It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

"Drill Baby Drill" Noun+Verb=GOP EnergyPolicy(let's all chant)

page: 6
10
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 02:40 PM
link   
reply to post by Rook1545
 



I would spit it back in their face. If Americans are opposed to something these people want and they get all blustery, then they are the ones hating Americans. If they are opposing something that would make America better, then they are the ones hating America. It is such a stupid argument "either you are with us or against us". That is not a totalitarian, Stalinist statement at all.


This is reminiscent of the Simpsons episode with the comet that burns on entry.
Response: "Let's burn the observatory so this never happens again!"

I have to fill up my car with gas too you know, at freaking $70 a pop.
"Democrats hate America"
I don't hate anything! I could do without the Dutch, but that's for another thread.


I got to try to laugh cause the alternative is ... not good.

[edit on 9/4/2008 by schrodingers dog]




posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 02:44 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rook1545
Here is one really good reason that you cannot refute. The people doing the drilling, are these same oil barons you talk about in your first statement. Like I said before, they don't a sweet rat's a** if you get cheap fuel or not. So really by promoting the drilling, you are promoting making these guys even more money.


sorry, that doesnt resemble a good reason in any way at all

our oil companies are not owned by saudi arabia, russia or south america...

manufacturing of infrastructure will create impressive numbers of good paying jobs

the resolve to do so would drive the market price of petrol down

combined with nuclear electric plants, near complete independence, a far cry from where we stand today

...that wasnt even a half hearted try, i'm a little dissapointed



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 02:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by feydrautha
sorry, that doesnt resemble a good reason in any way at all

our oil companies are not owned by saudi arabia, russia or south america...

manufacturing of infrastructure will create impressive numbers of good paying jobs

the resolve to do so would drive the market price of petrol down

combined with nuclear electric plants, near complete independence, a far cry from where we stand today

...that wasnt even a half hearted try, i'm a little dissapointed


I am going out on a limb that you have no idea about the oil industry. Your oil companies ARE owned by those people and more. They are publicly traded oil companies, and alot of foreign nationals have their fingers in that pie. Shell is not even an American company, yet they do alot of business in the US.

As for the manufacturing and infrastructure for these new facilities, alot of the people that these companies will bring in, will not be Americans. The engineers will be Indian, Pakistani, and Chinese. It is not hard to get them in. The geologists will be Canadian, British, Russian, with some Americans. The labor might come from a 50/50 mix of Americans.

These oil companies don't give a crap about you. They work on contracts. If they can get a contract from a company in Canada or Britain that is cheaper than an American company, they will take it. Those companies will supply their own workforce.

Maybe next time you should put in some effort so that I will have to as well. That was too easy



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 03:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rook1545

I am going out on a limb that you have no idea about the oil industry. Your oil companies ARE owned by those people and more. They are publicly traded oil companies, and alot of foreign nationals have their fingers in that pie. Shell is not even an American company, yet they do alot of business in the US.



whats this have to do with drilling our own oil? how is this an argument against it? stay on point.




As for the manufacturing and infrastructure for these new facilities, alot of the people that these companies will bring in, will not be Americans. The engineers will be Indian, Pakistani, and Chinese. It is not hard to get them in. The geologists will be Canadian, British, Russian, with some Americans. The labor might come from a 50/50 mix of Americans.



thats your guess, and nothing more... still, how is this an argument against drilling our own? your simply grasping at straws, for what thats worth



These oil companies don't give a crap about you. They work on contracts. If they can get a contract from a company in Canada or Britain that is cheaper than an American company, they will take it. Those companies will supply their own workforce.



no one suggested the oil companies were personally interested in being my pal... hello? mcfly? lets keep on track... produce our own oil = less dependence on foreign oil at the very least.

is it a.d.d.?




Maybe next time you should put in some effort so that I will have to as well. That was too easy


it sure looked too easy, almost no effort, but for coming up with non sequitur and red herring... not one good reason against drilling our own...

because an indian engineer might be on the job?

this is silly, you must have better than that?



