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The Evidence For Jesus' Existence Is Nothing But Hearsay

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posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by Bombeni
 


I knew when I asked my question about Zeus to you that you would not even attempt to answer it.
I did it to prove a point.
Many Christians like you are unwilling to even imagine a hypothetical situation in where God doesn't exist.
You would ask an atheist to be more open to the idea of God, yet you yourself are closed to all ideas which might in some way go against God.
Can you say 'dogma'?

Again, if I turn out to be wrong about God, I know exactly what to say, because I've thought it out and I know that what he is doing (assuming he exists) is evil.
Afterall, humans ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and I know that an omnipotent God who allows such things is evil. Not just allows such things, but by his own attributes must have made things to be this way.




posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by TruthParadox
reply to post by Bombeni
 


I knew when I asked my question about Zeus to you that you would not even attempt to answer it.
I did it to prove a point.
Many Christians like you are unwilling to even imagine a hypothetical situation in where God doesn't exist.
You would ask an atheist to be more open to the idea of God, yet you yourself are closed to all ideas which might in some way go against God.
Can you say 'dogma'?

Again, if I turn out to be wrong about God, I know exactly what to say, because I've thought it out and I know that what he is doing (assuming he exists) is evil.
Afterall, humans ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and I know that an omnipotent God who allows such things is evil. Not just allows such things, but by his own attributes must have made things to be this way.


If you knew, then why did you ask? And what point did you make? Is there any regular member here who does not know I follow one God? You knew I would come back and say that the idea of Zues being god is preposterous, and then that would prompt your reply of "well that is just how I see your god" -- there, does that satisfy you?

And to your comment "Many Christians like you are unwilling to even imagine a hypothetical situation in where God doesn't exist.
You would ask an atheist to be more open to the idea of God, yet you yourself are closed to all ideas which might in some way go against God" -------all I can say is Amen to that brother, you took the words right out of my mouth.

But oh, I gotta see this one, Truthparadox telling God He is evil on judgement day. My human nature wants me to say "I'm going to hold you to that one" but my Christian nature precludes it by saying "I hope your heart has a healing before that day comes."



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 04:53 PM
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Yah,

Bombeni just doesn't answer difficult questions.

He just preaches his faithful beliefs, over and over.

K.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by Bombeni
If you knew, then why did you ask?


As I said, to prove a point.


Originally posted by Bombeni
And what point did you make?


That you wanted us to imagine a hypothetical situation in which we were wrong and you were right, yet you wouldn't even think to do the same.
That's the first point I made - the arrogance of blind faith.
The second is that I could ask a hypothetical situation about any diety right down to the flying spaghetti monster.
What does it accomplish?
I've heard so many times "what will you do if you stand in front of God and are proven wrong?"
In this case, the only answer the questioner will be satisfied with is "Oh ok, you're right, I'm sorry. I'm going to play lipservice to God so I won't have to suffer for eternity."
But obviously I've thought about the subject more than you, as you aren't even willing to think about hypothetical situations in which you are wrong.
So because of that, I know exactly what I would say, and I have reasons for why I would say them.
Of course, that's not the answer you wanted, I'm sure.


Originally posted by Bombeni
You knew I would come back and say that the idea of Zues being god is preposterous, and then that would prompt your reply of "well that is just how I see your god" -- there, does that satisfy you?


Somewhat.
But 'preposterous' is in the eye of the beholder.
Zeus was seen as being just as real as God is today.
And in the future, people will see God as 'preposterous'.
In fact, in many places of the world, they do.
And what are these places?
Places that aren't indoctrinated with the belief in God.
Coincidence?


Originally posted by Bombeni
And to your comment "Many Christians like you are unwilling to even imagine a hypothetical situation in where God doesn't exist.
You would ask an atheist to be more open to the idea of God, yet you yourself are closed to all ideas which might in some way go against God" -------all I can say is Amen to that brother, you took the words right out of my mouth.


What sounds good to you (faith) sounds completely different to someone looking on the outside, just as you would question those who blindly believed in Zeus. See point #1.
I think it's important to note that I'm not trying to change your belief, I'm only trying to stop the insanity.
The insanity of telling someone else what they should and should not believe, and that they will go to Hell if they don't believe what you believe.


Originally posted by Bombeni
But oh, I gotta see this one, Truthparadox telling God He is evil on judgement day.


