Palin is no Clinton

Hillary Clinton vs Palin, what’s to gain?

So McCain’s choice for picking Palin was influenced greatly by the need to gain the women vote. It cannot be experience and it certainly cannot be her policies. It is no secret that a small fraction of the Democratic voter population, those primarily Hillary supporters, are still disgruntled at the reality of Hillary's loss of the nomination, but all McCain did was pick an ultra conservative VP that appeals to his already strong base. Well how effective will Mrs. Palin be in getting those Hill supporters? Is McCain’s choice for purely biological reasons, logical? Will Palins gender really bring in those votes?

The only similarities between Mrs. Palin and Sen. Clinton is that their both biologically female. McCain’s pick is insulting in my opinion, how can he think by just simply putting a woman on the ticket, the women will just line up? Are women, or Hill supporters to be exact, really that naive to just throw their support around here simply because she is the same gender as Hillary? John, in all my years of political interest, this is by far the most stereotypical political tactic I have seen.... not even your pandering over drilling in Alaska or your sudden care for New Orleans is this stereotypical and obvious.

The vast majority of Hill supporters have echoed my exact feelings here, in fact even those who have great dislike for Obama will defiantly be writing in Hillary on the ticket this year. They are insulted that their voter base is been pandered to in this fashion and I don’t blame them. How far back in time is the McCain camp stuck? Or the GOP for that matter?

www.huffingtonpost.com...
www.youtube.com...

There’s no doubt that there will be a small minority of Hillary supporters who celebrate the idea of McCain’s choice, the difference is that these voters are choosing McCain because they wish only to hurt the DNC. Palin is no where near as similar in policies and values as to Mrs. Palin, that and the fact that Hillary has thrown her support behind Barack Obama:

Hillary
We should all be proud of Governor Sarah Palin’s historic nomination, and I congratulate her and Senator McCain. While their policies would take America in the wrong direction, Governor Palin will add an important new voice to the debate.

It is blatantly obvious that those disgruntled supporters who celebrate Palin were either going to vote for McCain regardless or have other personal grudges against Obama. Still, I feel the need to list down the significant difference between the two. Hillary had a strong supporter base because of her experiences, policies and achievements in life, not just because she was a woman. It would be against that very reason for any Hill supporter to claim Palin closest fits their ideals.

So just how different is Mrs. Palin and Sen. Clinton?

www.sarahpalinisnthillaryclinton.com...

Let’s look at three key issues; Gun rights, abortion and the Iraq war:

Guns

On the matter of guns, Hillary is a strong supporter of sensible Gun control:
www.ontheissues.org...
In 2000 Hillary spoke regarding gun control that:

"Congress should have acted before our children started going back to school. I realize the NRA is a formidable political group; but I believe the American people are ready to come together as a nation and do whatever it takes to keep guns away from people who shouldn’t have them."

And where does Palin stand?

www.ontheissues.org...

Mrs. Palin said:

"I am proud to join the State of Texas in support of the Second Amendment," Governor Palin said. "We need to send a strong message that law-abiding citizens have a right to own firearms, for personal protection, for hunting and for any other lawful purpose."

Yes, Mrs. Palin is for the rights of gun ownership by law abiding citizens (as everybody, right-left is already) but she opposes regulation for it to fall into the wrong hands.

Despite the recent political pandering over guns from Hillary, she has always been a strong supporter of gun regulation.

Abortion

In 2006, Hillary stated that "abortion is a basic right" of an individual:
archive.newsmax.com...

Hillary often describes herself as being in the middle regarding abortion, she feels it should still be an option but should restricted. This could only mean that she is not anti-abortion by the right.

In 2003, Clinton voted "Nay" to prohibit partial birth abortion.
www.senate.gov...

She voted Nay again on an attempt to stript that individual right away.
www.senate.gov...

So Hillary still believes that abortion should be an option, what about Mrs. Plain? It’s no secret where she stands on the matter:

www.huffingtonpost.com...
Well she said "I'd Oppose Even If My Own Daughter Was Raped", so she is as against the abortion as a conservative can get. She’s against it even in the case of rape and incest.

When Clinton supporter abortion in certain circumstances, much of her strong supporters preferred her policy, back inn 2007:
www.gallup.com...

The Iraq war

It is important to note that Hillary supported the war at the time of the invasion and Palin, not in any government office at that time, also supported the war. However Hillary is now very much against the war and has been highly critical of the lies from this administration:
www.washingtonpost.com...
She admitted that the war was a mistake:
archive.newsmax.com...

Palin however is still a strong supporter of the war, she stated that the war was "a task that is from God" himself:
news.yahoo.com...

There is nothing in common between Palin and Hillary Clinton besides their gender. McCain’s choice offers little to no difference in the appeal to Clinton voters, it only further appeals to his base.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by southern_Guardian]

Let’s continue on their differences shall we?

