.

But the point is well agreed. We are using antiquated methods to power our society, methods that were created way back in the 1800's. Oil is no different. In fact if you all just do some homework, you will find that in the early days of energy, Brown's gas and similar methods were used LONG before oil or gasoline or diesel was ever used as a fuel.

Cheers!!!!



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
I would like to see evidence of it costing someone 300 a month to keep a typical house warm with natural gas!!


Mornin' RFB,
Well. we spend around that a month in the summer in a 2br townhouse in DC but on electrical heat/cool.
Did you see the compromise bill that was agreed to last night?
What do you think?



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 08:17 AM
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Drilling does not fix our problem quickly, but it may bring speculation down and give our children in the future some relief. In the meantime we can work on natural gas and other alternatives. From what ve been reading we have a lot of natural gas. I cannot believe we are not using more of this clean and cheaper energy. Something fishy there, congress is stalling. Whats new.

[edit on 5-9-2008 by tommyb98201]



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by RFBurns
I would like to see evidence of it costing someone 300 a month to keep a typical house warm with natural gas!!


Mornin' RFB,
Well. we spend around that a month in the summer in a 2br townhouse in DC but on electrical heat/cool.
Did you see the compromise bill that was agreed to last night?
What do you think?


Good morning!

Using electric for heat is definately expensive. My trailer used to have a central heat/cooling unit that was totally electric. Cost me almost 300 a month during both the summer and winter seasons. I changed that out with an evaporative cooler and a natural gas heater and cut my electric bill down to just over 35 bucks a month during the summer, my winter electric bill is even cheaper, around 23 bucks a month. The gas bill during the last winter season peaked at just over 65 bucks. Keeping a mobil home warm when its -15 in wind chills of -30 isnt easy, yet my home stays nice and toasty at 68*

I missed the compromise bill proposal so I cant make a comment on that. Any links to this subject that you know of?

Cheers!!!



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by tommyb98201
Drilling does not fix our problem quickly, but it may bring speculation down and give our children in the future some relief. In the meantime we can work on natural gas and other alternatives. From what ve been reading we have a lot of natural gas. I cannot believe we are not using more of this clean and cheaper energy. Something fishy there, congress is stalling. Whats new.

[edit on 5-9-2008 by tommyb98201]


You are right about the natural gas supply, there is enough there to provide energy for this nation for the next 100 or more years, and its readily available now. No need for more wells or refineries. Its all just sitting and waiting to be used.

What more drilling will do for us is not only create more jobs, but it will produce even more speculation becasue as I have mentioned, they do not always hit a profitable well. Tho they may hit a well with some oil in it, it might not produce as much oil out of that well to cover the initial investment costs of drilling that well, hence that means the well is what they call a "low margin well". They do hit good wells too however, and it is those wells that provide the core of the supply.

Another thing to consider about drilling for oil is this. Much of the methods used to get at that oil uses new technologies to "squeeze" oil out of the rock, which requires other methods and quite expensive technologies to get at that stubborn oil. This increases the costs to the investors, in turn that costs is passed on down the line to the consumer.

Basically, making more holes in the ground is a 50/50 chance that it will bring us what we need for this country's energy issue. And even if we were to hit a 70% good well ratio vs bad wells, we wont see any benefit from those wells for at the very least 10 years. Lets not also forget that in order to benefit from the extra oil we get out of new wells, we need more refineries to process it.

All of this will in fact produce more jobs, we desperately need these jobs. But just look at how uncertian that market is right now. As I stated, I worked in the industry for over 20 years, and I can testify under oath, as well as all my oil field friends out there in West Texas will testify, that in the oil field industry, it is NEVER a steady market. We went from one oil company to another, almost every 4 to 6 months because of the fact that they never hit good wells 100 percent of the time. I must have bounced back and forth from Longhorn 8 or 9 times during that 20+ year span in the industry. I have seen alot of effects on the economy out there with so many linked buisnesses close down because of the "boom" and "bust" cycles. There have been more bust cycles than booms.

Right now there is in fact a "boom" cycle. They are hitting some good wells about 40 miles south east of Ector County in West Texas. But as history has proven over and over again, with a boom, there is always and unavoidable bust.

I guess my whole point here is that we could play the 50/50 game and maybe, just maybe we might see a relief in energy costs and more jobs. But those reliefs and jobs created also follow that boom and bust cycle.

It would be nice to be able to have a steady job in that industry for 20 some years without having to bounce back and forth from one company to another during those boom and bust cycles.

With natural gas, there has not been ANY boom or bust cycle because the resource is not even tapped to its fullest potential. Its just sitting there, waiting for us to take the initative to use it. Imagine how many steady jobs will be created with the natural gas industry put into full force and how steady those jobs will be over a 100 year span!!!


Cheers!!!



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by RFBurns

I missed the compromise bill proposal so I cant make a comment on that. Any links to this subject that you know of?

Cheers!!!


Oh it's on the previous page. If you take the page from the top it's actually funny cause the compromise came out while they were chanting "drill baby drill"
Anyway take a gander at it.



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by RFBurns

I missed the compromise bill proposal so I cant make a comment on that. Any links to this subject that you know of?

Cheers!!!


Oh it's on the previous page. If you take the page from the top it's actually funny cause the compromise came out while they were chanting "drill baby drill"
Anyway take a gander at it.


