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The Evidence For Jesus' Existence Is Nothing But Hearsay

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posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:39 PM
reply to post by AshleyD

I don't see how you can say it has nothing to do with geography in a serious tone. Just look at the statistics. Those born into a world where Buddha is law more often than not accept it as a child would, as they are children. This is just a fact, it has nothing to do with personal belief. Just check the numbers. I'm not arguing that people can't convert. Christians have converted to Buddhists and vis versa. This is simply due to the fact that the new god they find lines up with their view of god or how the world should work.

I never have and never will call anyone of any faith sheeple. The fact that religious people at least attempt to embrace the truth is far more than I can say for those who just don't seem to care. I have nothing against your religion, but is it really wise to simply accept something without question? If you do this, you are most likely going to be wrong, except on the off chance that whatever you accept happens to be right.

Also, you make it seem like if a person has faith in a false god, then they will come to know that they are serving the wrong god, and then convert to Christianity. This simply isn't true. Look at the muslims who, for the most part, have greater faith than Christians do. There's nothing anyone could tell them that would persuade them that they are wrong. They're just as 'child like' in their faith as any Christian is. They believe in something they can't prove but only feel is right.

posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 02:11 PM
reply to post by AshleyD

Ashley you nailed that one.

posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 02:20 PM

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by TruthParadox

First of all, I really don't agree with the whole 'religion is decided by geography' argument. This is a typical Dawkins-style canard. I'm not going to get derailed on this topic but many things will show this line of thinking to be erroneous for the most part. People (world wide) are constantly converting to religions they were not born into or leaving the faith of their parents.

Anyways, I explained this in another thread. There are two ways to approach Jesus:

The easy way: Asking and receiving (child like faith).
The more difficult way: Seeking and finding (investigation upon the evidence).

Both ways are possible but Jesus encourages us to do it the easy way. To trust Him. The best I can explain this would be like a spouse having faith in their spouse's fidelity. When a marriage (or relationship for that matter) is new, you take your significant other's fidelity much on faith. As time progresses and you know your partner more and more and you see that they are honorable, the more you will have faith in their fidelity.

Jesus is faithful. Always. The more intimate I become with Him, the more I realize exactly how faithful He is. He validates His faithfulness to me every single day. This is where the 'sheeple' accusation often comes in but so be it. I'm a sheep for Jesus and feel blessed to be because my shepherd is the good shepherd who laid down His life for this sheep.

We are Biblically encouraged to question, research, dig, review, compare, discern, reason, and come to our own conclusion. All of these concepts are 100% scriptural. But Jesus still says the easy way is child-like belief. And of course that is true and this has been proven to me by my own conversion route. I dug, researched, resisted, read, reviewed, tested, discerned before I took the leap. If I had trusted Jesus in the beginning, my road never would have been so long and hard.

And it had nothing to do with geography.

Just want to say, re: your road being "so long and hard" --- I believe God uses His own way to bring us to the truth; sometimes there are very rough roads to travel, theories that didn't pan out, etc. If it brought you "unquestionably" to the truth in the end, then it was all a part of His master plan. Me? I was tried by fire, and finally understand that:

“ all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 8:35-39

posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 02:44 PM
reply to post by TruthParadox

Again, I refuse to get off topic on the 'faith via geography' argument. It is a canard. Plain and simple. Especially when it comes to Christianity. This is a very in depth theological principle and 'faith via geography' is based on fallible human logic and conclusions. I'm not saying it is not true to an extent. I'm not saying it never happens. I'm saying it is a false conclusion when everything is taken into consideration.

Moving along, I've already said very clearly we are urged to question and research. But we are also urged to have child-like faith. One should not exist without the other. However, in my opinion and what Jesus seems to support, is to have child like faith and THEN question everything. It's the easy way. Doing it the other way like I did is possible and very beneficial (more on this below in my reply to Bombeni), but it is not the easy way.

reply to post by Bombeni

Absolutely. I chose the long hard path (research and then belief) but it helped me immensely, especially in my apologetics ministry. Everything that happens is according to God' plan. It was hard for me but in the end, I can now share my researched-based knowledge with others and help them understand there are facts and evidence that support our beliefs. Like you said, 'trial by fire.' It is the HARD way but even that has an advantage because we can use where we've been to help others who are still at that place where we once were.

It also comes in handy if we are to follow the verse, 'Be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within you.'

posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 03:53 PM

Originally posted by AshleyD
what Jesus seems to support, is to have child like faith and THEN question everything.

this is the crux of the problem. where exactly do you see jesus telling us to be a child ONLY in that way, only in our beliefs towards him? is this assumption of yours based on ANYTHING AT ALL that jesus said or do you conveniently use it to patch over the areas where you aren't doing what jesus advocated?

even the most wrong people sometimes think, at times, that they are absolutely doing the right thing. absolute certainty isn't enough and in fact is quite dangerous to the growth of your faith, particularly it seems in your specific case.

posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Convex
where exactly do you see jesus telling us to be a child ONLY in that way, only in our beliefs towards him?

Because that is the context.

posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 04:16 PM
I just read this on Dave Rabbit's Is Religion Simply A Security Blanket? thread and found it to be truly profound! I thought I would share it on the other spiritual threads I'm following.