Healthcare

Hillary has always been a strong advocate for universal healthcare; in fact it was one of her core policies for during her campaign.
edition.cnn.com...

On January 2008 Hillary Clinton stated that Healthcare is a "core Democratic principal".

Below may further highlight her plans.
www.politicalbase.com...

As for Palin however, she is against universal healthcare and rather prefers a more privatized move, she can be quoted for saying she is for “flexibility in government regulation that allow competition in health care.”

Her version of Healthcare however has been greatly criticized and only gained a 42% satisfactory rate from those on it:
www.americanprogress.org...

Environment and clean energy

Hillary believes global warming is an issue and cleaner more environmentally friendly policies should be put through into government.

At the Democrats on Environment and Energy convention, Hillary was quoted for saying:

“The U.S. should become clean and alternative energy friendly by the year 2020."

Hillary also said regarding global warming:

"The scientific consensus on climate change is increasingly clear: unless we act to reduce emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases, the planet will continue to warm over the next century, with widespread and potentially devastating effects."

However Mrs. Palin in an interview stated regarding global warming that:

“I’m not one though who would attribute it to being man-made.”

So although there is some belief in global warming from Mrs. Palin, she sees it as man made "if it exists" and sees no need for environmentally friendly energy policies.

Palins opinion here contradicts John McCain’s opinion on global warming as well. After John McCain’s race in Iowa back in January 2008, he stated that:

"I will clean up the planet, I will make global warming a priority."

www.boston.com...

As show above, Palins stance on global warming doesn’t just conflict with Hillary, but McCain himself. This contradicts McCain’s choice, again.

So, let me go down the list again as to why Palin is the complete opposite to Hillary:

Abortion, freedom of choice:
Hillary, yes,
Palin, no.

Healthcare:
Hillary, defiantly
Palin, No.

Iraq war:
Hillary- it was a mistake and should withdraw,
Palin-The Iraq war is in the name of God, supports the war.

Gun regulation:
Hillary, yes.
Palin, no, member of the NRA.

Environment/global warming:
Hillary, Yes something should be done.
McCain, Yes something should be done.
Palin, no, there’s no use because its not man made if it exists.

Any Hillary supporter that thinks voting McCain is their choice must be either confused or in denial of the reality of this situation. McCain couldn’t give care less about Hillary a few months back, his supporters hate Hillary and couldn’t care less about her supporters, until now when they actually need the votes. McCain’s choice is stereotypical and insulting to woman. Are you really going to fall for such political pandering? Never mind voting for Obama, if you don’t want to that fine, but to actually fall for this political tactic the GOP is pulling off here.

Why did you vote for Hillary? Think about that before you make your move, because if there’s one thing I know, McCain and Palin were the politicians most opposed to your values over a month ago.

www.youtube.com...

A vote for McCain and Palin is a vote against Hillary, a vote for McCain and Palin is against the very reason you voted for Hillary in the first place.


[edit on 3-9-2008 by southern_Guardian]

YES!

This is not even apples and oranges...
The contrast is vast between the two.

In fact I would go as far as to say Palin is the ANTI HILL.

I must admit I was nervous prior her "presentation"... I thought she was going to fire off MINI Mccain golden statues at the crowd.

HOWEVER I was left thinking she is NOT ready to take over for Mc.mummy when
his younger brother comes along to reclaim his immortal soul.

How on Earth does anyone in their right minds think the the LADY I just watched
have what it takes???

CHRIST my own dear MOTHER has more presence and depth...


The glorious right has lost its gourd completely!!!

SHE is NO Hillary!

[edit on 3-9-2008 by mental modulator]

reply to post by southern_Guardian


As per usual fantastic OP. Thoughtful, clear, well researched and argued.
As a result it keeps away the trolls and discourages low-intellect participation. Win win if you ask me.

Hillary Clinton, no matter who you speak to, might be disliked, one might disagree with her, or her party's positions, but: Everyone on capitol hill respects the hell out of her.
She is a great legislator. You know, I gave her a hard time for a bit when she couldn't let go towards the end of the primaries, and I have regretted doing so.

In a way I can't add much to this thread because I'm having a VERY hard time putting these two women in the same continent without insulting Hillary Clinton.

All they have in common is their gender. That's it.

I mean honestly are Hill supporters really that... irrational? to vote against the very core foundation they set upon with Hillary?

reply to post by southern_Guardian


I did a thing about that the other day:

www.abovetopsecret.com...





[edit on 9/4/2008 by schrodingers dog]

I dont understand why else he would choose Palin, I mean all she does is further appeal to his own base, I mean whats the point?

Oh, I agree.

She's no Clinton.

