The Evidence For Jesus' Existence Is Nothing But Hearsay

HISTORY, THE TEACHER OF LIFE

Bin Laden and Jesus Christ

If Bush had read "THE FABLE OF CHRIST" and in particular the chapters concerning the revolt of the gruesome and the Messianic revolution and if he had had the experience of the Greeks and the Romans who fought in Palestine against the Hebrew Nationalist Party (Essenes), he would probably have avoided attacking and bombarding the Talebans.
The systems of warfare used today by the Talebans in Afghanistan are the same which made the Essene revolutionaries unbeatable twenty centuries ago.

1) The same exploitation of the territory with its ravines, caverns and mountains which make it impregnable.
2) The same methods of combat such as ambush and sabotage against the occupying troops and terrorist actions against the civilians.
3) The same organisation of guerrilla troops subdivided according to the plan applied by Jude the Aside, son of Mattatia the Maccabean, to fight Antioch 1V, king of the Greeks.
4) The same training centres to form the fighters (Kimberth Qumran).
5) The same search, by one part or the other, for alliances which often turn out for both to be unreliable and treacherous because moved by opportunistic interests.
6) The same political and religious ideals expressed in their books (Today the "revolutionary's manual", yesterday the "Bible".
7) The same martyrs who face death in the certainty that they will be rewarded with a blissful eternal life, and many other analogies which give us the impression of reading, through the FABLE OF CHRIST, a present day chronicle.

All that changes in today's war are the names of the main characters who in reality are identical in their behaviour as those who supported the Maccabean revolt and the Messianic revolutions.
Bin Laden is only one of the many revolutionary leaders, like Jude the Aside, Simon, Gionata, Ezechia, Jude the Galilean, who fought wars in succession against Greece and Rome.
The political and religious similarity between Bin Laden and John of Gamala, descendant of the Asmonites, Messiah and Essene revolutionary leader, who was then transformed into Jesus by counterfeiters in the 2nd century, is traumatising to say the least.
The FABLE OF CHRIST, by showing the analogies between the war being fought today in Pakistan and the revolutions supported by the Essene guerrillas in Palestine, besides giving us an exact idea of today's situation, helps us to understand how the causes which gave rise to these wars are due to that hatred which drives the monotheistic religions to consider anyone who opposes their own plan for universal imperialism as an enemy.
Johannès Robyn, president of the atheist union of France.

Matthew 24
Signs of the End of the Age
1Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."
3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.

26"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[c]

30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

The Day and Hour Unknown
36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

45"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

All the scripture proves what? Quoting the Bible does not prove existence. You know I have to applaud those who have that much faith awe inspiring to say the least but for someone who cannot die as Jesus came back from the dead as we are told why would a person of that power disappear from the face of the earth?

reply to post by AlexG141989


That comment Alex.. To quote Monty Python.. "Running away are you?!"

O O look look, the moderators said you have to follow the rules (Picture of fat 6 year old sucking on a lollipop at recess comes to mind)

Unfortunately for you, there is nothing that the Moderators say as far as asking Why about a question. (Who, What, Where, I'm going to tell on you, When and How right??)

All the contemporary writings about Jesus, especially those official ones by the Romans were gathered up and destroyed. Jesus was a political dissident and the Romans were afraid he would be able to incite the Jewish people to rebellion. He was erased from official history similar to the way the Romans erased any sign of bad Emperors.

Damnatio memoriae is the Latin phrase literally meaning "damnation of memory", in the sense of removed from the remembrance. It was a form of dishonor that could be passed by the Roman Senate upon traitors or others who brought discredit to the Roman State.

en.wikipedia.org...

Everything written about him later was initially passed on orally.

Originally posted by AshleyD
We're talking about things that can be tested by your precious scientific method and things that pass the test of falsifiability.

Specifics please?
Also, please don't resort to discussing atheists, but rather discuss the topic and make your point. I am very willing to accept evidence if there is any. From what I've seen, the story of Jesus is a fabrication. I'm sure you don't take any other religious article serious, but when it comes to the Bible, of course you do.
Ever hear of Hercules? Zeus? What seperates the Bible from any other religious manuscript? Why are there no historical records of Jesus, but rather only records of people writting about the story of Jesus?

Fantastic thread OP. You've really got them pounding that bible and say a few hail mary's for you.

Once again I have to say it. Religion was created by the higher ups to keep us in check. Fear will keep the masses in line.
Unbelieveable stories as told in the bible probably scared the hell out of people years ago. Questioning it would get you in big trouble. Today we can finally look beyond the BS and actually question what has been forced upon us our whole lives. Those that still fear call us non-believers.

I only fear one thing... them.

Sorry for the spelling and punctuation.