Got it, thanks! I also found an article searching Google.

Well its a start. What is most impressive is the funding for the alternatives, the wind, solar and the other renewables. Its a move in the right direction.

The issue I see that may run into problems is the drive for more nuclear energy. Tho nuclear seems to be a logical alternative, the problem is what to do with all the toxic waste products from those added nuclear facilities. We already have a huge mess with current nuclear waste products and no where to put them. Adding more nuclear power plants will solve one problem, but create an even bigger problem as well.

Again adding more drilling efforts is a 50/50 margin, even in researched areas where they see oil reserves that can be tapped.

It takes more than just drilling a 2,000 to 6,000 foot hole in the ground to get at the oil. And along the way, you have to make sure that hole casing doesnt leak and get into precious ground water tables, along with avoiding gas pockets which could literally blow up the entire drilling rig. Its very risky drilling into known H2S gas pocket areas, and even more risky drilling into new sites where there are unknowns.

But overall, its at least a good direction for the country that both sides of the issue are compromising. We have to do something and soon. I am all for making this nation energy independant, but must we continue to go through hard times across the economic spectrum while right now available to us to provide immediate relief, a huge energy resource remains untapped?

But as I said, at least the wheel of decision up in Washington is at least moving forward with the issue..even if it may be just a fraction.


Cheers!!!



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 09:05 AM
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To add to my opinion on the compromise.

Ok so the oil companies will not get their tax breaks of 80 some odd million. They feel that they would be punished by the compromise.

Well....boy thats a deep subject!! How much punishment are we getting out of this energy crisis when these oil companies report profits that reach well over 40+ BILLION???

Does anyone honestly think that with such profit margins that them not getting an 80 some million tax break is a punishment????

Cmon...80 million is pocket change compared to 40+BILLION profit!!!

These efforts to move away from oil wont hurt them one bit. Even if we move off of oil 100 percent, we still need oil for plastics, lubricants, synthetic products, medicines, and other things that come from petroleum.

The big oil companies have just gotten used to making 40+BILLION dollars in profit all the time. Profit is money after all expenses are paid. I would think that their coffers would not be hurt one bit at all by moving this nation towards more efficient and abundant resources of energy.

The oil companies seem to cry like babies. Are we going to keep feeding the baby..or make that oil baby grow up and become truely energy independant?

Cheers!!!



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by feydrautha

you have yet to offer anything convincing...

where does russia get its petrol? saudi arabia? iran? south america?

they all sell their petrol to the world market, yet somehow manage to have enough for domestic consumption... gosh, how do they do that?

so far, all you've been able to offer is gloom and doom, if you have a better idea, here would be a good place to present it.

you might even parrot what obama's solution is, at the very least?


that is because you haven't been paying attention. As was said, these companies have a semi-nationalized system where the government subsidizes the oil at home by the some of the money they make selling the excess on the open market.

As was pointed out before, and linked in my sig. Until the US builds more refineries, which will take a minimum of 7 years, drilling won't do anything. I have looked up the stats for a previous thread. All US refineries are running at an average of 87%. The ones along the Gulf coast are much higher. There is just no room for more oil. If the oil companies could run more oil through them, they would have drilled on the massive amount of lease land they currently hold. So you tell me, where is this new oil going to be refined?

I am not dooming and glooming, I am being realistic, you on other hand refuse to listen to reason. Hell, jsobecky and I rarely agree, but he doesn't seem to see any issue with what I am saying for the most part. I am done with you and the fact that you just can't stand reason that is not supportive of your own philosophy.



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 09:45 AM
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The sopposed third choice to simply get off oil is dumb. Oils is not just gas and heating fuel, it's many many products we use everyday. No, we need to get it out of our land and sea areas. Once we don't buy from the nation terrorists, communists, and dictators, they will starve for money and we will all be the better off for it.



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by Fromabove
 


With ever improving recovery and recycling solutions the need will lessen.
Who knows what substitutes we will find for plastics and tires.
Maybe we'll be eaten up by our nanotubes.

"Drill nanos Drill"



posted on Sep, 5 2008 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by Fromabove
The sopposed third choice to simply get off oil is dumb. Oils is not just gas and heating fuel, it's many many products we use everyday. No, we need to get it out of our land and sea areas. Once we don't buy from the nation terrorists, communists, and dictators, they will starve for money and we will all be the better off for it.


That bold part is awesome. It just goes to show how little people know about their own economy. The US does not get any oil from "communists". In the top 5 countries that export to the US, I see no dictators (Venezuela could be argued, but they are democratic), and I will give you the Saudi Arabia is a terrorist state. But do you honestly think the US is doing these countries a favor by buying their oil? China and many many other countries would gladly buy that oil. They will not starve for money, and it would only hurt the US in the end. So really that should read:



Once we don't buy from the one nation of terrorists, we will starve for oil and they won't care.


Here the top exporting countries to the US:


CANADA 2,359 2,346 2,472 2,410 2,470
SAUDI ARABIA 1,493 1,604 1,538 1,534 1,434
MEXICO 1,254 1,218 1,304 1,529 1,590 VENEZUELA 1,215 1,171 1,172 1,364 1,356
NIGERIA 1,020 918 1,092 968 1,080


Taken from here


[edit on 5-9-2008 by Rook1545]

[edit on 5-9-2008 by Rook1545]



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