If someone left their son and their son grew up and never knew their father, and then the father's friends tell the son that if they don't believe in the father that the father will torture and kill him, what is that?
When it's a human, it's evil.
When it's God, it's pefection.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:55 AM
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reply to post by Bombeni
 


Your saying "Nice guys finish last" basically.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by AlexG141989
 


I haven't had a chance to read through all the posts in this thread yet - and please forgive me for being thick, but I always thought his name was Joshua (or the Hebrew version of it - pronounced Yahushua). 'Jesus' is simply a much later corruption of the Greek/Latin translation.

Perhaps this is the reason there is no record of Pilate executing anybody named Jesus - or any official record of 'Jesus' for that matter.





[edit on 1/11/08 by Myrdyn]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by Myrdyn
reply to post by AlexG141989
 


I haven't had a chance to read through all the posts in this thread yet - and please forgive me for being thick, but I always thought his name was Joshua (or the Hebrew version of it - pronounced Yahushua). 'Jesus' is simply a much later corruption of the Greek/Latin translation.

Perhaps this is the reason there is no record of Pilate executing anybody named Jesus - or any official record of 'Jesus' for that matter.
[edit on 1/11/08 by Myrdyn]


Well, firstly -
there is no evidence of Joshua, Yahoshua or similar anywhere. All we have is Greek books using the word "Iesous", nothing else. (Of course people called Joshua DID exist, but that's not the issue here.)

Secondly -
there are no records at all.
None.

No records anywhere of Pilate crucifying "Joshua", "Yahoshua", "Iesous", or "Jesus".

There are no records, or contemporary evidence, or archeological evidence of Jesus by ANY name.


Kapyong


[edit on 1-11-2008 by Kapyong]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by Bombeni
If you knew, then why did you ask? And what point did you make? Is there any regular member here who does not know I follow one God? You knew I would come back and say that the idea of Zues being god is preposterous, and then that would prompt your reply of "well that is just how I see your god" -- there, does that satisfy you?


The point is Bombeni - you are just here to preach.
It's getting very boring.

Most notably - we can all see that you are not even CAPABLE of considering you are wrong.

We can get preaching from any church any day, but many of us come here hoping for discussion - yet every time we try to engage you in discussion, you just ignore the points raised and just preach your faithful beliefs again.

*Yawn*


Kapyong



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by Bombeni
 


Bombeni, I actually liked your post about the “rebellious hearts” etc. Although I don’t necessarily agree with it, there seemed to be a genuine positive attempt to give hope to the “lost sheep“, in a way which seemed a bit different to the usual Bible thumping. Thanks, if that was the intention……I often look to see if the Jehovah’s Witnesses have a general feeling of concern and brotherly love when they come around, but am usually disappointed to find they are motivated by some delusional belief that God will prepare a front row seat in heaven for them if they go around bothering people with their version of religion.


I actually like much of the New Testament, as I do many other works of theosophy/philosophy. Perhaps if we were truly intelligent human beings we would live in accordance with it’s message. Though a quick look through the Old Testament gives the impression of a very strange book with its advice on stoning people , rituals, burnt offerings etc. Ether way, to me it was all written by men and the original post in this thread makes some very good, perhaps indisputable points.


Generally I have found that when people I have known “accept Jesus into their hearts” it’s time to look out. Perhaps Jesus is not such a nice fellow, or it’s something else in their hearts that makes them insufferable. Either way I treat them the same as way as I do those who channel Pleiadians.


I see modern religion as a cult, similar to the new age movement only older, more powerful and less "airy fairy". A corruption of something that might once have been useful. I note that many who give faithfully to their religion are middle class or not always well off and console themselves with verses about camels not passing through the eye of a needle. This must have been edited out of the Bibles of those higher up the food chain, who usually do very well out of it all. Either that or the Vatican is just a humble unpretencious little abode - that takes up an entire state. Religious factions with their various organisations have been used to gain power, wealth, and as a way of controlling people for a very long time. The “opiate of the masses”.




[edit on 3-11-2008 by Cogito, Ergo Sum]



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 06:44 AM
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LOL!!! im 27 i have hardly any proof of the things ive done im my life. If you dont take a picture or write something down how can i prove it happened? And when i did its likely its ended up in the bin or destroyed etc...

