The Evidence For Jesus' Existence Is Nothing But Hearsay

Originally posted by mhc_70


They did not debunk them, the author offered his opinion of a possibility as to why they wrote about Jesus.

You read and interept things shaped around your opinions, not the facts.

Is that not exactly what has kept the christian religions in circulation all these years? Reading and interpretting things shaped around opinions and absoloutely no facts.

reply to post by AlexG141989


Great thread, very interesting. The OP has done a great job of researching in order to back up the statement unlike so many threads around here these days.

All religion is hearsay. Its like Chinese whispers, one person tells a story and then another tells that story to someone else. Over time that story changes and others bits get added in and taken out until the whole story holds some kind of solid ground. Though people will shrug my opinion off as they are probably Christians themselves or any religion for that matter as they are the people who like to think there loved ones have gone to a better place but the fact is. People die and thats it. Until people understand that, then people will continue to not live their lives to the full. So now they sit at home and worry over trivial things and hope and prey that some god is out there watching them. I will tell you who is god, you and me are god. We all are god! We get to choose whether life exsists and we get to choose how life pans out. Though religion likes to not make us think like this, rather religion makes us prey for death. People really are stupid these days.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS RELIGION!

[edit on 4-9-2008 by MyCommentMatters]

[edit on 4-9-2008 by MyCommentMatters]

reply to post by AlexG141989


any argument an Athiest brings up can be used about man most if not ALL historical figures

david

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by Godwatchingus
Your head is full of piss!

What he said!

Too bad we can't give negative stars, I would give you both one. I've seen so many posts (not so much on here) where Christians are saying awful things to non-belivers or whatnot.

What does that show the non-believer? That we practice what we preach? Sir, if you are going to have an avatar that states GODWATCHINGUS, you best read it again. He is watching us. I am a deciple of Christ and I would never say anything like that to ANYONE, no matter what the offense. Everyone deserves an opinion. I don't care if it is wrong! Its his right, no.. his God-given right, to believe what he wants. And if you think telling him his head is full of something is going to pursade a person that Jesus existed I suggest you rethink what you are saying.

I hope all on this forum will not take what this person said to be believed by all Christians. I assure you it is not.

Again all, I think the people who believe Jesus is a myth say that ONLY because they have something against Religion in and of itself. I can understand that. But PLEASE think a little. Just about anyone of your arguments could go to prove that anyone in ancient history didn't exist.

I truly believe it is safe to believe Jesus existed. If you have problems with the rest of it..fine. That is your belief and your entiltled to it. But you will NEVER prove that Christ never existed. It can't be done.

reply to post by AlexG141989


Excellent post. Well thought-out and well put together. I've found it pointless to argue with Christians, Catholics and the like. They're too wrapped up in their beliefs and most-likely have some sort of psychological disorder (the fundamental ones). They will refute you at every turn with baseless claims that have no historical or scientific accuracy. Is that to say they're wrong? I guess I'll find out when I die.

[edit on 4-9-2008 by DocEmrick]

reply to post by thedigirati


Great reply Thedigirat,

Could motivation be found at the Council of Nicea?, it would appear that this is where Jesus was truly born/created


Ps love your avatar she has got to be the most sexiest headless babe on the planet ! If I had a dream headless babe it would be her. 10

i think having the faith to believe its true is the key.

Strangly enough, last night, i sat and watched the Tom Hanks classic The Di Vince Code again (was nothing on)


i think it really comes down to blind faith or "feelings"
iv tried the religious things, couldnt find it.


i think if you put your mind to it you can believe in anything.

as we know well from being in here.

One thing that annoys me is a proclaimed religious person shouting and having a go at people. surely a religious person would respect the views and opinions of others.

Originally posted by mhc_70
What motivation would anybody have to write about Jesus unless he was real?

Say hello to the biggest (and longest) conspiracy of man.

Why would the Romans go to the trouble of writing and disseminating such a text? The Jewish War, culminating in the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in 70 CE, had devastated the Mediterranean economy, and the Romans were anxious to prevent another messianic outbreak, which could easily lead to another 500,000 deaths-as the Bar Kochba revolt would demonstrate a generation later. In order to make any reconstruction of the country lasting, the Romans needed to offer the Jews alternative stories that would distract them from the messianic messages inherent in the Torah, and persuade them to accept Roman values.

Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s

It all makes sense now doesn't it? I'm sure the Romans at the time had no idea that their conspiracy of a Jewish messiah would come so far. Every single "historical evidence" you give is based on the writings by the Romans. A modern day equivalent would be if the government staged a terrorist attack using CG and sent it to all the news stations. Of course we would all base our opinion on what the TV said, just as Jews believed what was written about the messiah they had been waiting so long to come. They were primed for such an event.

So, how do we know that it was written by Romans? Well you see, when they wrote it, they were very clever. Many of the stories of Jesus' adventures parodied battles which the Romans had won over the Jews.

They called it in Greek evangelion, a technical term meaning "good news of military victory." In English, it is translated as "gospel." The name is in fact ironic humor: the Romans were amusing themselves with the notion of making the Jews accept, as the actions of the Messiah Jesus, what were in fact literary echoes of the very battles in which the Romans had defeated the Jews' armies. A further joke was buried in unmistakable parallels between the life of Jesus and that of Titus: in worshiping Jesus, the Jews who adopted Christianity, as it came to be called, were in fact hailing the Emperor of their conquerors as god.

For more info on this, check www.caesarsmessiah.com... .
Very interesting stuff.

Originally posted by Manasseh
It's ironic to me.

People don't question the story about King Herod killing all the first-born.

Why do you think he killed the firstborn??

Dude other than the gospels can you please point me in the direction of evidence that Herod did infact commit this act of mass geanocide.

I've been rooting round history and archeological type places , but yet have found no evidenc of this event having taken place, no mass graves or corpses or mentions by roman historians and such.

Where did you get this info coz if it's true it would indeed shed a little light on my swede

reply to post by iiinvision


Nice response what in your opinion was jesus a metaphor for ?

Do you think that if the bible , apart from the alledged words of the alledged jesus was dumped, the the metaphor would still hold it's meaning?

reply to post by Alienmojo


I quote you:
“Again all, I think the people who believe Jesus is a myth say that ONLY because they have something against Religion in and of itself”
I have to correct you there, not all people think this way when confronting the arguments of Jesus existence or not.
You have to ask your self why this people are reacting this way in conflict with religion, and as you have invited people to “think a little”. Then do the same and ask you’re self in which Jesus you believe? Is it the really true Jesus or is it a Jesus that you have connoted through old scripture and theological essays.
I think people have the right to questions the existence of Jesus, because it is undoubtedly lacking of historical certainty not like the existence of Nero or other historical related figure. You have to admit that something very funny happen on the way to Nicaea.
If the NT was the real teaching of Jesus consequently his existence will never be questioned, but it is not…and you know why the NT is not the real teaching of Jesus? Because I have not seen any thing that Jesus did, been replicated after his time or in our time contradictory from his most revealing quote. You know which one I am talking about?

Kacou.

Originally posted by Alienmojo
Also, please remember that all the sources that I have sited HATED Christians! They had no reason to lie to perpetuate a myth of a man that they despised. Think about it, really.

Refer to my previous post. They may have hated Christians, but to them it was as real as the news. Not because they saw it for their own eyes, but because it was fabricated by Romans in an effort to distract the Jews.

Originally posted by anti72
ever heard of archeology, my friend?
www.allaboutarchaeology.org...
you can google and there are many sites.

Sorry, but that's not close to evidence. I read that link, and all it is is evidence for places that are mentioned in the New Testament.
If I wrote a book and said that a pink unicorn existed, and visited the White House, then 2000 years from now, people like you would excavate the White House and conclude that a pink unicorn must have existed.

Not when you are in an argument, not when it has influence on the entire world... When that is the case, you can say bye to faith, now you need proof. reply to post by AlexG141989


This is probably the most important response of this thread, given the dreadful mess our world is in right now with non religious people having to suffer because of the beliefs of a minority.

For the sake of childrens' future the world needs to bury the unprovable until absolute proof is available.

How much of a stretch of the imagination would it be that , if as a species we continue to conduct our lives according to these types of unprovable and unworkable religous beliefs. That given the right circumstances our great grandchildren could be worshipping the god Spiderman that they found in a tattered old comic book.

Christians can argue their point forever but at the end of the day, a simple observation of how humanity has conducted itself since the inseption of religion will clearly show that -

" It has NOT done what it CLAIMS to have set out to do, It does NOT work based on what we say we would have it do"

Originally posted by Societalgnorance
To anyone who questions whether Jesus existed...........