End Communication

[edit on 4-9-2008 by DazE777]

[edit on 4-9-2008 by DazE777]

reply to post by moocowman


All i can give you, is personal experiences. A prayer for a sick colleague, who gets healed when anointed with one drop of oil. Plain cooking oil works, if done sincerely and believing. A prayer for another colleague who had a serious case of hypothermia, so much that he needed to be hospitalized. Three hours later, he was back at work, the hypothermia only a memory.

I cannot give you an eyewitness account of Jesus' life on earth; but this is an eyewitness account of His works, two thousand years (+-) after He is said to have lived. As He said, He did miracles, His followers will do even greater things in His Name. Although, i do not know what could be greater than raising the dead.

reply to post by TruthParadox


Everything you asked I've already answered on ATS numerous times (what separates Jesus from Zeus, why do I revere the Bible but not other religious texts), etc. Then I u2u'd you the link to what you want.

And if I sound harsh with the atheists today, my apologies. I'm just sick of seeing the hatred of God and His followers around here and seeing my friends and myself called things like 'sheeple, brainwashed, blind followers, etc.' and accused of being scared, having low intelligence, using our faith as a security blanket, and basically being labeled idiots by inference. Not to mention having our faith constantly dragged through the mud and lied about and when faced with facts or when we totally debunk a skeptic's argument, it only goes from bad to worse. Sorry I'm in a mood today but I'm sick to death of the AT's and being asked a question, assuming the person is sincere, answering their questions, only to be ridiculed or insulted. It seems par for the course.

[edit on 9/4/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by DazE777
Fantastic thread OP. You've really got them pounding that bible and say a few hail mary's for you.

Once again I have to say it. Religion was created by the higher ups to keep us in check. Fear will keep the masses in line.
Unbelieveable stories as told in the bible probably scared the hell out of people years ago. Questioning it would get you in big trouble. Today we can finally look beyond the BS and actually question what has been forced upon us our whole lives. Those that still fear call us non-believers.

I only fear one thing... them.

Sorry for the spelling and punctuation.

End Communication

[edit on 4-9-2008 by DazE777]

[edit on 4-9-2008 by DazE777]

In a sense your right. Its no more than a suppression tactic to keep peoples hopes up of better days or diasters ahead.....

Originally posted by Bone Collector
All the scripture proves what? Quoting the Bible does not prove existence. You know I have to applaud those who have that much faith awe inspiring to say the least but for someone who cannot die as Jesus came back from the dead as we are told why would a person of that power disappear from the face of the earth?

He knew he had to physically go away, so the Spirit could come to everyone.

The Holy Spirit is real. Jesus likens it to living water. In the Gospel of Thomas he refers to it as a bubbling spring. The whole Gospel of Thomas is a testament to the Holy Spirit.

It is what it is - motion and rest. It says at the beginning of Thomas for people to not stop seeking until they find. When you find you will be disturbed, then you will marvel, then reign and then rest.

We're talking physical truth now. Trust me, there are reasons why John's Gospel is often found amongst the gnostic texts. Real disclosure is God and when a person realizes, his lifeblood and your lifeblood are mingling together you will freak out - or as Jesus said "be disturbed."

But like he says in John when the waters are stormy: "Don't be afraid, it's only I."

You people really need to figure these things out on your own. I don't want to give it all away. There is nothing more precious than a new light to shine on you.

Originally posted by mhc_70
So I could logically assertain that you think that the evidence for the existence of all historical figures over 100 years ago is just hearsay.

Thats deep.

Not at all what the OP is saying or what the article is saying. They are simply saying that all historical figures over 100 years ago were documented with 'paper' written by 'eye witnesses' and verifiable. His argument about Jesus (which I am neither supporting nor refuting) is simply that there is not one single document in existence that can be verified as written by an eye witness to the life and death of Jesus. And even more importantly his resurrection. Not one single document written by an eye witness or verified by any form of government documentation.

That's what he is saying. Your immediate and short sighted response shows that you are simply replying with your heart and faith instead of with reason and logic. It's tough to do so when your faith is challenged. I went through this myself my friend.

reply to post by DazE777


This is the real problem. Religion has always had a history of fear. Yet they throw in the hope and love so that people will feel good too. Because too much fear leads to suicide and so on. You don't want to scare the people to death, just want to scare them until death. That way they will keep the coffers of the richest business in the world full.

Okay, just so you know where I am coming from on this I have tried to look at religioun with an open mind. When I do that, which means removing the 'blind faith', I come to a very real conclusion that the major religious bodies are indeed simply in place to control the masses.

Does the local small church participate like this? No. I'm not saying that. I have found many genuine churches throughout this country that actually work soley for the benefit of the communities that they work in. However, the ones that are larger (networked throughout the country) tend to have an agenda. If the local church has to make 'payments' (I guess they like to call these tithes or 'GOD's' 10%) to a parent church then their mission and voice is dictated. They preach what they are told to preach and they do NOT allow for challenges against THEIR interpretations of the gospel.