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 03:33 PM
link   
reply to post by feydrautha
 


You were the one that brought up funding foreign economies. Either you buy the oil directly from them and support them, or let your companies drill for oil and support them. I guess you forgot you typed that part. You brought that up, not me.




thats your guess, and nothing more... still, how is this an argument against drilling our own? your simply grasping at straws, for what thats worth


as someone who has worked in the oilfield and seen the construction of these places, no it is no a guess. It is what happens. You, again were the one that brought up the point that this would create more jobs for Americans, I am saying it would have little effect.




no one suggested the oil companies were personally interested in being my pal... hello? mcfly? lets keep on track... produce our own oil = less dependence on foreign oil at the very least. is it a.d.d.?


You just don't get it do you. It doesn't matter if the US pumps the oil out of it's land. If the company can get a better price for it in Turkey, they will sell it there. There is no guarantee that Americans will see any of the oil pumped from their land. Maybe you have the ADD, you can't seem to stick to your own talking points.




Maybe next time you should put in some effort so that I will have to as well. That was too easy it sure looked too easy, almost no effort, but for coming up with non sequitur and red herring... not one good reason against drilling our own... because an indian engineer might be on the job? this is silly, you must have better than that?


It was too easy because you lost track of your own thoughts before you posted. Next time try to remember what you have said already. As you can see any non sequitur and red herrings are really just refutation of your "facts".



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 04:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by drwizardphd


Did you read the rest of his post?


You mean after the "big government" comment? No, it was added after I wrote my post.


Originally posted by drwizardphd
Regardless, as long as we continue to rely on drilling we'll just further dig ourselves into our oil-grave. The fact that this proposed drilling will only lower the gas price 3-4 cents per gallon is proof that this is a manufactured issue, being used to divide the more gullible voters into drillers vs. non-drillers.


Unfortunately, we are stuck being an oil based society for a while, until better things come along. I'd rather the money stay in the US than go to Saudi.

(spelling edit)

[edit on 3-9-2008 by jerico65]


The money does not stay in the US, we still have to pay top dollar to the foriegn or US oil company who drills it. This is the free market at work, any company that drills oil, will sell it to the highest bidder, or the going rate on the market. Oil that is drilled in the US is NOT US oil. It would be owned by whatever company drills and extracts it. They are not required to sell it to the US for a discounted price they are going to sell it on the global oil market for the best price they can get. Most of these oil companies are not US companies, so what makes you think that drilling in the US, will decrease are supply of foriegn oil? And even if they are US owned companies, they are still private companies, they have no deal with the US govt to sell their oil at a cheap price to strictly US consumers.
The oil industry is not nationalized. They are private companies(most foriegn) and have no special pact with the US to deliver US drilled oil directly to the US population. The only thing that drilling in the US does is provide a very tiny increase in the global oil supply.

Drilling is not a fix it is a hoax, to make more money for the oil industry.

Please explain to me how drilling in the US increases the US oil supply.

Anyone who advocates offshore or ANWR US drilling MUST answer this question or you have no leg to stand on. This is the crux of the argument.


[edit on 4-9-2008 by iamcamouflage]



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 04:33 PM
link   
reply to post by feydrautha
 


You are wasting your efforts. They live under a blanket of fear, a blanket that Obama threw over their heads. They fear the challenges, the work needed.. they fear the ultimate success.

They would much rather have Obama Nation (Abomination) take care of them from cradle to grave. This is the essence of socialism.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 04:40 PM
link   
reply to post by iamcamouflage
 



Originally posted by iamcamouflage
The money does not stay in the US, we still have to pay top dollar to the foriegn oil company who drills it. Oil that is drilled in the US is NOT US oil. It would be owned by whatever company drills and extracts it. They are not required to sell it to the US for a discounted price they are going to sell it on the global oil market for the best price they can get. Most of these oil companies are not US companies, so what makes you think that drilling in the US, will decrease are supply of foriegn oil?