Originally posted by plato63
The story, although originating in India, is almost certainly a Buddhist parable, attributed the man - Gautama Buddha himself. The story is of 6 blind men wandering upon an elephant, one finding the tail, another the ear, another the leg, etc. feel exited that they have seen something new (elephants were common in India then
). They chance to meet up with a wise man (a non blind man) or the king and tell him the exiting news. However, they soon find that their individual descriptions do not match with the others, and therefore start fighting among themselves.

You certainly did get the moral of the story though (my respects). If GOD is so "huge", creator of the universe, beyond good or evil, beyond time, etc, how can we as mortals say that we "know" him. It is quite possible that we have touched only a part of HIM. If we accept that arguement then the only way in which we can "know" what GOD looks like is by amalgamating the information from all religions, and yes, even the athiests cause they may have touched a different part of HIM that the others did not. All roads lead to GOD (this idea is borrowed), but can only reach GOD once they have united and become one.

I would encourage all to visit Dave's thread, but PLEASE follow the 'NO FLAMING!' rule!

posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 06:22 PM

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
I just read this on Dave Rabbit's Is Religion Simply A Security Blanket? thread and found it to be truly profound!

isn't this similar to the perennial philosophy attempt to take the base beliefs of all modern religion? interesting, i will check out the thread. thank you.

posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 02:03 PM
This is the thing that tears it. There are present day relatives of jesus. I am shocked that the argument that this person lived has gone on to 50pgs.
The government of Italy has become corrupted that badly that their records are false!? Their memories askewed!? I doubt it. It may have been a period of culture we may not understand but one thing predicates a jesus living and it is a proud government cruxifying one.

posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 02:17 PM
reply to post by rightwingnut

Evidence please. You will notice that word is a prominent one in the title of this thread.

posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 03:23 PM

[edit on 24-9-2008 by HIFIGUY]

posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 03:30 PM
reply to post by HIFIGUY

OK, next time you decide to go off on a rant, please read the post that is being reponded to! I was asking rightwingnut for evidence to the statement he/she made concerning "There are present day relatives of jesus." Gee, now your response seems rather inappropriate, now doesn't it???

posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 04:32 PM

[edit on 24-9-2008 by HIFIGUY]

posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 05:50 PM

Originally posted by rightwingnut
There are present day relatives of jesus.

Please present some evidence of this.

I am shocked that the argument that this person lived has gone on to 50pgs.

But not shocked by the fact that no-one can produce and contemporary historical evidence for Jesus?

The government of Italy has become corrupted that badly that their records are false!?

The Govt of Italy had nothing to do with the alleged crucifixion - you are about 2000 years out of date.

What records?
There are NO records.
Haven't you checked that?
Haven't you read any of this thread?
No-one can produce any "records" of Jesus, because there aren't any.

Their memories askewed!?

WHOSE memories?
Do you think there is someone alive who REMEMBERS Jesus?


posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 04:17 AM
Why is this still being debated? Not just the amount of pages but the fact that it is two completely different threads. Same argument, just different titles...and still going. If there were any evidence of this biblical miracle man, both threads would be over with already. I am amazed that anyone is even trying to argue this point, still.

posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 06:40 AM
As far as im concerned, jesus is a myth thats was created by humans who started talking wild stories, which blended together with older myths..

-This one man... the one and only... born of virgin.... 3 days dead and resurrected etc. They just took "all" the older myths and added properties from them to a man that got stuck with the name jesus..

But he was never real. Its all made up. I think it is because the other myths werent good enough.. or maybe too unrealistic or too much of the good.. So the myth of jesus was created.. All the old myths put into one=Jesus myth.

It's another attemt to create something perfect.. and this one is just better than the ones made earlier.. thats why it's still alive.

And its not like they werent expecting him. The old testament was written from approximately 1400 B.C. to approximately 400 B.C. There it is prophetized that he will come. Then they had hundreds of years to perfect the story of the hero to come.

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 12:05 AM
Where are you escaped from?

You need MUCH love!

posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 02:01 AM
I am intrigued by the number of pages this has gone to!

I think it is prudent to say "make up your own minds people" and believe what you will. Believe what you feel comfortable with.

If you feel better believing he didn't exist so be it and if you believe he did/does exist then so be it.

It should be a personal thing between you and yourself only.

posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 08:52 PM
reply to post by OldThinker

lol this is comical oldthinker uses all of the writers that were debunked as using hearsay and they only mentioning "chestus" which even IF referring to the name CHRIST is not a name but a title meaning the anointed one...commonly used in that day and could be referring to anybody really....

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 01:53 AM
I can't believe this page is almost fifty pages long now.Lol Somewhere near midway through it - I tried to tell everyone how the undeniable truth can be found in living water, but it's like talking to a wall in here. You guys want to know how concepts turn in to realities but if you don't apply the teachings Jesus brought - you'll always live in the dark. In fact you will die in your sins. Why in the world do you think he urged people to "wake up" and "don't fall asleep"?

Most people want enlightenment but many of you are willfully and almost wantingly choosing to suffer spiritual death (to perish).

Anyways, Ashley is correct. One of the keys to opening the gate is to become like a child. In fact he says, that if a person doesn't they can't enter the kingdom. Children have pure intentions, the highest of hopes and a glowing expectancy of what happens next.

The first key is fear of the LORD - it's the beginning of knowledge.

[edit on 26-10-2008 by Myrtales Instinct]

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