One flaw that I see is you're using a known liberal media source who is making the comparison of Palin vs Clinton. In fact, the Democrats seem to be the only ones doing that. We conservatives know there's no comparison. We know Hilary has vastly more experience than Palin does. No one is debating that.

Also, I don't believe McCain's only intention for choosing Palin was because she was is a woman. He could have chosen any number of women Senators, governors, mayors for that purpose. He chose Palin for more reasons than the fact that she's female. Fact is, it's the liberal media that keeps asking the question "Who does John McCain think he is? Does he just think women will jump to his side once they see he has a female running mate?" The liberal media keeps asking that question because they are trying to stir the ire of women voters. It's a tactic the liberals are using because the truth is, they are afraid of what Palin brings to the table. I think McCain knew that once people get to know Palin and hear her on the trail they will like her, and grow to like her every day even more. That's what I believe the liberals fear, and that's what I believe the liberal media, like Huffington Post, is trying to inject.

Originally posted by sos37
Also, I don't believe McCain's only intention for choosing Palin was because she was is a woman.

By the same token, there's no way McCain would have chosen an unknown (even to him) governor of Alaska if he were a man.

It's clear that Hillary supporters aren't falling for this cheap trick. The two women couldn't be more different. Even I like Hillary compared to Palin. Hillary has paid her dues. It's a huge leap between the two.

It's an insult to women to think that McCain can use a woman to garner Hillary voters. It's the most condescending thing McCain could do to women. To think that because the only thing these two women share is gender would get him votes...

well, unless you fellas plan on having only democrats in the white house, forever and ever, amen, you will have to consider comments such as

"Hillary left 18 million cracks in the highest, hardest glass ceiling in America," she said, referring to the 18 million votes Clinton received in the primaries. "But it turns out the women of America aren't finished yet, and we can shatter that glass ceiling once and for all." - Sarah Palin

my question to you is, do you hope we never have a republican in the white house ever again? be careful what you hope for.

Originally posted by sos37
One flaw that I see is you're using a known liberal media source who is making the comparison of Palin vs Clinton.

Which one is that? I cant keep my sources neutral all the time, some are going to come from Left/right leaning sources once in a while. That being said its another thing to post a thread about muslims with sources that seem to only come from rightwing leaning muslim hating blogs and Limbaugh endorsed websites.

In fact, the Democrats seem to be the only ones doing that. We conservatives know there's no comparison. We know Hilary has vastly more experience than Palin does. No one is debating that.

Oh contrar, the whole point of choosing Mrs Palin was to gain that ever important women vote, or Hillary vote to be exact. McCain obviously didnt choose her for her life experiences... he took a gamble to flip flop over his previous core arguement and desperatly went for the women vote.

Now if McCain wanted a fresh face and gender was not the reason at all, he would have been better off with Minnesota governor Tim Pawlenti, but he decided to flip flop over experience talk and choose Palin from a state that is the same population as Louisville, who happens to be female. This is the point of this thread, the show how far apart she is from Hillary and what point was it to choose her to get the Hillary vote. Have Hill voters been voting Hillary purely for her gender? So why choose somebody who only energizes a base you already have?

Also, I don't believe McCain's only intention for choosing Palin was because she was is a woman.

what utter BS, ofcourse he did, why else would he totally flip flop over his experience talk and choose somebody nearly half experienced as Obama, I mean really now? Not to mention, her little speeches in pandering Hillary and her achievements is evident enough. McCain chose her to get the woman vote.

He could have chosen any number of women Senators, governors, mayors for that purpose. He chose Palin for more reasons than the fact that she's female.

Oh yes thats true, I mean she is governor of Alaska, she is a strong advocate in more drilling. You know you have point, this is more than just some political gender stunt, the rabbit hole goes deeper.

Fact is, it's the liberal media that keeps asking the question "Who does John McCain think he is? Does he just think women will jump to his side once they see he has a female running mate?" The liberal media keeps asking that question because they are trying to stir the ire of women voters.

The liberal media is anybody who questions the rightwing machine, the liberal media is anybody that confronts propaganda, the liberal media is anybody who questions McCain because he was a POW, or Palin, or any news state that questions the Iraq war. The logic of this "liberal media" talk is just beyond reason.

Now tell me? Why else did McCain choose Palin for gender? Your telling me Palin has nothing to do with the Hillary vote? Why would he pick somebody who merely further appeals to his already locked conservative base? I mean really now? There was Romney, Tim Palwenti etc. Tell us why?

It's a tactic the liberals are using because the truth is, they are afraid of what Palin brings to the table.

Yes this is all Iv been hearing from righties here, "palin has executive experence" "Palin has more experience" "you are afriad of Palin if you question her" "McCain will win" "mission accomplished". I mean when confronted with the facts against them, righties always close their ears and mumble these things, and yet its so vague and often inaccurate.