A working partnership between business and gov't. Tax breaks and incentives.

Why do you think it is much more expensive to buy a Japanese-manufactured car in Japan than to buy the same car in America? Use the same tactic in reverse.

[edit on 4-9-2008 by jsobecky]



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 04:42 PM
link   

Originally posted by jsobecky
You are wasting your efforts. They live under a blanket of fear, a blanket that Obama threw over their heads. They fear the challenges, the work needed.. they fear the ultimate success.

They would much rather have Obama Nation (Abomination) take care of them from cradle to grave. This is the essence of socialism.


Meh, I wouldn't vote for Obama. I am just trying to be realistic. It is a great idea that drilling US oil will bring down the price, but in reality it is just not that rosy. Like I said before, a self sufficient and energy responsible America is a great thing for the World.

The idea though of demanding the government drill for oil to drop prices is also socialist.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 04:44 PM
link   
reply to post by Rook1545
 


Who suggested having the gov't drill for oil?



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 04:46 PM
link   
reply to post by jsobecky
 


Well the government has to give these companies permission.

You know gas would be a ton cheaper if it was in fact done by government. They would have a vested interest in making sure that the domestic supply and price was reasonable. Of course that is way too socialist for most people.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 04:50 PM
link   
reply to post by Rook1545
 


Just to illustrate your point if I may:

Gas prices around the world

cnnmoney



[edit on 9/4/2008 by schrodingers dog]



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 04:52 PM
link   
reply to post by jsobecky
 


Does the US currently have a working partnership with oil companies for them to sell the US consumer oil at a discounted price? And wouldnt the US consumer be picking up the slack for any tax breaks to the Oil company?

Doesnt this idea go against the free market ideals that many who advocate drilling, hold so dear.

If an oil company made an agreement with the US govt to sell them oil at even 10% under the market rate, dont you think that the oil company would want to be reimbursed an equal amount. A private company is responsible to its share holders. If the oil company was not being reimbursed at an equal amount, they would be shorting their own profits at the expense of their shareholders and their board. And lets say the gove does reimburse them the 10% difference. Where is that money coming from? The American tax payer.

You still have not answered the question. You have only proposed a possible solution that currently does not exist and IMO would only be transfering the savings from the pump to a hike yearly taxes of the same individuals.

PUSH

[edit on 4-9-2008 by iamcamouflage]



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 04:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rook1545
reply to post by jsobecky
 


Well the government has to give these companies permission.

You know gas would be a ton cheaper if it was in fact done by government. They would have a vested interest in making sure that the domestic supply and price was reasonable. Of course that is way too socialist for most people.


I have to disagree with you, Rook. History has shown that competition drives prices down. Private industry always outperforms gov't bureaucracy. Any time gov't gets involved, it becomes a pork barrel for self-serving politicians.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 04:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by jsobecky
I have to disagree with you, Rook. History has shown that competition drives prices down. Private industry always outperforms gov't bureaucracy. Any time gov't gets involved, it becomes a pork barrel for self-serving politicians.


that is true in most cases, but I would argue that commodities are a different beast. These companies put them on the open market and it is up to the distributors to buy them and sell them back.

If government took care of its people first and then sold the excess on the market it would allow for cheaper gas.

Even if the government still sold it at an inflated price that was over what it should b, but under we have now, that excess money could be used for infrastructure and other things that your taxes would normally go towards.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 05:00 PM
link   


I'm assuming they don't teach oil futures, cartels, hedge funds, forex, government subsidies, shipping fluctuations, re-insurance, and arbitrage at the University of Phoenix Online.