(By the way I don't consider myself Christian but I believe in Jesus and his good will)

-No figure in history has been discussed more often than Jesus Christ

-No one's name itself, is uttered more often than Jesus Christ's name

-It's been over 2000 years since Jesus, yet his name and legacy are around most of us all day....(you might not even realize it)

He existed.

Based on your logic it would be fair to anticipate that in another 2000 years time Santa Clause or Ronald McDonald could be in the running forthe position of god.

Just read through 5 pages of religious motivated arguments baised with faith and anti-thiests in a ring of pride with a smidge of reasonable post aswell.

I'm so pleased this thread went up. I read the same essay at nobeliefs.com a few months ago and I found it revolutionary. It was partly the reason for this thread that I put up a few days ago.

On the subject of the messiah. I watched a docco a while back about rival messiahs during the time of JC and all their followings. Jesus and his posse' was a sect, one of many. Even John was considered a Jesus rival. He was simply a teacher, like any spiritualist of the times, even today.

Many of these groups will be extreme/revolutionary or otherwise significant enough to have been written about. Often the writings would've had contrasting angles and interpretations which inspired small amounts of conflict (especially after the leaders were gone).

The natural course of things shows that the small groups are anti establishment (or who ever holds power over people) which is why if indeed JC was killed would be why--- the exact same reason that Socrates was killed, corrupting the youth and criticising the establishment.

Jesus in reality, won't have been significant until the 4 century when Rome adopted Christianity. Of course, this being a conspiracy board, we all know how much those in power love to ensure they stay in power and are always willing to tread on the little guy. He became significant because the church took the story of Jesus and turned it into a myth about a God on Earth whom had supernatural powers and was "The only Way".

I'm sure you can see the problem arising. We all know what happened when people through history went against the theology of the catholic church, they got accused of heracy and sometimes killed.

Using the general mechanics of propaganda, the church "produces" people who don't challenge the state, dont challenge the church, dont challenge the status quo or even themselves.

These kind of people are really really easy to rule. As a result, all western culture becomes infested with ancient brain washing.


I think he existed but wan't much more significant than the local preacher.

[edit on 9/4/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by TruthParadox


Thanks for the link, it sure explains alot.

The Romans did an amazing job to fabricate this religion by borrowing, manipulating and then putting together, stories, events, cultures and religions inorder to decieve, pacify and control the population, which might explain the many inconsistencies in there.

Their success is staggering, an agenda and a deception that last to this very day.

The decievers must have realized by now that this deception cannot conquer the world and would not last forever, therefore they try to implement the next stage of their plan, 'The New World Order' to possibily replace and/or to destory this fabricated religion plus all other religions and cultures for a better, more central control system.

Many of the terrible atrocities done through out history by mankind to each other, may have been just another step of this ancient design/agenda that which is still going on to this very day.

But I find it unlikely that we alone had the genius to see, much less plan so far ahead into the future with the patients to carry out such an amazing grand design over so many generations to fulfillment, the true source of the problem may not be human? (that is if you believe in extra-terrestrials)

Thanks for the eye opener. my 2 cents.

[edit on 4-9-2008 by ixiy]

Interesting, Jesus was or not could have been a carpenter because all the structures at that time were either stone or mud brick so it would fall in line that he would have had to be a stone mason or bricklayer....

First there was Osirus, then the calf, manna, then jesus.
Next there will be a new name.
In Genesis you are told that gold is "good aromatic resin, in numbers you are told that manna is resin, in exodus (32) you are told to burn the golden calf to powder and grind it and feed on it.
Same story in Deutronomy (9).
In Revelation (2,3,4,5,6) you are told a few things.
In the text of "Adapa and the food of life" you are told some more (this predates the biblical stuff).
Jesus is allegory, Jesus is the white stone, the hidden manna, the morning star.
The times and signs are references to the method, the "mount burns with fire" (deut).
Osiris dates and times of life are identical to Jesus (Massey) because they both refer to the same process, same goes for all those other "gods".
Jesus or Osiris is what animates your body into life and allows you to take part in this discussion.
The philosophers call it "our stone".
So does anyone know of a good bread recipy?

^^^

(it made me type "illuminate" before it would let me post. Was that a trick question)?