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The Evidence For Jesus' Existence Is Nothing But Hearsay

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posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by norskie
 


The thing I don't get is why people in the Roman Empire after Constantine converted it to chirstianity didn't just invent more evidence, although the Josephus Flavius account might just be that. People have debated the genuineness of this account for along time. But this is speculation.




posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by Bombeni
 


Please let me correct you...


To the nonbelievers, no evidence is possible.

It's "to the nonbelievers, evidence is LACKING"



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 01:40 PM
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I think their is plenty of events supporting Jesus. One I would say is the bible itself. The bible is a history book and it agrees with history this has been proof. History wise the bible has not been prove wrong. So what make you think when it got to the timing of Christ that it went wrong. Don't forget we're finding the tombs of Jesus family isn't that evidents enough??? No where else does it talk about the family of Jesus but its in the bible and where find the tombs now. Dont forget the Prophecies that have come truth and they're not all talking about Jesus. To ignore the bible as evidents is ignoring history. God bless and go with his spirit.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by slymattb
I think their is plenty of events supporting Jesus. One I would say is the bible itself. The bible is a history book and it agrees with history this has been proof. History wise the bible has not been prove wrong. So what make you think when it got to the timing of Christ that it went wrong.


You must be privy to a completely different history that I'm aware of. Is the historical record that you are comparing the bible to... the bible itself?

The bible is a history book.. Haha what a laugh.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 03:42 PM
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You can laugh all you want, it doesn't stop the truth from being the truth!



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by slymattb
 


It also doesn't make you perceived reality truth either. The page linked in the op shows some good examples of how the bible is at a variance with the actual historic record.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 06:26 AM
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way toooo much to sort thru, instead, im going to just get a couple other people, and we're going to write a bunch of stories, ideas, beliefs and doctrines, then we're going to transfer them to papyrus bury them in a cave and cryogenically freeze ourselves to come back 2000 years from now and tell everyone everything we wrote was complete b.s.


i mean think about it
2000 years ago



what do u think people will think 2000 years from now

are they going to watch fraggle rock and think theres a bunch of fraggles running around underground

are they going to watch gladiator and believe russell crowe's character was real

are they going to watch scarface and think tony montana really ran everything and the world was his??

no and you know why, cuz it doesnt matter
it doesnt matter if jesus was real or not
doesnt matter who wrote this crap

what matters is that in that amount of time all the belief of jesus has done is kill murder maim and oppress millions if not billions of people throughout history

everyone has become so bigoted in their own opinions and forcing their ideas on other people that they are blind to their own actions

everyone fights so hard to preach the good word they dont realize everything they are preaching is completely contradictory


if people just watched after one another and we were all our brothers keeper like the bible boasts then all these religions wouldnt be aroudn, all these crusades and holy wars wouldnt be fought,

the only reason we have ANY religion is for control

and for those who are so stuck up about their religion being right

to you all i say is who the hell do you think you are

you're nothing but a peon living in the year 2008, you have NO KNOWLEDGE or INTELLIGENCE to what happened in the past

and instead of everyone focusing so hard on the past if we just looked to the future we could see the light at the end of the tunnel

but instead its the jews verse the christians verse the muslims and islamists in a cage fight to the death

grow up people

live your life

live it spiritually

believe what you want and leave everyone else out of it

we all have every damn right to pray to a porcupine if we so choose so who the hell is anyone else to sit there and fight with someone else over something as small as a idea

the fact theres 50 pages on this is pathetic, we're all arguing over something we have no control or knowledge of and until we die we'll never know the truth

so JESUS people stop holding on to the past and look to the future, because if we dont soon

then humanity wont have one to look forward to


and i leave you with this thoguht

if all your religions are soooo great and true and historically accurate then how come every single major religion has been responsible for the genocide of numerous amounts of different organizations, civilizations, beliefs and ways of life

religion has probably killed more people over the years then any other thing on this planet, yet we all preach our dumb beliefs


DENY IGNORANCE

be your own person

stupid sheep

[edit on 30-10-2008 by Dramey]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 08:33 AM
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I would appreciate it if some of you nonbelievers will indulge my curiosity. I'm not going to come back and pick apart any replies I might get, it's just that inquiring minds want to know:

If, when you leave this existence, you find yourself standing in front of God and His Son and suddenly realize it was all true after all, how do you think you'll react? I know it is not easy to say what we would do in a situation we've never encountered, but do you have an idea at least?

Would you tip your hat and say 'well it's not like the information wasn't out there' and "take it like a man" or do you imagine you will be as angry that it IS true as you were when you thought it wasn't?



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by Bombeni
If, when you leave this existence, you find yourself standing in front of God and His Son and suddenly realize it was all true after all, how do you think you'll react? I know it is not easy to say what we would do in a situation we've never encountered, but do you have an idea at least?

That's a hard question to answer. You see, I do believe in "God," just not in the bible. If I find myself face to face with him, I would trust him to understand.
I know you mean that what if it was true that there is hell and I come face to face with Jesus. It just won't happen. If (hypothetically) it turns to be true, then I would be more disgusted than surprised. Infinite punishment for finite transgression? Logic breaks down right there. It just ain't happening.