So just look at the cnnmoney link I provided above. All you need to know is that gas goes in car.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 05:01 PM
link   
reply to post by jsobecky
 


But didnt you just suggest a working partnership between the govt and oil companies to sell US consumers oil at a ceaper price? This is not fair competition as you suggest works best. This is price manipulation. Which companies get this deal? Whichever company it is, that company now has no competition with any other companies.
Does the govt have exclusive deals with other private companies, to ensure the US consumer is getting a better price on any other products. I want my govt discounted Nikes? And my govt discounted LCD tv.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 05:05 PM
link   
reply to post by iamcamouflage
 



Originally posted by iamcamouflage
Does the US currently have a working partnership with oil companies for them to sell the US consumer oil at a discounted price? And wouldnt the US consumer be picking up the slack for any tax breaks to the Oil company?


No and no. My idea is to allow oilcos to get market price in the US. The goal is to make us totally self-sufficient. Any exported oil is subject to an export tariff, paid by the oilcos, and ultimately by their foreign customers.



Originally posted by iamcamouflage
Doesnt this idea go against the free market ideals that many who advocate drilling, hold so dear.


Good point. However, the US has never been a completely free-market economy.


Originally posted by iamcamouflage
If an oil company made an agreement with the US govt to sell them oil at even 10% under the market rate, dont you think that the oil company would want to be reimbursed an equal amount. A private company is responsible to its share holders. If the oil company was not being reimbursed at an equal amount, they would be shorting their own profits at the expense of their shareholders and their board. And lets say the gove does reimburse them the 10% difference. Where is that money coming from? The American tax payer.


As I said, I'm not asking for discounted gas.


Originally posted by iamcamouflage
You still have not answered the question. You have only proposed a possible solution that currently does not exist and IMO would only be transfering the savings from the pump to a hike yearly taxes of the same individuals.


As it stands today, the US has no cohesive energy plan. This is a huge failure of our gov't officials and politicians. It is a matter of national security. I have offered some suggestions to begin creating a policy. It does not answer all the questions, true, but then I am not an energy expert. I am merely applying common sense to a problem.

We need a detailed, achievable plan to reach energy independence. Brazil did it; so can we. That should be a top priority of the next administration.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 05:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rook1545
You were the one that brought up funding foreign economies. Either you buy the oil directly from them and support them, or let your companies drill for oil and support them. I guess you forgot you typed that part. You brought that up, not me.

its very simple, even a caveman can grasp it, but it is beyond you. we drill our own, we become less dependent on foreign whims. we also create jobs for americans, good paying jobs... feel free to obfuscate the very simple, even further


as someone who has worked in the oilfield and seen the construction of these places, no it is no a guess. It is what happens. You, again were the one that brought up the point that this would create more jobs for Americans, I am saying it would have little effect.


i was the night manager at mcdonalds in my youth, that doesnt make me an expert in the fast food industry.

you're saying no americans worked on rig construction and operation? arent you a yankee?


You just don't get it do you. It doesn't matter if the US pumps the oil out of it's land. If the company can get a better price for it in Turkey, they will sell it there. There is no guarantee that Americans will see any of the oil pumped from their land. Maybe you have the ADD, you can't seem to stick to your own talking points.


drilling our own would call for new laws to be passed, with market-centric stipulation, no doubt... that cant be beyond your imagination? adding that much more oil to the market originating here would still be a very good thing, cheaper to refine it and use it here, rather than shipping it overseas, obviously


It was too easy because you lost track of your own thoughts before you posted. Next time try to remember what you have said already. As you can see any non sequitur and red herrings are really just refutation of your "facts".


fact, again; american produced energy = less dependence on foreign energy, i've managed to maintain coherence, you're suggesting that some jobs will go to non americans, i say big deal. you suggest that some exxon stockholders are foreign, i say, big whoop, you stray from assertion i forwarded, because it cannot be refuted directly...

all you can do is diffuse the premise into something it isnt...

still no good reason for not drilling... just some sourpuss negativity that doesnt add up to very much at all



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 05:14 PM
link   
To emphasize the point that domestic oil will be cheaper, look at other oil-exporting countries that have more oil than they can use. They have very low gas prices.

Transportation costs add significantly to the price of energy, and are paid by the end consumer.




top topics



 
10
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join