And what do we have to be afraid about Palin? Oh I know now, Palin might steal the Bush folk vote away from us oh im sorry, I never knew how important that voting block was to the Democratic party....

I think McCain knew that once people get to know Palin and hear her on the trail they will like her, and grow to like her every day even more.

Alot of people heard her, and the minute they did, McCain began loosing in important moderate states such as Ohio, Indiana and Iowa. People are listening to her already, and it is only the clueless conservative base that seems to be "excited" of having an extreme rightwinger, as if McCain wasnt enough?

That's what I believe the liberals fear, and that's what I believe the liberal media, like Huffington Post, is trying to inject.

Oh its the Huffington post, hey their alright, I love their posts. Yes, theres no fear, just more conservative talk, that is again vague and has no substance.

[edit on 4-9-2008 by southern_Guardian]

Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Hillary Clinton vs Palin, what’s to gain?

Palin is no Clinton?

Thank God.

Originally posted by undo
my question to you is, do you hope we never have a republican in the white house ever again?

It totally depends on the Republican. If Ron Paul was running, I would vote for him now. This isn't about being Republican. It's about the VAST difference in the politics of Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin.

Well, at least someone has gotten something right about Sarah Palin.

She is the absolute antithesis of Hillary Clinton.

Palin might be a feminist, but she's no gender feminist as Hillary is and more than that, she is in politics not because she is a woman trying to break down barriers, but because she wants to lead.

Hillary is a shill for a tired and worthless ideology of hate and retribution.

Sarah Palin is an American who seeks to serve and who also happens to be a woman.

Also, as you noted, Sarah Palin supports the Constitution of the United States. Hillary does not.

Good eye, southern_Guardian, and dare I say it?

A star for YOU!

There, that was a first for me!


[edit on 2008/9/4 by GradyPhilpott]

Actually the same way that I feel that Obama didn't chose Biden for VP I feel that McCain didn't have anything to do with the choosing of Palin.

This is all a circus, I agree with the OP, if Palin was chosen to make the Republican party more appealing to Hillary's followers they chose the wrong person when it comes to the base Hillary was promoting as a politician running for president.

I truly feel that the accomplishments to bring Palin into the board game was more of a desperate attempt to get attention away from Obama's media obsession.

The Republicans did it, they got the attention that they wanted

But is that a good thing? Well no really because we can see how things turned around and against Palin.

It seems that rather of been McCain the center stage as the candidate for president now Palin is the one that seems to be the one running for president as per media attention.

perhaps i can help to clarify some of your thoughts on the matter:

it doesn't matter what position a republican focuses on, if they hold a republican stance IN THE MAINSTREAM, you will not accept them. ron paul wasn't a republican, based on the current definition of it in the mainstream, and i don't think sarah palin is either. not so sure about mccain. there are repubs in the past who both supported and didn't support abortion. same for democrats. so you can't say she's a repub on that basis alone. what's happened is someone waaay up there, decided to divide the nation by stereotyping, clearly demarcating each side, and only allowing people who fit that precise stereotype into the vp and pres positions. we could have moderate democrats. we don't. we could have moderate repubs. we don't. as a result, if you vote democrat now, based on the mainstream interpretation, you will always vote democrat. there will never be a repub you agree with ever again. they did this on purpose.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Well, at least someone has gotten something right about Sarah Palin.

She is the absolute antithesis of Hillary Clinton.

Palin might be a feminist, but she's no gender feminist as Hillary is and more than that, she is in politics not because she is a woman trying to break down barriers, but because she wants to lead.

Hillary is a shill for a tired and worthless ideology of hate and retribution.

Sarah Palin is an American who seeks to serve and who also happens to be a woman.

Also, as you noted, Sarah Palin supports the Constitution of the United States. Hillary does not.

Good eye, southern_Guardian, and dare I say it?

A star for YOU!

There, that was a first for me!


[edit on 2008/9/4 by GradyPhilpott]

Wonderful, you a conservative who will vote McCain anyway, likes Palin. What a benefit to McCain

Whats the point of Palin? You yourself, already part of an established group in the mccain clan. Why does it matter whether you like the woman or not? the point of Palin is to gain Hill voters, not further gain approval from Bush folk who will vote McCain regardless.

Go figure.


[edit on 4-9-2008 by southern_Guardian]

My thoughts... As a disclaimer I will say that I am a fiscal conservative and an ardent Ron Paul supporter.

Mrs. Palen comes across as a real person where Hillary comes across as pure politician. I always felt comfortable with Bill, but have always felt uneasy about Hillary running the show. Call it a gut feeling.

I wouldn't give McCain or Obama my vote quite simply because I think they are both bad for the US. Their VP choices or lack there of make no difference.

However, If I were less informed, I'd prolly choose McCain due to his choice of VP.

reply to post by tmbandt


So your telling me that experience never mattered at all?

What do you like about Palin, in all fairness?