Would you tip your hat and say 'well it's not like the information wasn't out there' and "take it like a man" or do you imagine you will be as angry that it IS true as you were when you thought it wasn't?

Can God blame us for not finding sufficient evidence? Remember doubting Thomas?

I have a question for you. How would you react that after death, you realize that we are all infinite spirits and there are no hell and punishment? How would you react when you discover that God is truly love and loves all of us regardless?



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


Can God blame us for not finding sufficient evidence? Remember doubting Thomas?

I have a question for you. How would you react that after death, you realize that we are all infinite spirits and there are no hell and punishment? How would you react when you discover that God is truly love and loves all of us regardless?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can slice dice or wedge this thing till the cows come home. IF it turns out true that God did put into place a plan for your salvation, by sending His flesh and blood son as a ransom to take the punishment for your sin, and you chose to reject His offer, the blaming phase will be long over. You will have had sufficient time to mull this thing over.

About your second question, first let me point out that God DOES love us all, He has proven that substantially imo. And truly, I hope your hypothetical suggestion that Jesus was tortured and crucified for nothing and we were all going to spend eternity with God anyway is true; I have people I care for very much who think exactly as you do.

[edit on 30-10-2008 by Bombeni]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 01:23 PM
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I am not a disbeliever that Christ existed historically, the truth is I can’t really be sure either way. Though I tend to think he did. Not sure what he would make of modern Christianity though.

What if, when you leave this existence, those who you stand in front of and who mete out divine justice do not care one iota who or what you believed or did not believe in. Only what you did or did not do?


Without wishing to offend anyone, I find Gandhi’s point of view amusing, and sometimes accurate - “I like your Christ. I don’t like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ.”


[edit on 30-10-2008 by Cogito, Ergo Sum]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by Bombeni
If, when you leave this existence, you find yourself standing in front of God and His Son and suddenly realize it was all true after all, how do you think you'll react? I know it is not easy to say what we would do in a situation we've never encountered, but do you have an idea at least?


I would ask him if the punishment truly fits the 'crime'.
I would ask him why he created us to live by physical means and then punishes us for living as we were created.
I would ask him why he created my logic to tell me that he doesn't exist if in fact he does, and in doing so, how does that make me worthy of eternal suffering.
I would ask him if he feels anything like Hitler.


I would also like to ask you a question.

If, when you leave this existence, you find yourself standing in front of Zeus and His Son Hercules and suddenly realize it was all true after all, how do you think you'll react? The evidence was right in front of you the whole time after all. We have lightning. According to early testimonies, this proves Zeus' existence.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by Cogito, Ergo Sum
I am not a disbeliever that Christ existed historically, the truth is I can’t really be sure either way. Though I tend to think he did. Not sure what he would make of modern Christianity though.

What if, when you leave this existence, those who you stand in front of and who mete out divine justice do not care one iota who or what you believed or did not believe in. Only what you did or did not do?


Without wishing to offend anyone, I find Gandhi’s point of view amusing, and sometimes accurate - “I like your Christ. I don’t like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ.”


[edit on 30-10-2008 by Cogito, Ergo Sum]


Thankfully, our salvation no longer hinged on what we did or did not do, when Jesus came with the good news that He was the way, the truth and the life and that believing in Him would give us everlasting life with Him. These 50+ pages are all about whether or not to believe. [Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.] God allowed Jesus to bear our punishment. What more does He have to do? At what point does it become fair to you guys? He gave us life and then He Himself experienced the most unspeakable torment and grief in order to devise an escape for us. If you are a parent, you know what you would do for your child, and that you would lay your life down for him/her. But if your child grew up and spit in your face and refused to acknowledge you as mom or dad, what are you gonna do? You aren't going to take a baseball bat to them and force them love and honor you. God isn't going to force us either, He wants to be loved, I can't say He is being unreasonable.

It's all about the belief thing, imo we have the easy part. God is the one who got the short end of the stick.

[edit on 30-10-2008 by Bombeni]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by Bombeni
What more does He have to do? At what point does it become fair to you guys?


It is 'fair'.
But it's a story.
Santa Claus is a nice guy too.


Originally posted by Bombeni
If you are a parent, you know what you would do for your child, and that you would lay your life down for him/her. But if your child grew up and spit in your face and refused to acknowledge you as mom or dad, what are you gonna do? You aren't going to take a baseball bat to them and force them love and honor you. God isn't going to force us either, He wants to be loved, I can't say He is being unreasonable.


That's all good and well, but that's not why an atheist is an atheist.
I could ask you:
What more does Hercules have to do?
He came here to Earth and became a mortal and suffered many things for us humans and then returned to Zeus in the heavens.
Hey... sounds a bit familiar...
Does that mean anything to you?
No.
Because FIRST AND FOREMOST you have to determine if Zeus and Hercules are real.
Likewise, an atheist has no evidence or anything to verify God or Jesus.
All we have are words.
Would you follow Zeus if someone told you that he loves you? Would you follow Zeus based on testimonies which are thousands of years old? Would you follow Zeus because his son Hercules was so nice in the fable?