Jesus had great multitudes following him. why did no one write or document. 2000 years ago only the well educated could write and read. many of whom opposed Jesus so why would they write about someone they wanted removed from this planet.

The things that could have been written would most likely be destroyed over the period of time or have gotten lost.

A child is born in a third world country. The people arround him cant read or write he helps his comunity in many ways. he does not marry or have children. He dies and then is body becomes the earth again. he has no birth certificate and once his generation have passed away. and the memories have gone (Did he exist?)

I only remember the existance of a passed family member because of her children. Brains are like Harddrives they get fragmented and and some data gets wiped.

No one can prove Most things that happend in the past much of it is theory that is classed as fact. most education we are tought is based on one mans ideas. theory then becomes our facts. its a very dangerous thing. Man wants to be as inteligent as a God, but his little brain will keep on making him believe his a decendant of a monkey.

I will prefer the idea we are made in Gods own image. our lifes have purpose. And our existance is to glorify him. other wise the human race is little more than an ant colony. and we may as well not exist. there is no reason to exisit because if there is no God then when we die our life was pointless.

so basicly if Jesus doesnt exist i guess God dosent exist and if God doesnt exisit. then our lives are not worth living because there is no point to life?

Eat Sleep die..... man thats so worth while.

God bless!



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by Kapyong

Originally posted by Bombeni
If you knew, then why did you ask? And what point did you make? Is there any regular member here who does not know I follow one God? You knew I would come back and say that the idea of Zues being god is preposterous, and then that would prompt your reply of "well that is just how I see your god" -- there, does that satisfy you?


The point is Bombeni - you are just here to preach.
It's getting very boring.

Most notably - we can all see that you are not even CAPABLE of considering you are wrong.

We can get preaching from any church any day, but many of us come here hoping for discussion - yet every time we try to engage you in discussion, you just ignore the points raised and just preach your faithful beliefs again.

*Yawn*

Kapyong


Well I disagree, and this is in reply to Truthparadox also. Remember, this thread is about people who DON'T believe in the Gosple of Jesus, and those who DO believe it. My original question was asking if those who don't believe can fathom what they might say/do if when they cease to exist in this life, if they were to discover that it was all true after all. Most everyone here already knows what I believe. But in fact, shortly after my question someone asked me the reverse, "what would I (Bombeni) do/say if I found out is WASN'T all true" and I answered that I would be very happy, as I have relatives who don't believe in the Gospel of Jesus. So the question was answered promptly. But I've just answered it again. I am willing to answer any and all questions posed to me, I guess I just figured that people read thru the posts, and most people don't like reading the same thing over and over.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by Bombeni
Remember, this thread is about people who DON'T believe in the Gosple of Jesus, and those who DO believe it.


No it isn't. It's about the evidence for Jesus regardless of beliefs.


My original question was asking if those who don't believe can fathom what they might say/do if when they cease to exist in this life, if they were to discover that it was all true after all.


Your also wasting time with these hypotheticals since they don't pertain to the REAL point of the discussion.

[edit on 11/3/2008 by Good Wolf]



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by Kapyong

Originally posted by Bombeni
If you knew, then why did you ask? And what point did you make? Is there any regular member here who does not know I follow one God? You knew I would come back and say that the idea of Zues being god is preposterous, and then that would prompt your reply of "well that is just how I see your god" -- there, does that satisfy you?


The point is Bombeni - you are just here to preach.
It's getting very boring.

Most notably - we can all see that you are not even CAPABLE of considering you are wrong.

We can get preaching from any church any day, but many of us come here hoping for discussion - yet every time we try to engage you in discussion, you just ignore the points raised and just preach your faithful beliefs again.

*Yawn*

Kapyong


If I bore you so much, why not just put me on ignore?

And I concede you are so right, I am not CAPABLE of considering I am wrong where my belief of Jesus Christ is concerned. I just can't help myself, for I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Sorry, I just couldn't come up with a better answer on my own.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum
 


Just wanted to say thanks for the friendly reply. I am no Bible scholar but I agree, the Old Testament is a little strange and archaic. My understanding, as limited as it is, is that when Jesus came, it was out with the old and in with the new. Jesus became the "burnt offering" so to speak. Jesus told the accusers who were w/o sin to throw the first stone. Jesus was God's greatest gesture imo, for He loved us so much He gave His own Son for our salvation, which was, again in my humble opinion, an offer we couldn't refuse, well that some of us couldn't refuse I should say.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 11:13 AM
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Anybody think what happen when you die and you find out the God does exist??? The reason you wont find proof of God is becuase he wants us to follow by faith. Satan at one point knew and had proof of God. And still fell away. God knows even if we have proof some of us will fall of.