The Roman Catholic church is the worse offender of this of all. Well, they along with some of the more extreme Muslim branches.

What kills me is the idea that a book can preach/teach one to love the 'All Loving God that values each and every single hair on your head' and then turn around and state that 'he' (obvious male opinionism here) is a vengeful and jealous God.

Makes ZERO sense. And the thought that you have one shot. One single shot in this life to do good (according to the particular religion) or else you will go to HELL. Would an 'All Loving God' truly do this to the children 'He' so loved that he gave his 'Only Son'? How can he be his only son when we are all supposed to be his children too? I mean, there are so many contradictions in this book that controls 'BILLIONS' of lives that I can't believe more people have woken up to it.

Oh well. I believe in a God. I will admit this. I believe in the idea that one should seriously lead a life of loving they neighbor and helping friends, family and strangers whenever one can. I don't believe in needlessly killing any creature be it a human or a fly. Will I flip out if I step on an ant? No. I'm simply saying that this is what I believe a true 'All Loving God' wants of It's people.

Not the ones that constantly fear going to hell or armaggedon. Just live your life to the fullest and try to enjoy every second that you take in breath. Because if this is the only shot you have then why the hell worry about something that may or may not happen? Just live by the very nice standards that the words of 'Jesus' proclaim and treat everyone as if they were a friend or a brother/sister.

I have to laugh at this thread. You people are all looking at the subject of Jesus through very narrow blinkers. Its a very sad attempt to debunk the existance of Jesus.

It is obvious that you know nothing of the spiritual aspect of Jesus today and the way he is very much a part of peoples lives.

Yes, to you he is a figment of our imagination but to the people who have a relationship with him these sort of threads are like listening to a group of school children trying to explain the big bang. They have no concept of the reality of the subject.


Anyway, carry on. I need a little light entertainment sometimes.

if the gospel accounts were true historical reccords can any of the biblical sholars here please explain why the gospel acount with the single biggest impact , namely the claim that :

` the dead arose and walked in jerusulem `

is not mentioned in a single contemprary account , roman , jewish or
gentile

think about that - its akin to a contempoary essay on the history of NY city written in 2004 ommitting any mention of the 911 events

[edit on 4-9-2008 by ignorant_ape]

All I have to say is that just because there is supposedly "no evidence" doesn't mean He didn't exist. there's something called Faith. Also, why would people risk their lives for a fictional person?

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
if the gospel accounts were true historical reccords can any of the biblical sholars here please explain why the gospel acount with the single biggest impact , namely the claim that :

` the dead arose and walked in jerusulem `

is not mentioned in a single contemprary account , roman , jewish or
gentile

think about that - its akin to a contempoary essay on the history of NY city written in 2004 ommitting any mention of the 911 events

[edit on 4-9-2008 by ignorant_ape]

You bring up a great point. There are many other things such as the veil that tore from top to bottom. What about the baskets that were filled with bread? Such things would have been written about, as they had many witnesses. Events do not simply evaporate. I find it extremely unlikely that if such events occured, the gospels would be the only writings of them.

Originally posted by lexafunk
All I have to say is that just because there is supposedly "no evidence" doesn't mean He didn't exist. there's something called Faith. Also, why would people risk their lives for a fictional person?

You said it "Faith" you mention risking their lives what are they risking it for? You know I have seen this argument on a number of Christian sites as well as other sites who have religious related forums and it all ends in the same thing a bunch of mud slinging. And out of all those sites no one has put forth a compelling argument for Jesus existence other than quoting scripture. There are chapters that were left out of the Bible some chapters Moses wrote were not included in the Bible because they were seen as "Occult" remember Moses spent all that time in Egypt and last I recall Egyptians do not practice Christianity. I would like to believe of Jesus existence but after 2000 years of his supposed return and it has not happened I have to be a little skeptical of the prophecy itself. You know you can cry wolf so many times until people ignore you and I think in this instance that is what is happening its been cried so much people have become immune to the hype and turned agianst it.

[edit on 9/4/2008 by Bone Collector]

reply to post by lexafunk


on one level you are correct - absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

but you are utterly incorrect in your other 2 assertions - the act of faith is not evidence - please look up any definition of faith l

lastly you ask - why would people risk thier lives for a fictional caracter ?

the mere act of sacrifice for a cause or idea or peron does NOT validate that cause / idea / person

look sat the heavensgate believers - did thier suicide validate thier beliefs ?

how about the martrys of EVERY non christian religion - did thier sacrifice validate tgier belif system - think about that before answering

people have died with vauis belifs and uttering various slogans , from vive l` france to black power , to allah al akhbar - did the noble jesture make the philosphy they esposed true ?

reply to post by TruthParadox


I'm sure that event would have showm up in Pravda if it were around at the time