Your answers to these questions directly mirror an atheists perspective on God.
Yet I have yet to see a Christian that can grasp that fact.


Also, I answered your hypothetical question, and I'd like it if you answered mine:

If, when you leave this existence, you find yourself standing in front of Zeus and His Son Hercules and suddenly realize it was all true after all, how do you think you'll react?



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by Bombeni
 


Why are we wasting our time discussing this stupid wager? We know it's a logical dead end.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by Bombeni
 


Bombeni, I respect your position and beliefs, but I see things differently. God isn’t going to force us to honour him with a baseball bat. No, instead he will condemn us to eternal and everlasting torment in the bowels of hell for not believing words in a book. A loving parent ? I just don’t think it works this way.


Perhaps for salvation, more than belief is necessary to make the grade. If we were allowed into “heaven” with everlasting life in our present state there would quickly become crooked business opportunities, factions, political affiliations, pecking orders, power grabs, wars, perhaps even a coup d'etat with god being usurped and thrown to his enemies. The corruption might have no limit. Especially if heaven contains any oil. Heaven might need to be “liberated”. Though at least this might discount the belief that we could do these things with “God on our side”.


Perhaps if Christ were to return and look around, he would be very saddened to see how his message has degenerated into a mere form of belief, and what is espoused in his name. To me, if Christ did live in the Holy Land 2000 years ago it was not to form an organised religion. Men create religions and rigid doctrines.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 11:31 PM
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You know its like this! It big gamble life after death. And where you spend it is your own choice. You want to blame Christianity for its beliefs and sins its caused! Well the fact is their is no one who has sin.

Cathics sin. Islam sins. All have sin. all religions has kill many! The question is who does God back up.

You dont want to believe in the bible fine. Then you ignore the fact that the bible itself (which you all know) was written by many wrighters. And it all agrees with history. When it talks about a king or city, it was their. All of it agrees with history over a thousand years old. And thats not evidents enough for you!!!!! What about the dang Phophecies??? are you that blind! The bible prodicts history over 2000 years old. And you still want to be blind??

Say what you want but there is proof, if you want to see it. There is a God creator of all and he had a Son Jesus Christ. And the Bible is the word of God. It does'nt matter because God has proven himself more than once to his people, and he'll do it again. And he will prove it to you!

Lets take a test!!!! For some of you non believers who don't believe and do this. If you want to know the truth, why dont you pray or ask God! It cant hurt you! If he does'nt exist, you just wasted words! But if he does exist you gain everything. Pray and ask God for the truth of him, and the truth of the bible, and the truth Jesus. Dont forget the truth of Religion period. (keep in mind this cant hurt you) So pray, if you dont want to pray talk to him. Be honest. And see what happens. Dont be a wussey try and see where it gets you. Just after you do it keep a open mind.

God bless and Go with his spirit!



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by slymattb
 


Well scribes all around the world record history and every religion has prophesies. The bible is not a very good historic record. A lot of the old testament is debatable or outright wrong, talking about cities that were never their or calling small towns huge cities like Jerusalem. It's been edited willy nilly as well.

And your test? Well it hasn't worked in the 15 years I've been doing it.

[edit on 10/30/2008 by Good Wolf]

[edit on 10/30/2008 by Good Wolf]



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 02:02 AM
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reply to post by slymattb
 


Slymattb, The Bible could be considered by many to be a poor historical record. As a prophetic book it doesn’t seem even on par with Nostrodamus to me, and his quatrains are gibberish. God may well exist. A Saviour - “The Son of Man” might also be a reality. The fact is that the original post definitely seems to be a reality. There seems no first hand historical account of Christ as proof of his existence, though the havoc wrought by Christianity since then seems well documented.


There are many factions of Christianity, often at odds with each other, yet all read the same book. If it comes down to faith, then blind faith to me is no faith at all. This is the beginning of fanaticism. Faith built on knowledge is different. I don’t know who God backs up. Christ, Krishna, Buddha, Mohammed, Zoroaster, Osiris, Quetzalcoatl ? If you have the experience and knowledge to know without doubt that you speak the truth you are fortunate. Many do not, despite efforts. The truth of religion might have nothing to do with accepted beliefs, organisations, stories or dogma.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 10:40 AM
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Jesus said "the first shall be last and the last shall be first" -- that seems a little confounding but I think it is exactly what it says. The people who think they are just and without fault in the face of God have possibly forgetten about God's mercy, or have placed themselves outside the realm of needing God's mercy. The Apostle Paul wrote that "God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all" -- I think the rebellious heart who eventually comes to God strives more than the so-called just, to find favor and forgiveness from God, and they, imo, have the most gratitude towards God in their heart, for never giving up on them. They are the ones who will end up being "first" imo. So I just wanted to add that you rebellioius hearts, when and if you realize God loves you and wants you to spend eternity with Him, there's going to be a huge celebration waiting for you when you meet God. Just like the parable Jesus told about the son who left and squandered all his inheritance, when he returned broke to his father the father ordered the fatted calf to be served up, and a huge party was held.



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