God needs chilren of faith! Thats why we are god pearls. Becuase we are a generation of God that he does'nt have yet. God needs followers of faith, becuase those are the only ones that would follow rightly. And their are many proofs of the bible which you all ignore.

One way for other I never either too think of the possibility of non existence of God why??? becuase its not true. The fact really if God exist and had a son of God. Their is life after death and a way of salvation. God bless



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by slymattb
 


And yet the 'evidence' for Jesus' existence remains hearsay.
Try again.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by Bombeni
And I concede you are so right, I am not CAPABLE of considering I am wrong where my belief of Jesus Christ is concerned.



Then what exactly is the purpose of a discussion?
You're pretty much saying that you're only here to preach.


But funny thing - the fact still remains:
The evidence for Jesus' existence is nothing but hearsay.
Funny, that.

Try again next time?



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by Myrdyn
reply to post by AlexG141989
 


I haven't had a chance to read through all the posts in this thread yet - and please forgive me for being thick, but I always thought his name was Joshua (or the Hebrew version of it - pronounced Yahushua). 'Jesus' is simply a much later corruption of the Greek/Latin translation.

Perhaps this is the reason there is no record of Pilate executing anybody named Jesus - or any official record of 'Jesus' for that matter.
[edit on 1/11/08 by Myrdyn]


No, the primary reason we have no records is that not much of ANY record survives to this day. Historians agree probably the most common form of record in the ancient world was the pay stub for a Roman Soldier. And there are less than 50 in existance today. People back then, with the notible exception of Jews and Christians, were not obsessed with preserving records like we are today.

With specific reference to Jesus let me quote myself from another post, on the question of why there were no "Contemporary" references to Jesus:




Hardly. The Roman references appear in exactly the timeframe we would expect them to, given the fact Jesus wasn't born royalty, wasn't a war hero, lived in a backwater province in a rural area, didn't come from the proper background that the Hellenistic world deemed necessary to warrent notice, and died a criminal's death. By those standards, we should not have heard of Him at all. There must have been something extraordinary for Him to even get a reference at all. And remember... this was in a world where being a "peeping Tom" was merely being a good neighbor, and rich and powerful people would have sent someone, or gone themselves, to investigate the claims.

As the Jesus "movement" grew it became more noticeable and as such became more "worthy" to write about. We know ALL of the surviving documents from that period ( www.tektonics.org... --- for a thorough B-slap of Remberg's list). The fact we have so much evidence is astounding. We have more and better evidence for the life of Jesus than we do for the existance of Julius Caesar.

And that isn't open for debate.

So your pushback about no contemporary references is a non sequiter - completely irrelevant. We got those references, and a lot of them, right when we would expect to get them.


Hope that helps.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 01:05 PM
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Wow, I never thought this thread would get this long



Anybody think what happen when you die and you find out the God does exist???


Well, have you ever thought what would happen, or how you would react if it was proven that god was not real??? I've noticed most religious people don't even want to contemplate that possibility. And not only is it a possibility, it is a huge probability that the christian God does not exist...



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by AlexG141989
Wow, I never thought this thread would get this long



Anybody think what happen when you die and you find out the God does exist???


Well, have you ever thought what would happen, or how you would react if it was proven that god was not real??? I've noticed most religious people don't even want to contemplate that possibility. And not only is it a possibility, it is a huge probability that the christian God does not exist...


I've answered that one before; If, when I leave this world and were to find out that God is not real, and we are all going to the same place anyway or not going anywhere at all for that matter, it would make me very happy, as I have people that I love who are on your side and it is hard to contemplate not being with them in eternity.

I don't speak about what I believe to be obnoxious or to "preach" as others have said. Believe it or not I speak about the Gospel of Jesus because for me He exists as surely as the air we breathe; we cannot see the air but we know it is there, and I have that same conviction about the Gospel of Jesus as truth. But I know this thread is looking for something more than faith in things that can't be seen so I will stay out of it from here on. (No applause just send money)

[edit on 3-11-2008 by Bombeni]



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